The Ford Barn

rotorwrench · 05-31-2011, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Are you saying that due to the modification I now need to install the 95% oil filter system?

It might be a question about what plug to remove in order for the modified system to work without being connected. There is a diagram in this thread from the flathead techno site. www.flatheadv8.org/filter.htm

If the plug that's installed in the cross passage is not removed the oil can't get to the main feed line if the filter system is not installed as intended. If the internal plug was removed then disreguard.

Kerby

George/Maine · 05-31-2011, 06:29 PM

If you still have the other engine check the front and middle caps and my guess they got mixed.Maybe you can get a .040 under bearing.

Merc Cruzer · 05-31-2011, 06:35 PM

rotowrench:

When I had it drilled for the 95% filter, it was because the block was out of the car! I had them block it off for now as I was going to use the origional system and later put the 95% filter system on. When I go to tear it down I will have to check to see if the grub screw is in the passage.....haven't pulled the rod caps off yet...stopped when I found the center main fried.

36tbird · 05-31-2011, 06:35 PM

"2) Were the oil holes from cam to crank checked for alignment?"

Kahuna asked this question and you replied that you did not understand what he was asking.

Kahuna is a buddy of mine and it is interesting that we both must have had the same ideas this afternoon while he was posting. I was out, putting on the pan for a 59A that I have rebuilt and thinking about your thread and wondering the same thing, kinda. "Who installed your cam bearings and did that person get the holes in the cam bearings aligned north/south?" That is, the progression of the oil is from the pump up to the tube running in the lifter valley (never mind about the oil filter at this point) down to the cam bearings from holes from that tube to them, then down to the main bearings from cam bearing holes and troughs cut in the bearings. The holes in the cam bearings are aligned north/south in the block relative to up/down. So, you could have great oil pressure because it is measured before the oil goes to the cam bearings but the oil is not being allowed to migrate to the 1st and 2nd mains. As Bruce pointed out, the rear main gets oil from differently so the third cam bearing not aligned is not as critical for the rear main.

Merc Cruzer · 05-31-2011, 06:40 PM

George/Maine:

Checked the bearings when they came in....all were .030's. I just went down and checked the old block...nothing mixed with the new block. I will check line bore when it is dissembled again.

Merc Cruzer · 05-31-2011, 06:48 PM

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36bird:

Wish I could tell you for sure, as they were done by the machine shop...but I cann't...I willl look when I tear it down again...I am making a list of things to check...feel free to add to the list.

Merc Cruzer · 05-31-2011, 07:32 PM

36bird;

Many of my pictures are too big to post, so I took a picture of one on my screen..I think this naswers yours and Kahuna's question...

OLD...BILL · 05-31-2011, 07:42 PM

I think your going to find the ( add it plug ) in the passage, that was drilled for the 95 % filtering system, see the diagram in rotowrench therad it is called; "the 7/16 allen head set screw," if it is in place the oil goes out to filter ands pressure gage and returns to cam and the two main bearings, with no oil filter in service, the out let is pluged, oil stays in the pump shaft / bore area and goes to the rear main ONLY.... this is sad.... We may all learn from it, ..hope this helps, sorry....OLD....BILL

Merc Cruzer · 05-31-2011, 07:59 PM

I think you are right....if so then if it prevents another engine failure, then it was worth it....

Ronnie · 05-31-2011, 08:14 PM

This a completed filter system in his case the grub screw must not be there as he doesn't have a spin on installed.

john stimac · 05-31-2011, 08:35 PM

I agree with MART'S long shot. Had the same thing happen to me on a 8ba. someone put a plug in the filter by pass area at the rear of the block, resulted in no oil pressure at the front of the motor.

phartman · 05-31-2011, 08:41 PM

Take the motor down to the Animal House fraternity and let D-Day have a whack at it. As for you? Follow Bluto's advice....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepFO4psgKE

David J · 05-31-2011, 09:19 PM

The " after the road trip " scene . Good stuff . Merc Cruiser , It takes a good person to be civil & understanding in a situation like this and for that I think you're allright . Good luck and hopefully most parts will be OK . David J PS to all - The depth of knowledge on this site is absolutely amazing

Quote:

Originally Posted by phartman

Take the motor down to the Animal House fraternity and let D-Day have a whack at it. As for you? Follow Bluto's advice....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepFO4psgKE

Barlea · 05-31-2011, 11:56 PM

The system used by Ford Canada in WWll engines and as option until '51 did not use a grub screw to block the horizontal connecting passage. The outboard vertical oil port used a special brass fitting with a 1 1/4" long thinwall tube projecting from it's bottom that blocked the horizontal passage when it was in place. If the full flow filter was to be disconnected, the brass fittings that connected to the flexible 3/8" ID hose would be removed for the pipe plugs to go in, and the passage would be open for either the use of the partial flow filter, or no filter. Since all Ford Canada blocks had the extra inboard oil port, dealers could easily add or remove the filter and special fitting. ..B.

