Head Gaskets....

[hardtimes]

Anyone here old enough to have used copper/asbestos head gaskets ?
When was the last time you saw/used such a gasket ??

In the 'stuff' pile, I came across a nos Victor 800-C, made/patented Canada ! Sure is a quality head gasket that looks to be for BIG bore A/B engines. Wonder if Victor Co. is still around ?

[rocket1]

49-50 Hudson head gasket in the early 60's

[V4F]

best head gaskets are copper crush

[Jim Brierley]

I used one of my old, used once before, Victor in November. One nice thing about copper or steel gaskets is they are usually re-usable. I just spray 2 coats of silver paint on them and install while tacky. Victor did make big bore/big valve gaskets.

[CWPASADENA]

When I first started messing with Model A Fords more than 60 years ago, we always used Victor Copper Asbestos gaskets. They were the best around at the time.

Chris W.

[1930-Pickup]

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I have a Victor 800-C sitting with my parts, ready to use when the time comes.

The last Copper-Asbestos head gasket I used was on my 1925 Dodge Brothers...about 5 years ago.

[1930-Pickup]

Head gaskets, including Victor 800-C

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABcy...asketguide.htm

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

I used one of my old, used once before, Victor in November. One nice thing about copper or steel gaskets is they are usually re-usable. I just spray 2 coats of silver paint on them and install while tacky. Victor did make big bore/big valve gaskets.

Hey Jim,
Here's a picture of the 800-C. It has a little dust/oxide on it, but otherwise good. Full jacket around the combustion chamber.
Was this (asbestos) the type gasket that guys used to 'soak' in water before installation ? I've heard that that process helped with proper sealing ?

[hardtimes]

proper 800-C picture...

[katy]

Used them lots, in the '50s and early '60s, on flathead V-8s, never checked the blocks or heads for flatness and never had any leak. Come to think of it I don't remember whether we even used a torque wrench or not.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by katy

Used them lots, in the '50s and early '60s, on flathead V-8s, never checked the blocks or heads for flatness and never had any leak. Come to think of it I don't remember whether we even used a torque wrench or not.

'never had leaks'...
I believe you good results back when, was due to the QUALITY and PROPER fit for intended use. I also think that the asbestos was a good filler product...until it started to be banned substance.

Today, if I find a well made head gasket , for intended use and application, I feel fortunate...even at todays prices !


That nos pair of V8 steel clad asbestos filled head gaskets that I showed by mistake ..are most likely rare now also.

[Jim Brierley]

hardtimes, yes, but I never bothered to soak them, probably not a bad idea tho.

[KMeredith87]

I sure could use one of those old gaskets! I have a 6:1 head and it constantly blows head gaskets...talk about frustrating. I can barely drive the car these days because it just blows coolant out of the radiator (it’s a clean radiator)

[1931 flamingo]

What gasket are you now using, what torque, how many times, is the head surface "flat"?? Is the block surface flat??
Lots of info on Vince's sight on what gasket to use and how to torque it. FWIW
Paul in CT

How clean is the block?? Where is the overflow tube inlet positioned?? Do you have the baffle?? What year car are we talking??

[KMeredith87]

Block and head are both dead flat as I had them both milled and checked multiple times just to be sure. I currently have a B style copper gasket with spray copper on t and it just doesn’t seem to be sealing. It’s totwued to 55 per pretty much all the advice out there and has been retorqued a handle full of times after having been warmed then waited to be cold. I do have the baffle and the tube is at the aft most point of the inlet to the radiator. Also this is a 30 pick up...I’d love to figure it out, problem has plagued me we a few years. Thinking of trying the best gasket graphite type next...

[barnstuf]

In my youth we did not know what a torque wrench was and the copper/asbestos head gaskets called for a soak in shallow water in the bath tub, then cover both sides of the gasket with chassis grease and install. A blown head gasket was almost never heard of years ago.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by KMeredith87

Block and head are both dead flat as I had them both milled and checked multiple times just to be sure. I currently have a B style copper gasket with spray copper on t and it just doesn’t seem to be sealing. It’s totwued to 55 per pretty much all the advice out there and has been retorqued a handle full of times after having been warmed then waited to be cold. I do have the baffle and the tube is at the aft most point of the inlet to the radiator. Also this is a 30 pick up...I’d love to figure it out, problem has plagued me we a few years. Thinking of trying the best gasket graphite type next...

