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Old 05-17-2018, 06:59 PM   #21
Talkwrench
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

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Originally Posted by Talkwrench
I bet it would run like a pig until everything was hot ..

actually, when you look at that setup because there is no fuel running through the long tubes manifold temp wouldn't matter. it's got fuel injectors right at the base of the intake into the block. you won't have fuel falling out of suspension due to a cold, long intake runner.


Yes, I was making a statement about the original post.. I can see the injection working , nice.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

What do you think is beneficial in using a long tube intake manifold on a flathead?
I see no advantage whatsoever
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

Pictures of mine are on my other computer at home. I'm running it at El Mirage this weekend, however. It is Ray's (Flat32) design. It has, however, no butterflies. It has a plenum with a throttle body for air control only and 8 injectors (one in each tube). I ran 151+ at El Mirage last November. I plan on doing better this weekend.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:57 PM   #24
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

Elmo/wayne... I'll be a devil's advocate. You could gear, theoretically, a 12hp briggs motor to do 200mph if you had enough track. Please add more.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:24 PM   #25
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

Tinker, aerodynamic forces would gobble up them 12 horsies in short order.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

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I don't know my grandfather built and ran a inverted 40hp model a engine in his plane, he used to get plenty of lift. I get what your saying. Like I mentioned it'd be nice if you shared.






.

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Old 05-18-2018, 01:28 AM   #27
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

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Originally Posted by Kahuna View Post
What do you think is beneficial in using a long tube intake manifold on a flathead?
I see no advantage whatsoever
The goal would be to see what -- if any -- improvements in low-RPM performance could be realized. The flathead's stock intake manifold, while of sound basic design is a tangle of twists and turns.

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Originally Posted by revkev6 View Post


this is the same type of intake that JWL put on his dyno in his book. think it's the one you are talking about?
I have JWL's book and that looks a lot like the intake he shows in there. It's a REAL thing of beauty! How well does it perform?

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...
That's kind of the idea I was having here, to see if the airflow path could be straightened out and charge velocity increased to boost low-end performance.

Tracing airflow through a stock manifold reveals the following. Outboard cylinders on one bank and the inboard of the other draw off the same carburetor throat, with cylinders 1 and 6 as well as 3 and 8 sharing a common runner.



For practical purposes, the only way I envision this mess of tubing ever fitting under a vehicle hood is with two carburetors, each feeding four cylinders, maintaining the over-under design of a stock manifold. As some of you have suggested, side-draft carbs would probably be best.

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Old 05-18-2018, 07:02 AM   #28
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

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I don't know my grandfather built and ran a inverted 40hp model a engine in his plane, he used to get plenty of lift. I get what your saying. Like I mentioned it'd be nice if you shared.






.
Lift is a different physical property than drag. Remember, a glider can get lift under it's own power once it get's going.
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:04 AM   #29
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

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Originally Posted by Kahuna View Post
What do you think is beneficial in using a long tube intake manifold on a flathead?
I see no advantage whatsoever
I wanted to ask Pete this same question. My thought is a ram effect, but I'm really curious on the intake was able to lower the RPM's. I'm not doubting, but really curious on this works. I find it fascinating.
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:47 AM   #30
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

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Originally Posted by Kahuna View Post
What do you think is beneficial in using a long tube intake manifold on a flathead?
I see no advantage whatsoever

just look at petes post. you are able to make more usable torque and more hp. it's not relegated to extreme racing engines. why do you think factory engines have long runners now?? they are all tuned intakes to give ram effects.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
Elmo/wayne... I'll be a devil's advocate. You could gear, theoretically, a 12hp briggs motor to do 200mph if you had enough track. Please add more.

maybe in a vacuum. factor in any kind of drag and that's a bs statement. drag increases at the square of speed. if you want to go twice as fast it takes 4 times the hp to overcome the drag. it doesn't matter if it's a plane or a car, the coefficient of drag for any vehicle is a constant (for that particular vehicle) mostly they calculate drag out to the equivalent "flat plate area" for example a P51 mustang has approximately the same amount of force exerted on it by the air it's flying through as a flat board that is 2ftx2ft.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
I don't know my grandfather built and ran a inverted 40hp model a engine in his plane, he used to get plenty of lift. I get what your saying. Like I mentioned it'd be nice if you shared.






.

