The Ford Barn

jb-ob · 01-26-2018, 08:56 PM

Long before wooden planks, was the 'Pedatrol'

"Pedal Depressor Is Useful Tool"

"A new type of 'quick action' pedal depressor is a device for use when equalizing and adjusting the Ford four-wheel brakes. Not only does it prevent the loss of time which occurs when an extra mechanic is called from other work to hold the brake pedal depressed while the brakes are being adjusted; but it insures much more accurate work as the tool holds the pedal depressed steadily at an exact distance, which no mechanic is apt to do."

"Peters & Russell, Inc. of Springfield, Ohio, the markers of the Pedatrol, as the new pedal depressor is called, have worked out a new method of equalizing and adjusting the brakes which they call the Pedatrol method."

'Ford Dealer & Service Field, 1928"

The photo shows a ratcheting design, with one end on the brake pedal and the other on the lower seat bracket or riser. ( Also in the photo is the gear shifter lifted and pulled out of it's usual position.)

Tom Wesenberg · 01-27-2018, 08:03 AM

I'm pretty sure we are all going to crash, burn, and die, unless we all change to hydraulic brakes.

Flathead · 01-27-2018, 10:36 AM

Not just hydraulic brakes but hydraulic DISC brakes with a dual master cylinder. Anything less than that is a certain death trap according to today's "experts". I saw a t-shirt that said "I'm a six volt guy living in a twelve volt world" think about that.

Keith True · 01-27-2018, 10:51 AM

I do have to say that the board way of adjustment has made me quite a little bit of money.The best one was a 30 Fordor with over $2000.of parts in the new brake system.He had adjusted it right to a T with that board.He was a little put out with me because I kept telling him to get that stupid board out of my face.He told me over and over again that I HAD to us it to adjust the brakes. adjusted it the way it was supposed to be done when it was built,and I told him to take it for a ride.He never came back that day.His buddy told me he was mad because some 60 year old kid had fixed his brakes in 35 minutes and he had rassled with them for months.When he did show up a week later to pay me he never asked for his board,and I didn't bring it up.It is still in the shop.

Purdy Swoft · 01-27-2018, 12:10 PM

I mostly agree with post 9 and 24 . Don't try to change the configuration of the system . Set the brakes up as detailed in the service bulletins . There is no mention of an adjustment board in the service bulletins . Correctly setting up the pedal rod and service brake cross shaft with the pedal at the top of its travel is very important. Then remove all slack from the service brake rods and the brakes will be ready to activate with the slightest touch of the pedal .

As for floaters . Floaters help to center the shoes to the drum . Complete contact of the shoes to the drum when the brakes are applied is important . The shoes have to be at least pretty close to centered after installing new lining or the drums won't fit over the shoes . Modern cars don't have this problem because the brakes are full floating .

Cast iron drums are one of the best improvements to avoid brake fade . Flathead teds square centering pins can help center the brakes without the need to build up or replace the brake tracks . The square pins have 4 different height settings .

CWPASADENA · 01-28-2018, 01:17 AM

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As originally designed, Our Model A's had apx 40% of the total braking on the front and apx. 60% on the rears. This was a definite improvement over the Model T which only had rear wheel brakes. Thru the 1930's, as brake dynamics became better understood, Ford changed the design of the brakes on the vehicles they manufactured where the fronts did more braking than the rears. Ideally, the bias of a Model A Ford should be some where in the order of 60-70% front and 30-40% rear.

To improve braking on out cars, more brakes should be added to the front without reducing rear braking effort.

Floating wedges will add some brake effort to the front which is a step in the right direction. These have been around for almost as long as our Model A's have. They are very easy to install and there is definitely an improvement with their use.

Increase the length of the front levers will also add brakes to the front. A few of us are doing this with very good results. 50% longer levers and Floating Wedges will definitely add brakes to the front and change the bias closer to where it should be where more braking is on the front. To my knowledge, you would have to make your own longer levers as I do not know of anyone manufacturing them.

Installing Ted's Floaters to the fronts is another way to add more brakes being to the front. However, it is absolutely imperative that the front brakes be properly set to get all the benefits from Ted's Floaters. There is very little latitude in the available adjustment with Ted's Floaters and if everything is not absolutely correct, there will be little if any improvement.

Replacing the front brakes with 1932-'34 (12 in. dia.) front brakes is also a way to add more braking to the front. This is a direct bolt on installation that does not require any modification. The larger '32-34 brakes along with floating wedges will result in a very good system with overall braking biased close to where it should be.