Larry Brumfield recommends 60 pounds on his 5.9 head, see the link.
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/brum...structions.htm

Bob

[michael a]

I had the same problem with a pulling tractor it was a John Deere B and they had a ton of compression behind it could not keep head gasket on it I had a good friend tell me how to make that hold I was getting stock John Deere gaskets nothing special and it would soak them overnight I would pull them out of the water and paint them with aluminum spray paint on both sides put them on and torque them fire up the tractor until the motor got good warm and this was at an idle let it sit overnight and retorque them the next day I always seem to get quite a bit out of the retorque then I would fired up again bring the motor up to temperature torque it again let it sit overnight and check it I would continue to do that until the torque stayed where it had to be. I know it's a pain in the ass but if you want a gasket to hold this is what work for me

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[katy]

then cover both sides of the gasket with chassis grease and install.

That's a step we used to do that I'd forgotten about. We never soaked them in water.

[KMeredith87]

I’ve heard aboutbgreasing the gasket...can someone explain that to me? Does it let the gasket move a little before settling and sealing? Just seems strange to me...

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by barnstuf

In my youth we did not know what a torque wrench was and the copper/asbestos head gaskets called for a soak in shallow water in the bath tub, then cover both sides of the gasket with chassis grease and install. A blown head gasket was almost never heard of years ago.

There were torque wrenches around, way back when. Just never had the $ , knowledge and/or inclination to have/use one.

I'll say this , about any comments about whether to use a torque wrench and/or whether it is necessary to even use....

IMO, and experience ...BTW(before torque wrench days ), I'd just crank the nuts/studs down until they cried uncle....or broke !
Otherwise, no real rhyme or reason about how went about the job.
Yeah, the head gaskets were made much better fit/finish than those we have to put up with now. So, even with cave man approach, I hardly can remember any such blow out problems. Low CR on the old flatheads , most likely, helped with my success. I did the water soak/grease thing as an old timer advised then.

Now , ATW acquisition, I found that proper use and sequential torqueing....even with crummy fit gaskets...I haven't had a blow out of head gasket in a long time. I've used 8:1 and presently 7:1 and 6:1 with no problems. WHY ? Because proper torqueing nut/bolt sequence and as often as necessary to bring the newly installed head gasket to HOLD the desired torque....be it 55 or 65. Your results may vary, eh

BTW...I have this idea that a lot of head gaskets 'move around' when being installed and are NOT in the perfect position when the head clamps down.

[redmodelt]

Yes grease allows for the gasket to move as it is tightened down. Which is why you need the sealer you use to be tacky not dried. It allows for squash. Do it all the time on T gaskets, as well as reuse old gaskets. Might be that as the engine fires, the grease is burnt around the fire ring and helps seal too.

[ursus]

All this talk of slippage makes one wonder if a spray of Slip-Plate or similar graphite coating might be of use. My dad always used the aluminum paint spray method and cautioned that the head be placed and torqued before the pain dried so it could "settle into place".

[katy]

I don't know the science or logic behind it, but my two older brothers were aircraft mechanics and that's what they said to do, so we did it, as a snot nosed teenager I didn't question their wisdom, I just did it. Whether it helped or not I have no idea, at least it didn't seem to hurt anything.

[Mikeinnj]

Many Model A Ford parts vendors sold the copper asbestos head gaskets through the 1980's.
I always soaked them in water ,over night before installing them and never had a gasket leak.

[heckstein]

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I'm running a 6.0 Snyder head on my 31 Coupe. The rebuilder installed the modern composition gasket and torqued to 65 ft/lbs. I have 2000 miles on the engine now with no issues. I plan to drive it from Salt Lake City to Reno in June for the National MAFCA convention. I've re-torqued the head to 65 ft/lbs once since installing the engine. I even badly overheated the engine on a tour due to a leaky water pump. Still, no head gasket issues.

Where do you see the fail in the head gaskets you remove? Is it always in the same place? What other clues can you offer to help us think about the causes of your trouble?

[Flathead]

I think a lot of the trouble reported on these gaskets is due to improper installation. You must follow the directions exactly.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Flathead

I think a lot of the trouble reported on these gaskets is due to improper installation. You must follow the directions exactly.

It's like hanging WALLPAPER, use the directions for that PARTICULAR PAPER!
Bill Sticky