HP provides thrust in a plane, wings provide lift. if we compare your earlier briggs engine analogy to the airplane you are using now, that plane has infinite space to fly continually so per your logic should break the sound barrier!!
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:40 AM   #31
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

At a more convenient moment I'll try to get some pictures posted.
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:11 PM   #32
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

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Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
I wanted to ask Pete this same question. My thought is a ram effect, but I'm really curious on the intake was able to lower the RPM's. I'm not doubting, but really curious on this works. I find it fascinating.
Intake and exhaust tuning is used to move the peak torque or horsepower to a certain rpm range depending on the use of the engine.
If you will notice closely sometime, race teams that use one car to compete on several types or lengths of tracks, will use different configurations of exhaust headers and intake manifolds.
An excellent explanation of this was published in a book called "The Sports Car"
by Colin Campbell in 1961.
The basic principle of this is that the movement of the intake charge and the exhaust gas as interrupted by the valves causes pressure waves in the tubing it is traveling in. These pressure waves travel along the inner surface of the tubes building positive pressure ahead of them and negative pressure behind. If the tubing is cut to certain length, at a certain rpm the negative portion of the wave will occur precisely at the end of the tube and will cause a reflection of the wave. This reverse wave will travel back along the inner surface of the tube till it gets to the valve seat when it will meet the new wave and be reflected and reinforced causing a slight vacuum. This vacuum is what gives the incoming charge or the outgoing exhaust a boost in speed and increases engine efficiency.
There are several other design parameters involved in using this system but this is the basic.
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:01 PM   #33
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

Or you can cheat and make your own pressure!

Btw, believe it or not the intake port length design still makes a difference with a blower or turbo.

Pete, that Harmon Collins cam you ground for me will be at the heart of this setup eventually!
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Old 05-19-2018, 11:02 PM   #34
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

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HP provides thrust in a plane, wings provide lift. if we compare your earlier briggs engine analogy to the airplane you are using now, that plane has infinite space to fly continually so per your logic should break the sound barrier!!

But isn't it also limited to the pitch of the propeller also. Kind of like gearing or per say a osprey plane that can change the pitch of the propeller? Or why new cars have 5-6-8 sp transmissions with smaller engines. or why i installed a over drive unit in my flathead.


Like maybe.... torque performance and gear ratios? when I'm at 4k rpms in 4th and switch to 5th which drops it 3k or below torque range? and I can't overpower the resistance. Just want to learn...

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Old 05-19-2018, 11:16 PM   #35
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

torque being more relevant then hp.


seems to me with a briggs the weight of the transmission would be the biggest issue. maybe, But if it was geared right... I digress.








.

Last edited by Tinker; 05-19-2018 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 05-20-2018, 03:00 PM   #36
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

I'm assuming you realize the HP is torque x rpm.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

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But isn't it also limited to the pitch of the propeller also. Kind of like gearing or per say a osprey plane that can change the pitch of the propeller? Or why new cars have 5-6-8 sp transmissions with smaller engines. or why i installed a over drive unit in my flathead.


Like maybe.... torque performance and gear ratios? when I'm at 4k rpms in 4th and switch to 5th which drops it 3k or below torque range? and I can't overpower the resistance. Just want to learn...
We are getting Way off topic. But put your hand out the window at 30mph and 60mph.. the air resistance between them is not linear. It is more than twice the force to hold your hand still at 60 than 30. So the faster you go the more power you need by a lot, not just the gear or prop pitch to get there.

Drag from air is your biggest enemy on top end speed.
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Old 05-20-2018, 07:10 PM   #38
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

true. Alright I'll back off. Although I still believe with the right conditions gearing/torque might be as important or more so, as hp.
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Old 05-20-2018, 07:58 PM   #39
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

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I'm assuming you realize the HP is torque x rpm.

Yes I know you need hp to create torque. The idea was to apply gearing over torque range, not over peak hp. Granted aerodynamics and weight.

okay... Found this video that talks torque and hp, it makes a strong case for the importance of torque in conjunction with hp. Certainly not exploring the earlier, but the traditional later. Faster/quicker. But does express gearing and torque mod'ed to hp or adding torque to hp. Not really going into gearing for torque only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-MH4sf5xkY


torque over hp links.

https://newatlas.com/top-ev-electric...op-fuel/50741/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qaj2_0Ouos


okay I'm done. Sorry, I apologize to the original poster.

Last edited by Tinker; 05-20-2018 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:59 PM   #40
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Default Re: Long-Tube Intake Manifold

Years ago a fellow ran a long tube manifold, Supposedly he said it made little difference if the tubes were on top of the carbs or mounted under the carbs.
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