Just keep in mind, which ever modifications you may chose, the whole brake system must be in good condition in order to realize the potential improvement. Trying to add fixes to a worn out system will result in not little if any overall improvement.

As a Mechanical Engineer with many years in the automotive industry and a Road Race Car designer, builder and driver, it is common knowledge that a front engine automobile needs to have the braking bias designed so more braking is on the front and less on the rear. Also, we know that you do not want the rear brakes to lock up before the fronts. When this happens, the vehicle has the tendency to very quickly swap ends. That is why, race cars often have an adjustable brake bias control where the driver can change the brake bias depending on track conditions, fuel load etc, but the driver never wants the brakes biased where the rears to lock up first.

NOW PLEASE UNDERSTAND, These comments are based on my education and experience and I do not expect anyone to agree with me. Every one must proceed in a direction they feel right for them.

Chris W.

Synchro909 · 01-28-2018, 06:11 AM

CWPASADENA, you echo my thoughts exactly. Those who want to leave their car "as Henry made it" are quite welcome to do so. I, on the other hand place greater importance on not only my own safety but that of my passengers and other road users.the judges
I don't know how judges would handle a car with say, longer levers on the front over there but judges I know here would regard them as a desirable safety measure and not deduct points. Just like turning indicators don't cost points or a second tail light or.....or......

BILL WILLIAMSON · 01-28-2018, 08:00 AM

Then WHY was it common practice, for EONS, to set all the system in PERFECT SYNCHRONIZATION & all brakes APPLYING at the same time????
Weight transfer WILL cause the REAR brakes to skid, FIRST!!!
I "think" I just heard Chief (RIP) LAFFIN' about the BOARD!!!
Bill Practical

WHN · 01-28-2018, 08:45 AM

As always, some great comments.

But please keep in mind the following.

Thinking has changed on braking a lot in the last 90 years. Also tires, suspension, shocks, springs, weight distribution, steering control, on and on.

A Model A Ford that is mechanically correct. Brakes, front end, springs, shocks, steering, will handle very well.

Is it the right car to run on Interstate 95 running through Connecticut with traffic doing 75 to 80 mph. NO!

I would not want to lock up the front brakes on our Model A before the rear brakes. This is not a race car. Car was not set up for that type of braking. The buckboard suspension could bring the rear end right around.

I would hope anyone who changed braking system would inform new owner when selling of what had been done. Some of us might not see that as an up grade. Enjoy.

CWPASADENA · 01-28-2018, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHN

As always, some great comments.

But please keep in mind the following.

Thinking has changed on braking a lot in the last 90 years. Also tires, suspension, shocks, springs, weight distribution, steering control, on and on.

A Model A Ford that is mechanically correct. Brakes, front end, springs, shocks, steering, will handle very well.

Is it the right car to run on Interstate 95 running through Connecticut with traffic doing 75 to 80 mph. NO!

I would not want to lock up the front brakes on our Model A before the rear brakes. This is not a race car. Car was not set up for that type of braking. The buckboard suspension could bring the rear end right around.

I would hope anyone who changed braking system would inform new owner when selling of what had been done. Some of us might not see that as an up grade. Enjoy.

You are correct to say that the Model A is not a race car but the same principals that apply to designing brakes for a race car also apply to road cars. For a front engine car, you need more brakes on the front than the rear. Ford also figured this out in the thirties when they designed their cars with more bias to the front. This was still at the time when the new Fords in the later thirties still had "buggy springs", straight axles and antiquated lever shocks.

The Model A brake system was just the first step for Ford in the evolution of designing 4 wheel brake systems for their cars. In the perusing years Ford added more front brakes until the bias was more to the front.

Better brakes on our Model A's are not useful only for highway driving but also around town when it is necessary to make an emergency stop when someone turns in front of you or a small child runs out in the road in front of you.

I feel my cars with improved front brakes are a lot safer to drive than any "stock" Model A with properly restored non modified brakes. More than once, I have found myself in a n emergency situation where a vehicle pulled out in front of me from a side street and I was glad I had improved brakes that allowed me to stop without being involved in a collision.

If the Model A brakes were perfect as designed, why did Ford just a few years later change the design of their brakes to more front bias, and why did aftermarket manufacturers make kits to improve front braking shorty after the first Model A's were sold?

Again, I am not saying than anyone should modify their brakes, that is up to the individual owner. I am saying, "if you want better brakes on your Model A, add more brakes to the front", this is a definite improvement.

