brakes, question

[hangarb7]

Hi Guys,

At the office today and I need to put new front brakes on my Model A.

I want to order the linings so I can work on the car but I won't know what else I might need to replace without taking the parts off the car.

Drums seem fine when I repacked the bearings a few weeks ago.

Problem is, I have no garage to work in, so I can't just take the shoes off and leave the car sit if I need something else. The car had been restored about 10,000+ miles ago and up to now, my brakes have been excellent with regular adjustments.

So, is there any other part(s) that you would suggest I buy up front, suspecting that it is probably worn and need replaced? I know you can't predict everything but what are the typical replacement parts for most brake jobs?

Thanks,

JackD

[Kevin in NJ]

Why would you think it is the linings?
Poor brake performance is much more likely much larger picture.

The real solution is a lot of work. You really need to take the wheels off and see what you have on the 4 brakes.

I will tend to have a negative view, but it is often the case the brakes are just put together with whatever did not look to worn out. It is quite likely that your real solution is a lot of new parts.

If you want to get it done right just have all 4 wheels changed over to cast iron drums (I am assuming you have original steel). Then get made up backing plates with linings centered and sized to the drums. I know Brattons offers this service.

Proper brakes on the A are not easy or cheap to make happen. They are often not done right because they are not easy or cheap.

[hangarb7]

Kevin, you didn't read my message or it didn't come across properly.

I didn't ask what is wrong with my brakes. My brakes are and were excellent. They still are. But the lining is worn down to the rivets.

What I was asking was if there were other typical parts to replace that I can order and have on hand when I take things apart. I know this may be hard to predict, but I thought if there were parts that typically wear or parts that other folks ALWAYS replace in addition to the shoes, I would consider getting those also.

JackD

[Tom Wesenberg]

If the car was restored 10,000 miles ago, I'd think the rest of the parts would be fine. I am surprised the brake shoes would be worn out in 10,000 miles, but if you live in the city like I do, then there's a lot of stop and go. I'd have a set of cotter pins for the brake roller pins, and some high temp grease to coat the moving parts. I can't think of anything else.

[Patrick L.]

Its really hard to predict what can be worn/bad because we don't what was done last time.
If the brakes are working as they should, it may need nothing[ except your linings].

That said, mechanical brakes are a different animal than hydraulic ones. Hydraulic brakes are more forgiving than mechanicals. I do like good mechanicals for vehicles that sit idle all winter.

[hangarb7]

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Thanks folks. The front shoe was not arched properly (maybe not at all) and are worn from the bottom to about midpoint. Lining is thick at the top.

JackD

[bunnyc]

Unless you're buying new shoes with linings installed, you'll need the riveting tool. My "might as well while I'm there" list would include: new springs, operating pin, set of shims, adjusting shafts, rollers.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by hangarb7

Thanks folks. The front shoe was not arched properly (maybe not at all) and are worn from the bottom to about midpoint. Lining is thick at the top.

JackD

Sounds like the roller tracks are worn out and let the shoes set too low.

[Kevin in NJ]

Sorry, not fully clear from the text.

Still I am big on measuring.

I would want to know what is the drum size. You need to know to get the shoes ground to size anyway.

I still would tear into all the parts and see what they look like. How are the brake pin heads, are the rollers turning free and so on down the list.
If you happen to have a new or NOS wedge I would do a compare. If you are not sure if the wedges were new or cleaned up used then it is not very expensive to put new parts in place. I would also wonder about the operating pins as they seem to take a lot of wear and if repro units were used I would definitely want to know what they look like.

I have also found things like the adjuster links all seems be to spread where they go over the shoes. This is an easy fix. While you are at it keep in mind the pins should be a snug fit in the shoe holes.

I have been burned by too many little details and seen to many strange things. So I like to verify. Always best to overdo the brake system.

With the shoes being worn only half way indicates maybe the shoes are not properly centered or were not set up properly in the first place.
They have to be arched to the drums then centered when installed and set to the proper operating diameter. The more you crank in the adjuster the move you move the center of the shoes towards the adjuster.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by hangarb7

Thanks folks. The front shoe was not arched properly (maybe not at all) and are worn from the bottom to about midpoint. Lining is thick at the top.

JackD

Yep, I agree that there is something wrong. So, all bets are off, seems like a track problem, but,,,,,,,,
Once the backing plates are set up correctly, when it comes to grinding the linings, I just stick some sandpaper in the drum and go to work until my wrists are sore. If the shoe and loose lining doesn't fit the drum as well as I like then I've been know to 'warp' the shoe before attaching the lining to eliminate some sanding. I try to sand as few miles off the lining as possible.

[hangarb7]

Kevin, Tom and everyone. Thanks for all the insight. More to follow.

Interesting that I see here that arching involves grinding the lining away. The local mechanic who only works on old Fords here near Pittsburgh, doesn't do it that way. He has a machine that mechanically arches the shoe.... more round or less round. You bring your drums and he lays them in there. If the tips touch, more rounding by bending the shoe (the device has an eccentric knob that pushes the center of the shoe outward, bending the web to meet the roundness of the drum)

If the shoe touches in the middle, another device squeezes the shoe flatter. No lining lost at all.

Thanks again. I'll report what I find.

JackD

[hangarb7]

OK, so an update. Since I have to work in my gravel driveway it makes things more difficult. But I DID find the roller tracks to be worn. I took the backing plates off and built them up with weld and grind/filed them smooth.

But then I realized that the shoes were not arched properly so I built an archer and did that, and finally I realized I did not have a centering tool, so not wanting to put new shoes on and not be able to center them, I flipped the old shoes temporarily. The brakes now work very well.

Two questions remain: one, the Les Andrews book says the rod needs to be 7-1/4" long. My rods have clearly not been ground but are 7-1/8" exact. For worn brakes I had to add an extra pill, but should I buy new rods as he suggests in his book?

Second, the new shoes I purchased (already having lining, didn't want to learn that new skill just yet) have obvious gaps under the lining between rivets. This just doesn't look right to me. Should I return them? I know the lining will squish down during braking but it would seem that dust would accumulate under the gaps and eventually the lining in that area would wear down faster....

Thanks for any constructive comments.

JackD

[Tom Wesenberg]

How much air gap? It's likely nothing to worry about. I bought 2 new rods to correct for my shorter worn rods. I'd rather do that than add pills, as long as it brings the arms forward as they should be.