1929 4dr?

[skawars1]

Hey All,
A buddy an I am looking at what we think is 1929 4dr to restore. It's a sure cool car. Runs rough, little rust, bad interior. The seller thinks it's a 29. Not knowing allot about these types of cars are there certain things we should be looking at and what would be a good offer?
Thanks

[Steve Wastler]

The fordors have a large amount of wood in the body, can get very expensive, for the kit and if you have to pay someone to install it.

[Hicktick]

The main thing I would look at if buying it would be the title.

I am not trying to be a smartass .

[skawars1]

Are titles even available for these cars? And what is a general price for an unrestored one?

[1930artdeco]

Yes there are titles and if it doesn't have one, then be VERY carful! Since this is a fordor and runs a bit rough here is kind of what to expect in restoration costs:
wood:$4K
paint: $2-3K
Interior: $2K
engine: $3K

These are numbers I found looking for prices for my car, so you can get a rough idea of what to expect.

Mike

[skawars1]

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Thanks. What would be a good offer?

[Hicktick]

Most cars have titles , check with your state DMV

Tell us where you are and im sure someone will help you from a local club.

As for the value ??? post some pictures of it in detail or get some help from an A club member .

[skawars1]

This is the only pic I have at the moment.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by skawars1

Are titles even available for these cars? And what is a general price for an unrestored one?

skawars1,

Couple of things. It would be nice to know at least know your first name. Mr. skawars1 just doesn't have a nice ring to it (did you mother hate you when you were born and actually name you that?). Next it would be nice to know in general where you live. Are you asking about a title in Afghanistan or California? And your second question about the price. It is good to see the picture. It looks a lot better than what I expected. Without looking at it up close about $5000 might be a good price. The devil is in the details. You should contact someone that is familiar with the Model A to look at it. Go to MACFA.com or modelaford.org and find a local club (probably none available in Afghanistan). I would strongly recommend if you are just getting into the hobby that you buy one you can drive. You could very well lose interest in one that is a monumental task. I know that I am not motivated enough to tackle a '28/'29 Fordor with all off its wood. You might find the following web site interesting. I wrote this and Jim Mason was kind enough to post it on his site.

http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/wherestart.html


Best of luck and welcome to the hobby,

Charlie Stephens

[skawars1]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

skawars1,

Couple of things. It would be nice to know at least know your first name. Mr. skawars1 just doesn't have a nice ring to it (did you mother hate you when you were born and actually name you that?). Next it would be nice to know in general where you live. Are you asking about a title in Afghanistan or California? And your second question about the price. You haven't even posted a picture. It is very possible that free might be too much, or a couple of thousand reasonable. I would strongly recommend if you are just getting into the hobby that you buy one you can drive. You could very well lose interest in one that is a monumental task. I know that I am not motivated enough to tackle a '28/'29 Fordor with all off its wood. You might find the following web site interesting. I wrote this and Jim Mason was kind enough to post it on his site.

http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/wherestart.html


Best of luck and welcome to the hobby,

Charlie Stephens

My name is Brent. As this is the web I normally do not give out my real name. Anonymity and web safety are wonderful things. I should know since I work in IT. I am located in the Chicagland area. That car is downstate and will be sold tomorrow. Last month I sold my 1958 Buick Roadmaster and am looking for a new project. I think this might be it if the price is right.

[Tom Wesenberg]

From the looks of that picture I'd leave it as is and drive it. That looks like good paint and what little I can see of the inside I don't see the headliner hanging down. Depending on the wood condition I'd say $5,000 might be a good buy.

[Terry, NJ]

Are you sure it's a 29? Some things I se in the picture suggest to me that it's 30/31. I wish I could see the radiator. That's the ndefining thing for me, but The wheel look as though they're 19", not 21". The 30/31 are 19". Another thing, are there holes in the cowl, at the top, where something has been removed? Does it have a dome light in roughly the center of the cart or is the light in the back, over the window. Is there a folding arm rest between the two passengers in the rear seat? These are defining characteristics of models. Judging by what I can see it looks like it might bbe a $5000 car. Good luck!
Terry

Originally Posted by skawars1

My name is Brent. As this is the web I normally do not give out my real name. Anonymity and web safety are wonderful things. I should know since I work in IT. I am located in the Chicagland area. That car is downstate and will be sold tomorrow. Last month I sold my 1958 Buick Roadmaster and am looking for a new project. I think this might be it if the price is right.