Again, this is just my opinion, others may have a different opinion which is fine with me.

Chris W.

WHN · 01-28-2018, 01:58 PM

Chris:

You are correct in that Ford did change their braking in the years following the Model A.

They also changed the size of the tires, steering, and how the car sat.

I am not saying that the Stock brake system from the factory is the best you can get. I am saying that once you lock up the rear wheels, the fronts, if adjusted properly, will lock up shortly after. Narrow tires, not much tire/ground surface. Wheels not turning, what more can you do.

On a light, high center of gravity car, with narrow tires. Lock up the front tires, and watch what happens to the rear end. Also the center of gravity will shift giving even less weight on the rear wheels.

In almost 60 years of driving these cars I have only locked up all four wheels a couple of times. Car did not move off track, but did skid further than I would have liked. “Tires”.

Coming up with new ideas is what we pay you engineers to do. Keep the ideas coming.

01-26-2018, 08:56 PM	#21
jb-ob Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 640	Re: Brakes Long before wooden planks, was the 'Pedatrol' "Pedal Depressor Is Useful Tool" "A new type of 'quick action' pedal depressor is a device for use when equalizing and adjusting the Ford four-wheel brakes. Not only does it prevent the loss of time which occurs when an extra mechanic is called from other work to hold the brake pedal depressed while the brakes are being adjusted; but it insures much more accurate work as the tool holds the pedal depressed steadily at an exact distance, which no mechanic is apt to do." "Peters & Russell, Inc. of Springfield, Ohio, the markers of the Pedatrol, as the new pedal depressor is called, have worked out a new method of equalizing and adjusting the brakes which they call the Pedatrol method." 'Ford Dealer & Service Field, 1928" The photo shows a ratcheting design, with one end on the brake pedal and the other on the lower seat bracket or riser. ( Also in the photo is the gear shifter lifted and pulled out of it's usual position.)

01-27-2018, 08:03 AM	#22
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Brakes I'm pretty sure we are all going to crash, burn, and die, unless we all change to hydraulic brakes.

01-27-2018, 10:36 AM	#23
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,498	Re: Brakes Not just hydraulic brakes but hydraulic DISC brakes with a dual master cylinder. Anything less than that is a certain death trap according to today's "experts". I saw a t-shirt that said "I'm a six volt guy living in a twelve volt world" think about that.

01-27-2018, 10:51 AM	#24
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,987	Re: Brakes I do have to say that the board way of adjustment has made me quite a little bit of money.The best one was a 30 Fordor with over $2000.of parts in the new brake system.He had adjusted it right to a T with that board.He was a little put out with me because I kept telling him to get that stupid board out of my face.He told me over and over again that I HAD to us it to adjust the brakes. adjusted it the way it was supposed to be done when it was built,and I told him to take it for a ride.He never came back that day.His buddy told me he was mad because some 60 year old kid had fixed his brakes in 35 minutes and he had rassled with them for months.When he did show up a week later to pay me he never asked for his board,and I didn't bring it up.It is still in the shop.

01-27-2018, 12:10 PM	#25
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Brakes I mostly agree with post 9 and 24 . Don't try to change the configuration of the system . Set the brakes up as detailed in the service bulletins . There is no mention of an adjustment board in the service bulletins . Correctly setting up the pedal rod and service brake cross shaft with the pedal at the top of its travel is very important. Then remove all slack from the service brake rods and the brakes will be ready to activate with the slightest touch of the pedal . As for floaters . Floaters help to center the shoes to the drum . Complete contact of the shoes to the drum when the brakes are applied is important . The shoes have to be at least pretty close to centered after installing new lining or the drums won't fit over the shoes . Modern cars don't have this problem because the brakes are full floating . Cast iron drums are one of the best improvements to avoid brake fade . Flathead teds square centering pins can help center the brakes without the need to build up or replace the brake tracks . The square pins have 4 different height settings .

