Supercharging a Model A

[GeneBob]

jeepguy1948,
The sniper setup requires a return line from the injector to the gas tank. Some have suggested just putting a tee in the feed to the fuel pump instead of going back to the tank. It seems like that would work but I was worried it would mess up the feed and return pressures for the fuel pump and injector. I am still tempted.
As far as the Weber, most people running them, love them. I was never happy with its performance but it could be me and not the carb.

[jeepguy1948]

When you were running the Stromberg did you have some type of heat on the intake (I assume that you were also running a header and couldn’t bolt the 2 manifolds together as in the stock configuration)? It stands to reason that heat for the intake would be beneficial since Ford provided for it. I have heard of fuel puddling issues in the intake when the Stromberg is used without heat. I have also seen pictures of a device that was installed between the carb and the manifold which uses coolant hot water for heat. Thoughts? PS; I actually have a Webber and intake but tuning the darn things appears intimidating to me, I would think one would need to plumb in a air/fuel sensor in the exhaust to determine exactly what is going on with it.

[bruceincam]

Originally Posted by jeepguy1948

When you were running the Stromberg did you have some type of heat on the intake (I assume that you were also running a header and couldn’t bolt the 2 manifolds together as in the stock configuration)? It stands to reason that heat for the intake would be beneficial since Ford provided for it. I have heard of fuel puddling issues in the intake when the Stromberg is used without heat. I have also seen pictures of a device that was installed between the carb and the manifold which uses coolant hot water for heat. Thoughts? PS; I actually have a Webber and intake but tuning the darn things appears intimidating to me, I would think one would need to plumb in a air/fuel sensor in the exhaust to determine exactly what is going on with it.

If you really must have that information to get it tuned, you can buy fairly inexpensive A/F monitors that sample the exhaust at the tail pipe for tuning purposes. Mounting is only temporary though. Should work for short test drives.

[CT Jack]

It would be interesting to see what could be done with adapting a supercharger on a Burtz engine. This engine design has many of the negatives of the stock A engine removed, i.e. 5mains, balanced weighted crank, pressurized lubrication, etc,. It seems this design would be a much better starting point when compared to the stock engine.

[jack backer]

Gene, try a Murray Horn harmonic balancer, all steel design. Works as it should, reduces the reason pulleys break in the first place.

Flathead compression above 7 to one begins to reduce air flow, turbocharging has no parasitic load like a supercharger does..Kubota compact construction uses turbos that almost perfectly match the A engine.

The model A 3 main bearings have adequate area to handle the increased load, babbit issues with compression is an old wives tale.. you can have head gasket issues, running a hig aggregate compression by boost and head design can exceed the gaskets ability for a long life.

[jack backer]

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I run a modified flathead, 7 to 1 original Winfield red head, late B cam, Holley 94 and an FSI distributor with a 40k volt coil.. horn harmonic balancer, McEachern bronze cam gear..reds 4 into one header..Mitchell od..

She’s a hoot to drive, you get to roll on that model a torque from 5 to 50 mph splitting second. Use a modern style head gasket..it take the joy of driving a stock A and doubles it..

[jeepguy1948]

Does the Murray Horn harmonic balancer differ from the one made in New Zeeland?

[Flathead]

That is the one from NZ. Nice pulleys.

[jeepguy1948]

Thanks, good to know. I have been seriously considering one but haven’t pulled the trigger yet. See a like a lot of money for something so simple but a lot of people like them so they must be worth it.

[GeneBob]

Originally Posted by jeepguy1948

When you were running the Stromberg did you have some type of heat on the intake (I assume that you were also running a header and couldn’t bolt the 2 manifolds together as in the stock configuration)? It stands to reason that heat for the intake would be beneficial since Ford provided for it. I have heard of fuel puddling issues in the intake when the Stromberg is used without heat. I have also seen pictures of a device that was installed between the carb and the manifold which uses coolant hot water for heat. Thoughts? PS; I actually have a Webber and intake but tuning the darn things appears intimidating to me, I would think one would need to plumb in a air/fuel sensor in the exhaust to determine exactly what is going on with it.

I found that adding some form of heat transfer to the intake helped. It reduced the "wet" gas that I would see in the intake and greatly reduce stumbling coming off idle at lower speed acceleration.

