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Old 04-12-2018, 11:23 AM   #1
Eric Lewis
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Default Generator Question

All the threads I have read regarding 6 volt positive ground generators talk about adjusting the third brush to increase or decrease voltage output. Looking at he generator installed on my 29 Tudor all three brushes are self adjusting spring/pivot mounted. Does any one recognize this generator and is the output adjustable?



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Old 04-12-2018, 12:15 PM   #2
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: Generator Question

It's a 29 generator, look closer , one brush pivot is mounted on a ring, that's the third brush you move the whole assembly, brush, pivot post, spring
Probably the one in the picture
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Old 04-12-2018, 12:18 PM   #3
Bob C
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Default Re: Generator Question

Also you are adjusting the amperage output not the voltage.

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Old 04-12-2018, 08:32 PM   #4
Bill G
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Default Re: Generator Question

I agree with both answers. I believe the adjustable brush is the one most visible in the picture. Don't let a metal screw driver short out to the generator housing while adjusting it.
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:23 PM   #5
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Generator Question

Moving the brush in the picture is correct, and moving it up lowers the amps. I'd adjust for 2 or 3 amps for average daytime driving. More amps cooks the battery and evaporates the water.
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Old 04-13-2018, 03:40 AM   #6
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I like to drive with my headlights on, I just feel safer.

I have adjusted the generator to give me 2 amps with the lights on.

With the lights off I get + 8-10 amps.
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Old 04-13-2018, 05:26 AM   #7
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Default Re: Generator Question

I guess this is a thread hijack, but, the Fun Projects regulator will eliminate having to adjust for night or day. Set it once and forget about it.

John
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: Generator Question

You may have seen this already...but if not, here you go:

Setting the generator third brush
A) Loosen the generator dust cover bolt and lift off the dust cover.
B) Loosen the third brush nut and shift the third brush assembly counterclockwise (as viewed from the front of the car) as far as possible.
C) Start the car and bring the engine to a high speed that produces the maximum charge from the
generator. Turn on lights and observe an Ammeter reading of 7 to 9 Amps discharge.
D) Advance the third brush setting clockwise (as viewed from the front of the car) until the Ammeter
shows a slight charge of 1/2 to 1 Amp with engine at this same high speed. The generator is now
putting out 8 to 11 Amps. This should be the correct setting for the third brush.
Do not advance the third brush further or the setting will be too high! - The correct setting will occur with the thirdbrush advanced only slightly further than the center of its mechanical adjustment range. The third brush must notbe advanced further.


E) With engine still at high speed turn off lights and observe that the charge rate jumps to 8 to 12 Amps where the charge rate will remain until the battery reaches full charge. It may take a few seconds, a few minutes, or a few hours for the battery to reach full charge. When the battery is nearing full charge, the charging rate will taper off until only 1 to 4 Amps of charge current remain.
Make certain that the battery charge rate does not exceed 15 Amps during this charge time
.
A lower setting of 10 to 12 Amps is best and will result in longer generator life. If charge rate is ever allowed to exceed 15 Amps, generator damage will result. Do not attempt to readjust the third brush once the regulator has begun to taper the charge since the regulator will tend to compensate for the adjustment and it is very easy to advance the third brush too far which will result in generator or voltage regulator failure.
F) Tighten the third brush nut.
G) Check proper operation by idling the engine with lights off and then quickly increasing engine
speed. The Ammeter should show a momentary high charge rate (8 to 12 Amps) then regulator action should be observed by a noticeable decrease in charge rate.
H) Install the generator dust cover and tighten the dust cover bolt.


IMPORTANT!
- A final check must be made after 24 hours of no operation of car or battery by starting the car with the starter and bringing the engine immediately to high speed. With all lights off the Ammeter reading should be at or below 15 Amps. If higher than 15 Amps, reduce the third brush setting immediately! This is the maximum reading you should ever see and it will soon taper off once the battery comes up to charge. Thereafter the peak reading will be in the 8 to 12 Amp range. This first reading is higher right after the car is first started because the battery voltage is lowest since the battery has not been charged for 24 hours.
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:34 PM   #9
Eric Lewis
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Default Re: Generator Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ View Post
It's a 29 generator, look closer , one brush pivot is mounted on a ring, that's the third brush you move the whole assembly, brush, pivot post, spring
Probably the one in the picture
Thank You Kurt in NJ,
You nailed it, finally got back to the ole girl today and was able to pivot the "third brush' the one in the picture, and get the amperage to +4 amps with the lights on. Would not have known this was the brush to pivot with out your help.
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Old 04-17-2018, 07:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Generator Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by burner31 View Post
You may have seen this already...but if not, here you go:

Setting the generator third brush
A) Loosen the generator dust cover bolt and lift off the dust cover.
B) Loosen the third brush nut and shift the third brush assembly counterclockwise (as viewed from the front of the car) as far as possible.
C) Start the car and bring the engine to a high speed that produces the maximum charge from the
generator. Turn on lights and observe an Ammeter reading of 7 to 9 Amps discharge.
D) Advance the third brush setting clockwise (as viewed from the front of the car) until the Ammeter
shows a slight charge of 1/2 to 1 Amp with engine at this same high speed. The generator is now
putting out 8 to 11 Amps. This should be the correct setting for the third brush.
Do not advance the third brush further or the setting will be too high! - The correct setting will occur with the thirdbrush advanced only slightly further than the center of its mechanical adjustment range. The third brush must notbe advanced further.


