This is a site for stock restoration.

[Ed]

Originally Posted by Ryan
This site should, in fact, focus on the stock and pure restoration. And we try to... However, there are sidebars... And I'm fine with that. So long as these sidebars don't run off the purists.



Well I guess I will be the first to be run off! I don't have patience for these rediculious threads any longer. Between the personal attacks and the constant bickering in threads like this I have had enough. Good by.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

You missed it;

This is from the owner of this site from the other day,

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showpo...8&postcount=30

So did a few others, Including Joe K and the WANT to be COMEDIAN, Bill W.

[todd3131]

I have been a restorer of all types of cars for over forty years, and model a fords in particular. In my model a restorations have been pure down to the nuts and bolts, I wouldn't have one that isn't. Having said that there are many modifications that make a model a, a better tour car, such as the mentioned brakes , 16 inch wheels, 12volt systems with alternator and many many more. I personaly wouldn't modify but I have many friends who have done one or another and I have helped them. I like the hamb website for its own value but if someone needs advice on a specific modification it is better to get it from a MODEL A Guy than a hotrodder. If this site is about only building show cars that can be judged then I am in the wrong group the diversity is what brings me back not a narrow focus on 100 point cars.

[stallerl]

Not long ago I owned 2 1958 Edsels. (yeah, I know...) One I was completing a body off restoration and the other was a daily driver. Like Ford Barn there was a website/chat site where one can obtain information or ask questions pertaining to Edsel cars. Not long after it was established some of the members who wanted everyone to know they know everything there is to know about the cars started to voice their opinions about the way it was done at the factory and that's the ONLY way these cars should be. Well, just like those that thought 100% original is the only way the cars should be there was a few that thought that owning the car was for one's enjoyment and if he/she felt that by completing a modification that would lend either comfort or additional safety that it should be acceptable. The arguments grew to the point that finally one of the members left the established chat site and started his own, strictly for the restoration and preservation of the Edsel cars. Fine and dandy but that left the users, as I was, checking 2 sites to see if there was an entry or information to the question I may of had. Periodically someone would post a question that the monitor would think was not suitable for that particular site and the question was bounced and the writer was informed that his question doesn't belong on that site. Over time we lost some great resources and very knowable members due to comments made by others without regard to someone else's needs or opinion or feelings.
The large majority of us that own Model A's own them as our hobby not for business purposes. With that, are cars hold special meaning to us and having the opportunity to work on them isn't just to get grease under our nails it's therapy from today's daily grind, or in some cases prevents loneliness. Working on these pieces of American history is what we do. The information that I've obtained from this site is priceless. Really! Let's not have some of our more experienced knowledgeable member leave because someone wants to put a widget on HIS car that didn't come that way from the factory. I for one have seen many Model A's at shows that had more accessories on them then a South American Taxi cab! But was the owner proud of his car, you bet he was. Like the guy in Los Angeles said a few years ago... "Can't we all just get along?" Believe me the Rat Rodders and alike do not read our messages as they are not interested in restoring or maintaining 'stock' cars. As most of us don't go to their sites to obtain information. I really don't think that they will one day infiltrate our group and turn it into a chop, channel and cut forum. As I mentioned, the value of the experience and knowledge here is priceless. Please, when someone asks a question that might have previously addressed or that might be a bit basic for some of you please have patients. If you have nothing constructive and helpful to provide how about just passing it up. I for one look forward to checking this site numerous times a day to see what I can learn. Please, let's respect each others wants and needs. Most of us are in this for fun. Please, let's keep it that way. Thanks...

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

This is getting absolutely crazy. If someone feels they need to leave, ...then leave. If they want to stay, ...then stay!! This site is NOT about building "show" cars, --it is about 'restoration'.

What the difference is some folks feel they continually need to justify to others in this thread why we should be discussing the merits of modifying or modernizing the Model-A on this forum. What some of us are trying to say is NO ONE IS DISAGREEING about some modifications HOWEVER the difference is the owner of this forum has asked for us to discuss Restoration --NOT Modifying or Modernizing. Ryan is NOT saying these "mods" are wrong to do, however he has asked repeatedly that we keep the topics on this forum solely to promoting "Restoration" of Model-A's as they were originally manufactured. Over and over we have discussed what the definition of Restoration is, ...but converting to a braking system that was manufactured years later leans more towards modifying or modernizing than it does restoring.

.

[todd3131]

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Brent my question is where do you draw the line? I had a question about replacing my original sector gear, one of the solutions was to replace the bushings with roller bearings, I didn't even know that was possible then others chimed in and said that there are issues and it wasn't a good idea for reasons they listed and I decided to leave it original for that reason, and having a group of A guys to guide me invaluable and not easily available on other sites. Now this is a very clear modification as is the modern water pump seals and many others which the juice brakes fall into. If I was asking how to put disk brakes on my a or power boosters I would agree that they don't belong but putting juice of a 48 or older ford is a accepted historic modification. So my question where is the line?