[ronn]

I bought one like it last year here on the barn- it ran perfect and the interior was nice original
bought it for 4000. It was for sale here for almost 2 months with no bites....

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Are you sure it's a 29? Some things I se in the picture suggest to me that it's 30/31. I wish I could see the radiator. That's the ndefining thing for me, but The wheel look as though they're 19", not 21". The 30/31 are 19". Another thing, are there holes in the cowl, at the top, where something has been removed? Does it have a dome light in roughly the center of the cart or is the light in the back, over the window. Is there a folding arm rest between the two passengers in the rear seat? These are defining characteristics of models. Judging by what I can see it looks like it might bbe a $5000 car. Good luck!
Terry

Terry, What picture are you looking at ?? 100 % a 1929 including the wheels..

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Are you sure it's a 29? Some things I se in the picture suggest to me that it's 30/31. I wish I could see the radiator. That's the ndefining thing for me, but The wheel look as though they're 19", not 21". The 30/31 are 19". Another thing, are there holes in the cowl, at the top, where something has been removed? Does it have a dome light in roughly the center of the cart or is the light in the back, over the window. Is there a folding arm rest between the two passengers in the rear seat? These are defining characteristics of models. Judging by what I can see it looks like it might bbe a $5000 car. Good luck!
Terry

Everything looks 29 to me except the later headlamps. Small hubcaps on 21" wheels and the front fenders hug the wheels, where the 30-1 fenders drop down much more gradually.

[Semper Fi]

I blew the picture up to 400% and it does not have a 28/29 cowl. I agree the wheels look to be 21 inch , but that cowl goes straight down like a 30/31.

Ernie

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Semper Fi

I blew the picture up to 400% and it does not have a 28/29 cowl. I agree the wheels look to be 21 inch , but that cowl goes straight down like a 30/31.

Ernie

Yep, Briggs and Murray built bodies are like that. Ford built bodies in 28 and 29 had that neat antique looking offset, including the 4 door taxi.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Semper Fi

I blew the picture up to 400% and it does not have a 28/29 cowl. I agree the wheels look to be 21 inch , but that cowl goes straight down like a 30/31.

Ernie

You need to read up on the cowls that some (all?) of the 4 doors had. I know where you are coming from since that is not the usual '28-'29 cowl found on most body styles but that cowl is correct.

Charlie Stephens

[WTSHNN]

The Taxi Cab was the only enclosed four door Model A with what is commonly refered to as the "Coupe Pillar."

(Image linked from gwcmodela.org)

The car that Brent is talking about is not a '30 or '31.

-Tim

[Charlie Stephens]

Brent,

Now that I have your location I know that I can't help on the title question. Hopefully someone in the same state you are in will answer. My suggestion would be to contact your state motor vehicle department. In most states cars without a title are a real mess and the purchase price is usually reduced accordingly. Usually if the person just lost the title and it was registered in their name they can easily request a duplicate title.

Charlie Stephens

[gibby]

The 29 model 60c has the same cowl. The 60c had even more interior wood.

[Gary Karr]

Hi Brent,
The car you are looking at is a Briggs Standard Fordor and looks like a nice car! Here is a picture of a Murray bodied Fordor of the late Dave Lopes collection here in California. As you can see, they are a really wonderful model! Good luck. I think you should go for it.

[Aerocraft]

What has been pictured is a very stock (except for headlight buckets) 1929 Briggs 165B "Standard" sedan. Here is a picture of my 1929 Briggs 155B Town Sedan which a "deluxe" version of the sedan in question. Gar Williams

[Marco Tahtaras]

Welcome Brent,

As Gary and Gar have noted, it's a 1929 model 165-B which is a Standard Fordor with a Briggs built body. It looks like a very nice car. However looks CAN be deceiving. The pic below is for the 1930 version which is essentially identical except for the cowl. The wood frame actually is the body structure. It can get pretty bad and most of these that get torn down to replace the wood never get put back together.

Now that I've maybe scared you a little, it doesn't mean step aside. It looks like it's quite nice and maybe the bad wood is limited. The doors are similarly wood framed. If the doors resist twisting that will be a fair sign. If it turns out to be worse than expected I would definitely choose to focus on mechanical stuff and enjoy it as is for the most part.