E) With engine still at high speed turn off lights and observe that the charge rate jumps to 8 to 12 Amps where the charge rate will remain until the battery reaches full charge. It may take a few seconds, a few minutes, or a few hours for the battery to reach full charge. When the battery is nearing full charge, the charging rate will taper off until only 1 to 4 Amps of charge current remain.
Make certain that the battery charge rate does not exceed 15 Amps during this charge time
.
A lower setting of 10 to 12 Amps is best and will result in longer generator life. If charge rate is ever allowed to exceed 15 Amps, generator damage will result. Do not attempt to readjust the third brush once the regulator has begun to taper the charge since the regulator will tend to compensate for the adjustment and it is very easy to advance the third brush too far which will result in generator or voltage regulator failure.
F) Tighten the third brush nut.
G) Check proper operation by idling the engine with lights off and then quickly increasing engine
speed. The Ammeter should show a momentary high charge rate (8 to 12 Amps) then regulator action should be observed by a noticeable decrease in charge rate.
H) Install the generator dust cover and tighten the dust cover bolt.


IMPORTANT!
- A final check must be made after 24 hours of no operation of car or battery by starting the car with the starter and bringing the engine immediately to high speed. With all lights off the Ammeter reading should be at or below 15 Amps. If higher than 15 Amps, reduce the third brush setting immediately! This is the maximum reading you should ever see and it will soon taper off once the battery comes up to charge. Thereafter the peak reading will be in the 8 to 12 Amp range. This first reading is higher right after the car is first started because the battery voltage is lowest since the battery has not been charged for 24 hours.
Thank You burner31,
You have given me a lot of detailed information. certainly gives me a lot more to be aware of.
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Old 04-18-2018, 04:54 AM   #11
Growley bear
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Default Re: Generator Question

The third brush controls the field resistance. Move brush down and more resistance causes an increase the charging amps. Move the brush up and the field resistance is reduced there by decreasing the charge amp rate.
This has to be done manually and I am confused at how the charge rate will automatically drop off after a few minutes. The cut out is only an electro magnetic switch which opens when the generator is not in service; not a voltage regulator. Once the ampere charge rate is set, it can only be changed manually.
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Growley bear View Post
The third brush controls the field resistance. Move brush down and more resistance causes an increase the charging amps. Move the brush up and the field resistance is reduced there by decreasing the charge amp rate.
This has to be done manually and I am confused at how the charge rate will automatically drop off after a few minutes. The cut out is only an electro magnetic switch which opens when the generator is not in service; not a voltage regulator. Once the ampere charge rate is set, it can only be changed manually.
Correct, the amperage will not change so there will be overcharge with the lights off. This is the reason I recommend a regulator, several are sold, but the Fun Projects is the only one that has an external case like the original cut out that I am aware of. (no commision coming here)

John
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:45 AM   #13
Mike V. Florida
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Default Re: Generator Question

Here is a picture of a 30 end plate. The top brush is the movable one. Yours may not move because of rust and gunk.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Generator End Plate 30.jpg (75.0 KB, 120 views)
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:40 PM   #14
Keith True
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Default Re: Generator Question

Keith,you are reading instructions on how to set the brush using John Regans Funprojects REGULATOR,not the stock cutout.I thought what you published looked familiar,I have the same copy sitting in front of me.I had been emailing a fellow how to set his new regulator up,he had lost his instructions so I had mine stuck under my keyboard.
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith True View Post
Keith,you are reading instructions on how to set the brush using John Regans Funprojects REGULATOR,not the stock cutout.I thought what you published looked familiar,I have the same copy sitting in front of me.I had been emailing a fellow how to set his new regulator up,he had lost his instructions so I had mine stuck under my keyboard.
Ok, after i copied all that to take out to the garage, anyone care to tell me how to adjust with a stock cutout?
thanks
Dick
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:52 AM   #16
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Default Re: Generator Question

Unless someone in the past installed a Model T generator there is no nut to loosen. Yes there was a kit to convert a Model T gen so it could be used on an A.

The 3rd brush is on a slip ring. Original cutout or modern style, they are adjusted the same by moving the 3rd brush and reading the meter. The engine should be running at about the same RPM as it would be in 3rd to = about 20 MPH. That is approx the speed the KR Wilson machine would be spinning when doing service work on generators.
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Old 08-28-2018, 01:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: Generator Question

See my picture that Mike posted in #13. Moving the middle adjustable brush up lowers the output. When you move it up, you move it closer to the ground brush, so this lowers the voltage sent to the field windings.
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Old 08-28-2018, 10:30 PM   #18
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When you move the adjustable brush up, this lowers the amps sent to the windings and reduces the rate of charge shown on the ammeter .
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Old 08-29-2018, 12:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2831A’s View Post
This was stated in post #17. Did you read that one?
You must think that you are the board police . Yes, I read post number 17 !!! I was only pointing out a simple mistake . AMPS are sent to the fields , not volts. . If you knew anything about generators you would have caught this !!!!!!! To explain this in a way that you might ( probably not ) understand , The generator charges the battery in amps . The battery that the generator charges controls what voltage the system actually is . They guy that made post # 17 knows this fact , it was a simple mistake . There is so much confusion about generators and the difference in volts and amps and how they actually work, I thought that I would point out this fact again !
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Old 08-29-2018, 04:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Generator Question

Thank you Tom & Purdy.

Your simple, clear explanations of the voltage-amperage-third brush relationship is much clearer now.
Kind regards,
geary
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