[GeneBob]

Jack Backer,
Murry seems to have stopped listing on EBAY and did not reply to an email that I sent. This was a couple months ago if you have any newer information, please let me know.
I would ideally like to run a serpentine with the harmonic. I just got 3 serpentine pulleys from Cling's in Arizona (2 small pulleys and 1 crank pulley). My intention is to remount the supercharger with the serpentine setup with the idea that it will require less belt tension to run the supercharger. I intend to use a tensioner instead of tightening the heck out of the belt. Depending where I mount the tensioner, it will provide more wrap around the alternator and supercharger pulleys to reduce slip without high preloads (or so I hope). The serpentine belt will also reduce the mass of the belt and the whipping that goes along with it. If this doesn't do it, I am going to a V8.

[GeneBob]

Originally Posted by CT Jack

It would be interesting to see what could be done with adapting a supercharger on a Burtz engine. This engine design has many of the negatives of the stock A engine removed, i.e. 5mains, balanced weighted crank, pressurized lubrication, etc,. It seems this design would be a much better starting point when compared to the stock engine.

CT Jack,
I originally intended to do exactly that. Since I already have a rebuilt original engine, I had to go with it. At the time, the date for the Burtz kept moving out. I think it would be a great combo but I can't just throw money at my ideal setup. Besides, as fantastic as the Burtz engine coming to market is, it is still made in China. As my son said, would you rather go to a Chevy V8 or a Chinese made engine? I think I will eventually go with a Ford V8.

[jeepguy1948]

Sometimes I think a small block Ford would be a H**L of a lot easier than the extremes we go to to get a little more power. Also, I have a feeling that before too long we may not be getting imports from China, there is no question they are not nice people and I have to believe that sooner or later the US will catch on. I know that Burtz tried for years to get a domestic foundry to work with him but no go so he really had no choice

[jack backer]

I bought mine from Murray a few years ago, great guy to do business with. A harmonic balancer pays for itself if you run a stock A crank, harmonic distortion is what takes out the center main bearing..the balancer dissipates the vibration some.

One nice thing about the serpentine is it handles a lot more load than a V belt..they transmit power better too, dont run as hot.

clings is another first class outfit to deal with.. word is their doors are closing too

[dmalecha]

Originally Posted by jeepguy1948

Maybe I’ll sell my Webber carb and intake (not yet installed) and buy a Stromberg and intake instead. That would certain be easier to deal with, Webbers are somewhat intimidating anyway. I have been investigating the possibilities of a Holley Sniper EFI recently and may give that a try. As far as I can find nobody has yet done it on the Model A engine that was running a flathead on it. I do know of a guy that has installed the Sniper on a 4banger flathead Jeep motor with excellent results and that is a 134CI flathead motor rated motor 60 hp stock. As Jim Brierley points out in his book the A motor is a big motor at 200CI so it can benefit from more volume on the intake. The Sniper model I am looking at is their smallest one that Holley has made so far it was designed for the 200CI 6 Ford rated 140 hp it replaces the Autolite 1100 one barrel carb. And is plug and play with the cpu in the Sniper itself, the only external component required is an air/fuel sensor in the exhaust (within 18” of the manifold).

Dave Gerold is working on an Holley Sniper/Autolite 1100 as we speak. He will be installing it a a Burt’s with a miller head. I’m sure he will post about his experience once it is installed and running on the car. I don’t remember which forum he posted on but it was brought up.

[jack backer]

The Chinese are fine properly funded.. it’s when someone tries to squeeze every dime out of working with them that the quality suffers. It’s your car, do as you wish..I prefer 200 cuin L head.. it’s a stumpy little motor..

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by jack backer

clings is another first class outfit to deal with.. word is their doors are closing too

You freaked me out, man. I called Cling's first thing this morning. He is not closing his doors, but he says he would sell the business to someone who met his asking price.

[Phil Brown]

Originally Posted by jack backer

Gene, try a Murray Horn harmonic balancer, all steel design. Works as it should, reduces the reason pulleys break in the first place.

Flathead compression above 7 to one begins to reduce air flow, turbocharging has no parasitic load like a supercharger does..Kubota compact construction uses turbos that almost perfectly match the A engine.

The model A 3 main bearings have adequate area to handle the increased load, babbit issues with compression is an old wives tale.. you can have head gasket issues, running a hig aggregate compression by boost and head design can exceed the gaskets ability for a long life.

This one ran good

[Bruce of MN]

Originally Posted by Phil Brown

This one ran good

With a blow through carb, the float bowl vents and overflow need to be addressed, do you know what was done?

[jeepguy1948]

I’ll see if I can’t get ahold of Dave Gerold but his motor with the OHV will probably flow a lot more air and a lot more HP then my stock-ish banger so will push it into the range in which the Sniper was designed for.