Zeke...PA · 06-01-2011, 04:58 AM

As stated if the block was drilled for 95% filtering and the filter was not installed or a jumper used, oil channel starved of oil. Zeke

GOSFAST · 06-01-2011, 06:25 AM

I'll place a couple photos of the block below for anyone who hasn't actually seen one finished with the oiling mod.

It is a very effective system when "plumbed" correctly.

Most info up here is correct, the "internal" (redirecting) plug must be left out without the filter in the system. This is how we dynoed a recent build, upon delivery the customer installed the "by-pass" plug to get the oil supply to the filter.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. This recent build runs with 30#+ idle pressure and 50#+ at cruising speeds!

JM 35 Sedan · 06-01-2011, 08:12 AM

Merc Cruzer, This was certainly a tough way for you to have to learn about this. I hope your engine damage is minimal and you can get it fixed and back on the road soon. I also hope others, including myself, will remember this and not make the same mistake. One thing I plan to do is take that picture that's been posted here (and is in my files) and add a note warning not to make this modification without including the oil filter. Please keep us posted on the outcome of your engine. Good luck!

Ralph Moore · 06-01-2011, 08:18 AM

I've never seen the system installed before, most books tell you how, but leave out the pics. Do you have any pics without the fittings? Did you machine a flat on the block before drilling the hole in the passage? Also it looks like you used a larger pipe thread size on all the passages. I know the horizontal one would have to be larger in order to get the grub plug in place(run a tap in the passage). If you do this to an 8BA, you would not use the lower block return, right?

flatjack9 · 06-01-2011, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barlea

The system used by Ford Canada in WWll engines and as option until '51 did not use a grub screw to block the horizontal connecting passage. The outboard vertical oil port used a special brass fitting with a 1 1/4" long thinwall tube projecting from it's bottom that blocked the horizontal passage when it was in place. If the full flow filter was to be disconnected, the brass fittings that connected to the flexible 3/8" ID hose would be removed for the pipe plugs to go in, and the passage would be open for either the use of the partial flow filter, or no filter. Since all Ford Canada blocks had the extra inboard oil port, dealers could easily add or remove the filter and special fitting. ..B.

Are these fittings available today?

Barlea · 06-01-2011, 10:17 AM

The fitting can be made by modifying one of the brass fittings that are used to change from the 1/4" pipe thread (3/8" ID) oil ports to the 3/8" ID flexible pressure line to the full-flow filter base. Use a drill press to run a 3/8" bit slightly into the bottom of the fitting and a short piece of thinwall brass tubing can be soldered in place. This is a slip-fit 1 1/4" down the vertical oil passage and will be long enough to pass the horizontal passage and isolate the "out" from the "in". No grub screw surprises. ..B.

05-31-2011, 06:29 PM	#42
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild If you still have the other engine check the front and middle caps and my guess they got mixed.Maybe you can get a .040 under bearing.

05-31-2011, 06:35 PM	#43
Merc Cruzer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Conifer, Colorado Posts: 2,423	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild rotowrench: When I had it drilled for the 95% filter, it was because the block was out of the car! I had them block it off for now as I was going to use the origional system and later put the 95% filter system on. When I go to tear it down I will have to check to see if the grub screw is in the passage.....haven't pulled the rod caps off yet...stopped when I found the center main fried.

05-31-2011, 06:35 PM	#44
36tbird Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: nw SanAntonio, TX Posts: 939	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild "2) Were the oil holes from cam to crank checked for alignment?" Kahuna asked this question and you replied that you did not understand what he was asking. Kahuna is a buddy of mine and it is interesting that we both must have had the same ideas this afternoon while he was posting. I was out, putting on the pan for a 59A that I have rebuilt and thinking about your thread and wondering the same thing, kinda. "Who installed your cam bearings and did that person get the holes in the cam bearings aligned north/south?" That is, the progression of the oil is from the pump up to the tube running in the lifter valley (never mind about the oil filter at this point) down to the cam bearings from holes from that tube to them, then down to the main bearings from cam bearing holes and troughs cut in the bearings. The holes in the cam bearings are aligned north/south in the block relative to up/down. So, you could have great oil pressure because it is measured before the oil goes to the cam bearings but the oil is not being allowed to migrate to the 1st and 2nd mains. As Bruce pointed out, the rear main gets oil from differently so the third cam bearing not aligned is not as critical for the rear main.

