Pros and cons of Lincoln flatheads

[Henry Floored]

As far as this "heavy" business, when are we gong to have a true apples to apples comparison? I'd like to know power to weight ratio WITHOUT the hot rod ragazines propaganda spin.

I remember those guys always referring to Fords as "thin wall Henrys" and then in the next paragraph they talk about how heavy the Fords were.

I'll grant you that Ford V8's are typically longer but that seems like a problem the hot rodders could have gotten around fairly easy. Our Australian and Kiwi friends didn't seem to have any problems.

Neither did this guy.

[Vic Piano]

That's almost as good lookin' as a Flat Motor.

[rotorwrench]

The aftermarket crowd latched on to the better bang for the buck that the bow-tie engines gave so the Ford engines were always more expensive to build. The bow-tie V8 was always a bit more compact too but not a lot. When racers tied in with Ford products, they always did well with them. The Purple Hogs could have been bigger winners in 1955 if they hadn't had so much trouble with their front suspensions. Later on in the 60s Caroll Shelby did well with Fords and others did too. Chrysler had to do a lot of work on the Hemi to get it to beat the Ford FE 427s.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Henry Floored

I wasn't there but here is a '57 Ford putting some work in. This is a Y-block pure stock drag racer against a 60's muscle car.

https://youtu.be/LS37qHLtVrs

I thought we were talking about back in the day? If we are talking '53-'57, there was little support for the Y blocks.

Obviously, that has changed quite a bit as guys got bit by the nostalgia bug in the '90's. There are companies like Ross Racing Engines that make a good living on providing guys with hi-po, hi-hp nostalgic engines.

That said, guys there were certainly some guys who knew what they were doing (Vic Edlebrock for example) and were able to coax some impressive numbers HP numbers out of the 312, but he was not the normal, average racer. I believe his 312 also used a Paxton.

I think it was true then and it is certainly true now, SBC may be the cheapest engine to build for HP compared to the others.

Somewhere there is a chart floating around with actual engine weights. I can't recall totally, but I thought I recalled the Y blocks weighed in approx. 50-75 lbs. more than a similar sized SBC.

To be clear, I'm not a SBC fan boy (don't own one), I'm just stating some info. I've collected along the way.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The aftermarket crowd latched on to the better bang for the buck that the bow-tie engines gave so the Ford engines were always more expensive to build. The bow-tie V8 was always a bit more compact too but not a lot. When racers tied in with Ford products, they always did well with them. The Purple Hogs could have been bigger winners in 1955 if they hadn't had so much trouble with their front suspensions. Later on in the 60s Caroll Shelby did well with Fords and others did too. Chrysler had to do a lot of work on the Hemi to get it to beat the Ford FE 427s.

I'm truly asking, but I thought by the time Shelby got involved, the Y block was a footnote in Ford's history books. I do know Shelby made some serious HP with Fords 289's.

Please correct me if I'm wrong for I'd really like to know. I don't know much about Shelby's beginnings.

The 354 and 392 Hemi's seemed to be immediate hit with racers. Guys realized very early that these motors could make some serious power, especially on juice. Desoto's baby hemi was cool, but weren't able to realize the tremendous power on tap with the big hemis.

Interesting, the Hemi wasn't anything new. The French and some Italian engineers introduced the hemi-head in the race engines in the teens. Once they tore things up, Miller jumped on the design and used it in his engines.

[rotorwrench]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Dale Earnhardt's first race car the Pink & Purple K2 car was a 1956 Ford. I don't know how well he did with it though.

Curtis Turner was probably the best Ford driver of the 50s. He did well in 1956 and could have won championship if he hadn't gotten started so late in the season. He had a reputation for blowing up engines but the Y-block survived that year. Some of the stories about the crazy things he did are legend.

The 1963 fast back Galaxie 500 with the R-code FE 427 was a monster. The Hemi 426 was developed to beat it and Ford came up with the SOHC 427 and both were promptly banned from NASCAR.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Dale Earnhardt's first race car the Pink & Purple K2 car was a 1956 Ford. I don't know how well he did with it though.

Curtis Turner was probably the best Ford driver of the 50s. He did well in 1956 and could have won championship if he hadn't gotten started so late in the season. He had a reputation for blowing up engines but the Y-block survived that year. Some of the stories about the crazy things he did are legend.

Did Turner have FordMoCo support or was he an independent racer?

Funny, I'm an elementary principal and one of my parents, Rob Edelstein, wrote a book about him. It's called:

Full Throttle: The Life and Fast Times of NASCAR Legend Curtis Turner.

I'll have to read the book again, but from I recall Curtis was certainly a character.

Last question: My mechanical knowledge stops at '53, so I don't know the difference of the Y blocks and Fords FE OHV's. Do they share any lineage or are they completely different animals?

On a side note, a hard top R code Galaxie is one of my bucket list cars. I've always loved them.