[Charlie Stephens]

One final thought, be sure the number on the paperwork matches the number on the car. The number on the car might be an ID plate installed on the door jam by the state DMV, the motor number, or the frame number that is located under the front left corner of the body. Yes under, you have to unbolt and life the body to see the frame number. Don't settle for the body tag on the firewall or some phony VIN tag from EBAY.

Charlie Stephens

[CHuDWah]

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Originally Posted by skawars1

Are titles even available for these cars? And what is a general price for an unrestored one?

As mentioned above, the Model A VIN (actually a serial number) should be stamped on the frame rail under the left front corner of the body. If the engine is original, the same number should be stamped on the left side of the block just below the head. IL is a title state although they do not require VIN inspection on transfer, unless that has changed recently. That said, I would not buy the car unless it has a title in the seller's name and the VIN on the title matches the number on the car.

It seems the consensus on price is $5K and artdeco's rough estimate for restoration is $12K. You may not be in it to make money but, to keep things in perspective, I think you'd be doing good to sell it for what you'd have in it. Another thing to keep in mind is that IL collects tax on private sales. In this case, that will be only $25 if the purchase price is under $15K. It would be foolish to pay anywhere near that but if you did, the tax would be $750 - $1500 depending on price. Finally, IL requires liability insurance and has several license plate categories.

As for anonymity and web safety, I completely agree. There are some good folks on this forum and I can understand how they might interpret anonymity as lack of trust or having something to hide. But this forum can be read by anybody, anytime, anywhere and some of them may be not-so-good folks. And no, although I know a little about IL vehicle transactions, I ain't there!

[skawars1]

Wow. You guys are quite a knowledgeable group. I have learned allot very quickly. Looks like there is not a clear title for the car. So we decided to pass on it. Too bad since it looked like a fun project. Something way different than the 50s "chrome tank" I had before. Thank you all for your help.
B

[Carb Guy]

Looks like a Briggs body, the top of the windows are straight across . It does not have cowl lights. so it does not appear to be a town sedan, just a 4 door.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Brent,

Now that I have your location I know that I can't help on the title question. Hopefully someone in the same state you are in will answer. My suggestion would be to contact your state motor vehicle department. In most states cars without a title are a real mess and the purchase price is usually reduced accordingly. Usually if the person just lost the title and it was registered in their name they can easily request a duplicate title.

Charlie Stephens

I live in Illinois. The real down state Illinois near St. Louis. I can tell you that if there are any title concerns with this car do not buy it. The Illinois Secretary of State will not help you with title work if the title is lost or the car does not have a title. Springfield will only do a title search for the past 10 years and beyond that they will not help you. This state is not antique car friendly. Illinois has no money and they don't have the resources or competent personell that will help with complicated title work. Just make sure you have a current, valid title before you buy. They will not recognize old titles or titles that are not current even if it matches your vehicle.

[BrianBurkert]

There are lots of Model A's around. A friend of mine bought a 1931 Fordor for $6500 a few years ago. Mechanically it was great (restored) with rebuilt engine. The body, paint, and interior were very amateur but presentable as a driver with a little touching up. We had to do a little re-work on the engine, but after that is was a car you could drive anywhere and not be ashamed of it. Good handling, good brakes, cruise 50-mph no problem. Great roomy car for extended tours.

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

The Illinois Secretary of State will not help you

Ya got that right! Jesse spends too much time drumming up organ donations and not enough doing his job. I used to deal with the office in the town that sounds like a bubbly wine - they were unfriendly even before the state went broke. Course, a lot depends on the clerk you get and sometimes a smaller, less busy office is more helpful, but still don't expect much.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by skawars1

Wow. You guys are quite a knowledgeable group. I have learned allot very quickly. Looks like there is not a clear title for the car. So we decided to pass on it. Too bad since it looked like a fun project. Something way different than the 50s "chrome tank" I had before. Thank you all for your help.
B

If the price is right and the wood is OK I wouldn't let the title stop the purchase. I bought several cars without titles. My 29 and 31 Model A's cost $250 each to get the title and tax paid.

[eagle]

In Minnesota its pretty easy to get a title. "Sell" the car to a friend in Minnesota, have him register it here, then "sell" it back to you in Illinois. Its not even illegal as long as you pay the taxes for both transactions.

[Buz]

Here's a link to the auction, wonder if he was able to buy it?

http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/au...602&category=4