[miss victoria]

Why not add a modified section to the forums, then you could keep everyone happy?

[Hicktick]

I went back and reread the closed thread .

It was doing fine untill a poster tried to sell something .

Same poster stated that the purists should start their own forum.

Owner was reminding posters that this is for stock restoration .

Lots of posters have not read the rules of forum .

Case closed........

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by miss victoria

Why not add a modified section to the forums, then you could keep everyone happy?

This is not our decision!! The owner of this website has clearly stated what his desire is with this forum. It is kinda like you coming to visit at my house and you want to drink a beer. I ask that we don't drink and folks do it anyway citing excuses like "I won't get drunk", or "I'll do it where no one is looking".


Todd, I am not the one drawing the line, ...Ryan is!! This discussion really should not be what we feel is historically acceptable. Again, this site is supposed to be reserved for Model-A Restoration topics with some small side-bars of topic allowed. HAMB is a site that covers --and promotes "historical modifications" extremely well. Hicktick makes very valid points in his post above.

[Mitch//pa]

stock restoration with sidebars. ""quote ryan"" i consider sidebars, heads, o/d's, elctric fuel shutoff's, steering box mods, insert bearings, etc,etc
i think the site has been pretty much going along like that from the begining except for a newbie now and then that gets a little lost up.

[todd3131]

Originally Posted by Hicktick

I went back and reread the closed thread .

It was doing fine untill a poster tried to sell something .

Same poster stated that the purists should start their own forum.

Owner was reminding posters that this is for stock restoration .

Lots of posters have not read the rules of forum .

Case closed........

I was looking for the one you mentioned earlier and couldn't find it can you let me know where to find it

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by todd3131

I was looking for the one you mentioned earlier and couldn't find it can you let me know where to find it

http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96286

[todd3131]

Brent drawing the line was not specifically aimed at you but more as a community question which there has been already a reply. The owner of the site has general rules for the site but this being a chat room we still have the ability to control some of the subject matter within the general topic guidelines. There was a post about a man in France creating a customs out of a Citroen which was pretty amazing hamb post and I appreciate that it was posted here, because I never would have seen it, was this an off topic post? Probably at best gray area. How far do we push it before we lose the model a specific room that I enjoy also , I don't know but I welcome the discussion.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

stock restoration with sidebars. ""quote ryan"" i consider sidebars, heads, o/d's, elctric fuel shutoff's, steering box mods, insert bearings, etc,etc
i think the site has been pretty much going along like that from the begining except for a newbie now and then that gets a little lost up.

I would agree with that. Again, this original poster stated he wanted to convert his brakes, --not repair them. Then he stated he was doing it for "safety". Then I take it he felt the other thread was unfairly locked down by Ryan so he starts this one for some reason.

Todd, this really isn't my call to say where the line is drawn, ...and Ryan has given a bunch of latitude towards off-topic threads. Personally, I feel the line is drawn around the word Restoration. Restoration is typically defined as "returning something to its former state as originally manufactured or produced". Granted many people do not achieve total success at 100% as it was originally manufactured however that should be a target or goal if we are to say a vehicle has been Restored. Installing hydraulic brakes, or 5 speed transmissions,aftermarket steering boxes, or A/C does not fit within the parameters of the definition of Restoration. I'm not saying those are bad things, however those do not fit the definition of the word Restoration which is what we have been asked to discuss here.

[just plain bill]

I enjoy reading the posts in this thread, the pros and cons over just what is acceptable and what is not in the minds of the posters. And when reading this particular thread gets boring I can always depend on a good ole discussion of the pros and cons of Marvel Mystery oil, or 600 weight in the steering box.

Then I go to the HAMB and I see typical A Ford Barn questions asked there by first time owners, some of which go unanswered as most who post there are hot rodders that never owned a box stock A and they would think a "high point car" must be adorned with some tall sharp things

I just recently posted the results of some of my advance modifications to the Model B distributor on the HAMB and not here because I felt some would not appreciate my tinkering with a distributor and burst out with insults and recriminations while directing me to the HAMB, although it is not an A item and most of the posters over there don't care because it is old anyway.

I feel I should correct something, most of the insults here are usually one on one between two people who disagree on some minor item or thought but they are fun to read!

"Purist" in the World Book Dictionary, a person who is very careful, or too careful about purity in language, art, style, and usage. This definition would, to most, seem to be in regards to the written word but I think could apply here

[todd3131]

Brent mitch sent me the link to the thread and it is pretty obvious why it went south, I see why he stepped in and said what he did. Makes sense to me.