[Ol' Ron]

In an effort to beat the Cheavs in the late 50's I built a 342 stroke Hilborne Fuel injected "Y" block. This drove a 37 cad/La-Sal trans. 4.11 rear in a 56 Ford HT. Unortunately it took too long to get the stupid factor undercontrol. By the time I got the engine tuned any way near right, them money just ran out and the engine was sold for 500 bucks and a rebuilt 292 Y block. It was a great education. Those Hilborns are trickiy.

[rotorwrench]

I think he started with Ford Support but somewhere in there they pulled the plug for a long time. Holman & Moody got together due to the exit of factory backing. I think Ralph Moody might have driven one of those purple hog cars.

[Jason in TX]

Video of that V12 Racer doing victory donuts

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGSV1h9upUr/

[rotorwrench]

[QUOTE=Last question: My mechanical knowledge stops at '53, so I don't know the difference of the Y blocks and Fords FE OHV's. Do they share any lineage or are they completely different animals? [/QUOTE]


The Y blocks share some similarities in induction systems with the MEL (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) blocks of the later 50s even though one is a small block and the other is more of a medium to large block but the FE (Ford-Edsel) has a different induction system design even though is shares some characteristics in valve train of the earlier Y-block and is considered a medium block. The early 1958 332 and later 352 FEs were disappointing in performance standards but the 390 that came along in 1961 was a good one. The later 427 & 428 engines had a lot more torque and horsepower.

[Vic Piano]

I'm curious to know just how many FordBarner's are looking to build HV-12's and/or 337's to race? I've got a V-12 in my '39 LZ and a 337 in my '49 Cosmo, they are excellent cruisin' engines in their intended vehicles. I, for one, don't feel the need for speed between traffic lights, in the Cosmo or the Zephyr however, I'm certainly not opposed to putting a little eye candy on them.

[Pilot31135]

Here is my Lincoln/Ford 337...

[Newc]

Hi all; Did'nt the Munz cars use 337's. Some had aluminum heads ect. I think I saw one on HAMB. Newc

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Fordors

Airborne? I don't think of that as much of a performance benchmark. We used to do that in a friend's '59 Galaxie with a 292, and five guys in the car.

Yeah, but that car had a lot of lightweight metal in it . . . AKA beer cans! LOL

[AnthonyG]

Funny story related to V8 Lincoln Flatty. 4 years ago I bought my '35. Was my first early ford. Knew practically nothing about them as I was a GM muscle car Motörhead at the time. As guys with mechanical ability do, assumed I knew enough. It was before finding The Barn so after seeing how much running or rebuilt Ford Flatty's were I pulled the trigger on a running Lincoln V8 Flatty for $600. Well needless to say it wasn't the easy slip in I thought so better late than never I found FB and got an earful as a lot of what I'm reading in this thread and remembering, lol. I lucked out, I called the guy who sold it to me and told him my sad tail. Unbelievably after he sold to me and delivered a guy building a rat rod wanted it and offered the guy $1400 if he could find another running Licoln V8 Flatty. The guy payed for shipping to the other guy, gave me $200 more than I payed and I sent it to the new guy. That being said they are cheaper although hard to find but a lot more Engineering, hard work & time to fit correctly in an early Ford.

[5851a]

A friend bought a large truck with the Lincoln engine, it was a long time ago but it seemed to me that the Lincoln just bolted to the same holes in the frame that were there for the flathead 6. The radiator support was also in the forward position like a 6. Remember thinking at the time if your Ford could have came with a 6 then there should be room for the Lincoln. As far as the weight part of, it a late 70's Ford 460 with a fridgeair AC. Saginaw PS. delco starter has to weigh half ton.

[41ford1]

Originally Posted by Jason in TX

Video of that V12 Racer doing victory donuts

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGSV1h9upUr/

Look again. That's a 337 V8.

[Pilot31135]

Regardless of which side your on regarding the Lincoln flathead, I hope we could all agree that at least it's a fairly rare engine being made from late 1948-1951, and it has a cool sound just like the smaller flathead...

https://youtu.be/JjW_Z3r5rDg

[Jason in TX]

I wanted to comment on the above post about the desirability of the SBC in the 1950s.

I'm pretty sure the 1955 Corvette product that was wrapped around the 265 cu.in. SBC had a lot to do with that desirability. That race looking body and suspension showing up at the tracks and in magazines. Seeing those new factory available race cars would make me want to put one of those mills in my Ford if I was around in the 1950s.

Car and Driver did a test of the TEN fastest 1950s cars and FIVE of them were the Corvette, one the 1958 Chevy Del Ray, and then the 1957 Porsche, 1958 Ferrari Europa and the 1959 Ferrari california Spyder.

And who was responsible for that??? Zora Arkus-Duntov! The Godfather of the Corvette,

....but also the inventor of the Ardun OHV conversion for the Ford Flathead.

(see how I brought it back to the Ford Flathead?)