05-31-2011, 06:40 PM	#45
Merc Cruzer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Conifer, Colorado Posts: 2,423	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild George/Maine: Checked the bearings when they came in....all were .030's. I just went down and checked the old block...nothing mixed with the new block. I will check line bore when it is dissembled again.

05-31-2011, 06:48 PM	#46
Merc Cruzer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Conifer, Colorado Posts: 2,423	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) 36bird: Wish I could tell you for sure, as they were done by the machine shop...but I cann't...I willl look when I tear it down again...I am making a list of things to check...feel free to add to the list. Last edited by Merc Cruzer; 05-31-2011 at 06:53 PM.

05-31-2011, 07:42 PM	#48
OLD...BILL Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern California,coast Posts: 552	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild I think your going to find the ( add it plug ) in the passage, that was drilled for the 95 % filtering system, see the diagram in rotowrench therad it is called; "the 7/16 allen head set screw," if it is in place the oil goes out to filter ands pressure gage and returns to cam and the two main bearings, with no oil filter in service, the out let is pluged, oil stays in the pump shaft / bore area and goes to the rear main ONLY.... this is sad.... We may all learn from it, ..hope this helps, sorry....OLD....BILL

05-31-2011, 07:59 PM	#49
Merc Cruzer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Conifer, Colorado Posts: 2,423	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild I think you are right....if so then if it prevents another engine failure, then it was worth it....

05-31-2011, 08:35 PM	#51
john stimac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lake Havasu City Posts: 100	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild I agree with MART'S long shot. Had the same thing happen to me on a 8ba. someone put a plug in the filter by pass area at the rear of the block, resulted in no oil pressure at the front of the motor.

05-31-2011, 08:41 PM	#52
phartman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 339	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild Take the motor down to the Animal House fraternity and let D-Day have a whack at it. As for you? Follow Bluto's advice.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepFO4psgKE Last edited by phartman; 05-31-2011 at 08:51 PM.

05-31-2011, 11:56 PM	#54
Barlea Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: West Central Alberta Posts: 441	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild The system used by Ford Canada in WWll engines and as option until '51 did not use a grub screw to block the horizontal connecting passage. The outboard vertical oil port used a special brass fitting with a 1 1/4" long thinwall tube projecting from it's bottom that blocked the horizontal passage when it was in place. If the full flow filter was to be disconnected, the brass fittings that connected to the flexible 3/8" ID hose would be removed for the pipe plugs to go in, and the passage would be open for either the use of the partial flow filter, or no filter. Since all Ford Canada blocks had the extra inboard oil port, dealers could easily add or remove the filter and special fitting. ..B.

06-01-2011, 08:12 AM	#57
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild Merc Cruzer, This was certainly a tough way for you to have to learn about this. I hope your engine damage is minimal and you can get it fixed and back on the road soon. I also hope others, including myself, will remember this and not make the same mistake. One thing I plan to do is take that picture that's been posted here (and is in my files) and add a note warning not to make this modification without including the oil filter. Please keep us posted on the outcome of your engine. Good luck! __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein* Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 06-01-2011 at 08:27 AM.

06-01-2011, 08:18 AM	#58
Ralph Moore Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North Pole, Alaska Posts: 1,470	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild I've never seen the system installed before, most books tell you how, but leave out the pics. Do you have any pics without the fittings? Did you machine a flat on the block before drilling the hole in the passage? Also it looks like you used a larger pipe thread size on all the passages. I know the horizontal one would have to be larger in order to get the grub plug in place(run a tap in the passage). If you do this to an 8BA, you would not use the lower block return, right?

06-01-2011, 10:17 AM	#60
Barlea Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: West Central Alberta Posts: 441	Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild The fitting can be made by modifying one of the brass fittings that are used to change from the 1/4" pipe thread (3/8" ID) oil ports to the 3/8" ID flexible pressure line to the full-flow filter base. Use a drill press to run a 3/8" bit slightly into the bottom of the fitting and a short piece of thinwall brass tubing can be soldered in place. This is a slip-fit 1 1/4" down the vertical oil passage and will be long enough to pass the horizontal passage and isolate the "out" from the "in". No grub screw surprises. ..B.