I do think that when a ford guy has any question they should be able to ask,for example there was a question from a ford guy who just inherited a 490 Chevy with no idea where to go hour how to fix something , I referred him to the vcca site where they have a specific chat room for 490, and that was the end. The point being the knowled base is so great here that an occasional semi off topic question is acceptable. I certainly don't want to see topics about how to get a 29roadster body to fit on a set of deuce rails.

[Garage Dog]

Something I think you all need to keep in mind. THIS IS SUPOSED TO BE ABOUT HAVING FUN AND ENJOYING THE MODEL A <<<>>> NOT PICKERING. I have not been by here for a while because of it. LIGHTEN UP A BIT.

Let's just enjoy what we like and if we don't like it, just move on, don't insult someone just because you can hide behind your computer screen.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

I agree with Stallerl in Post #84. He said it like it is for me.

I am too old and cheap to do any "restorations" anymore. I am not purist in anything. I read just about everything I can. Except instruction manuals, of course. I am a man after all. And I drink beer.
So I am not going to be able to "just not read" a particular post. Just the way I am.

Brent said in Post #85 that Ryan "has asked repeatedly that we keep the topics on this forum solely to promoting "Restoration" of Model-A's as they were originally manufactured."

So what are some of the other forums I can go to? Seriously.
Ahooga gets too political, H.A.M.B gets too foul. What else is out there that has a lot of posters with all kinds of info like Fordbarn has? If Fordbarn is solely for restoration, then there is a big gap in available information for people like me who are in between the purist and the wild-eyed radical.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Hicktick

I went back and reread the closed thread .

It was doing fine untill a poster tried to sell something .

Same poster stated that the purists should start their own forum.

Owner was reminding posters that this is for stock restoration .

Lots of posters have not read the rules of forum .

Case closed........

The thread was NOT doing fine. LINK to THREAD

Here's how I saw it:
In post #8 I stated that juice brakes were a modification, not restoration. JORDAN immediately quoted me and began his 'defense' for modifications.

Later, MISS VICTORIA jumped on me for defending the original stock mechanical brakes and stated "these purest should start there own site" and inferred I was trashing him by supporting restoration over modification. Miss victoria had already posted a link to a hot rod site in this thread and had already posted a pure sales plug, with price, for modification stuff he sells.

Those who support Ryan's purpose for this site were put on the defensive by miss victoria 's "these purest should start there own site" statement.

Support for Ryan's purpose, stock restoration, ensued.

I had read lots of miss v's previous thread posts and many were peppered with blatant advertising, complete with prices and shipping. I never said anything previously.

I took deference to his "do not trash me" statement in response to my supporting mechanical brakes while he was obviously trying to sell his juice brake modification stuff. I called it for what it was.

Someone (not me) must have clicked "Report" and notified Ryan, who then again stated his mission for Fordbarn and closed the thread.

That's how I read it. Everything was NOT doing fine "untill a poster tried to sell something ."

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Garage Dog

Something I think you all need to keep in mind. THIS IS SUPOSED TO BE ABOUT HAVING FUN AND ENJOYING THE MODEL A <<<>>> NOT PICKERING. I have not been by here for a while because of it. LIGHTEN UP A BIT.

Let's just enjoy what we like and if we don't like it, just move on, don't insult someone just because you can hide behind your computer screen.

I agree.

I am a purist of sorts, but I'm willing to compromise for good reason. On the other hand I respect the fine pointers for holding the line. On the third hand I admire some of the work the HAMB types have done. For both of these a technical challenge overcome is well, a technical challenge overcome - and something worthy of respect on each their own merits.

If the owner of the forum draws the discussion noose too tight, he runs the risk of having a VERY small board.

And some in being too strong, leave themselves open to ridicule. Mostly of a good natured sort, but since it's people doing the ridicule, occasionally maliciously. This I try not to do or encourage since the object is to HAVE FUN (did somebody say that?) And fun however it comes.

And some, in being too loose, run the risk of being considered not serious. A fluff. An automotive non-sequitur of sorts. I fear for this myself since hopefully I range widely in my board interests.

The board needs a full range of Model A expression. I've done my part with a few newbies - and as the mood strikes, I will probably do it again. Likewise, someone may have a better solution to an issue that I seemingly have overcome - but there is ALWAYS a better way and I'm willing to listen.

And like many technical boards, we tend to sometimes to be "my way the best way." And some don't have the self assurance to walk away from the argument this presents and say to themselves "Maybe."

I've drawn my party parallel. It's Sunday afternoon and there is no football game.

And it's too cold to work out in the Garage.

So who brought the popcorn?

Joe K