01-28-2018, 01:17 AM	#26
CWPASADENA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: PASADENA, CA Posts: 1,884	Re: Brakes Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) As originally designed, Our Model A's had apx 40% of the total braking on the front and apx. 60% on the rears. This was a definite improvement over the Model T which only had rear wheel brakes. Thru the 1930's, as brake dynamics became better understood, Ford changed the design of the brakes on the vehicles they manufactured where the fronts did more braking than the rears. Ideally, the bias of a Model A Ford should be some where in the order of 60-70% front and 30-40% rear. To improve braking on out cars, more brakes should be added to the front without reducing rear braking effort. Floating wedges will add some brake effort to the front which is a step in the right direction. These have been around for almost as long as our Model A's have. They are very easy to install and there is definitely an improvement with their use. Increase the length of the front levers will also add brakes to the front. A few of us are doing this with very good results. 50% longer levers and Floating Wedges will definitely add brakes to the front and change the bias closer to where it should be where more braking is on the front. To my knowledge, you would have to make your own longer levers as I do not know of anyone manufacturing them. Installing Ted's Floaters to the fronts is another way to add more brakes being to the front. However, it is absolutely imperative that the front brakes be properly set to get all the benefits from Ted's Floaters. There is very little latitude in the available adjustment with Ted's Floaters and if everything is not absolutely correct, there will be little if any improvement. Replacing the front brakes with 1932-'34 (12 in. dia.) front brakes is also a way to add more braking to the front. This is a direct bolt on installation that does not require any modification. The larger '32-34 brakes along with floating wedges will result in a very good system with overall braking biased close to where it should be. Just keep in mind, which ever modifications you may chose, the whole brake system must be in good condition in order to realize the potential improvement. Trying to add fixes to a worn out system will result in not little if any overall improvement. As a Mechanical Engineer with many years in the automotive industry and a Road Race Car designer, builder and driver, it is common knowledge that a front engine automobile needs to have the braking bias designed so more braking is on the front and less on the rear. Also, we know that you do not want the rear brakes to lock up before the fronts. When this happens, the vehicle has the tendency to very quickly swap ends. That is why, race cars often have an adjustable brake bias control where the driver can change the brake bias depending on track conditions, fuel load etc, but the driver never wants the brakes biased where the rears to lock up first. NOW PLEASE UNDERSTAND, These comments are based on my education and experience and I do not expect anyone to agree with me. Every one must proceed in a direction they feel right for them. Chris W.

01-28-2018, 06:11 AM	#27
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Brakes CWPASADENA, you echo my thoughts exactly. Those who want to leave their car "as Henry made it" are quite welcome to do so. I, on the other hand place greater importance on not only my own safety but that of my passengers and other road users.the judges I don't know how judges would handle a car with say, longer levers on the front over there but judges I know here would regard them as a desirable safety measure and not deduct points. Just like turning indicators don't cost points or a second tail light or.....or...... __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

01-28-2018, 08:00 AM	#28
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Brakes Then WHY was it common practice, for EONS, to set all the system in PERFECT SYNCHRONIZATION & all brakes APPLYING at the same time???? Weight transfer WILL cause the REAR brakes to skid, FIRST!!! I "think" I just heard Chief (RIP) LAFFIN' about the BOARD!!! Bill Practical __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF" Last edited by BILL WILLIAMSON; 01-28-2018 at 08:05 AM.

01-28-2018, 08:45 AM	#29
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,823	Re: Brakes As always, some great comments. But please keep in mind the following. Thinking has changed on braking a lot in the last 90 years. Also tires, suspension, shocks, springs, weight distribution, steering control, on and on. A Model A Ford that is mechanically correct. Brakes, front end, springs, shocks, steering, will handle very well. Is it the right car to run on Interstate 95 running through Connecticut with traffic doing 75 to 80 mph. NO! I would not want to lock up the front brakes on our Model A before the rear brakes. This is not a race car. Car was not set up for that type of braking. The buckboard suspension could bring the rear end right around. I would hope anyone who changed braking system would inform new owner when selling of what had been done. Some of us might not see that as an up grade. Enjoy. Last edited by WHN; 01-28-2018 at 08:52 AM.

01-28-2018, 01:58 PM	#31
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,823	Re: Brakes Chris: You are correct in that Ford did change their braking in the years following the Model A. They also changed the size of the tires, steering, and how the car sat. I am not saying that the Stock brake system from the factory is the best you can get. I am saying that once you lock up the rear wheels, the fronts, if adjusted properly, will lock up shortly after. Narrow tires, not much tire/ground surface. Wheels not turning, what more can you do. On a light, high center of gravity car, with narrow tires. Lock up the front tires, and watch what happens to the rear end. Also the center of gravity will shift giving even less weight on the rear wheels. In almost 60 years of driving these cars I have only locked up all four wheels a couple of times. Car did not move off track, but did skid further than I would have liked. “Tires”. Coming up with new ideas is what we pay you engineers to do. Keep the ideas coming.