cylinder sleevesMachine Shop question.

[harleynut]

Machine Shop question. I was never in the position to how they replace the sleeves in an engine. Are the old sleeves pressed out, new sleeves pressed in? What holds them in place after there in? Just a jam fit? Might sound like a newbe question, but I never seen the process done.

[1946]

I stand to be corrected on this, and probably will be, but no matter. When I had my A model motor cleaned I was advised to have two 'rescue sleeves fitted. The method that was employed was to bore out the cylinder to a push fit size of the sleeve, but... leaving a ridge at the bottom of the orignal bore for the sleeve to fit up against and stop it protruding out the bottom of the bore. The top of the cylinder block was given a surface grind so removing any excess. Putting the head on held the every thing in place. Motor is then re bored to fit the piston. I have heard of them being shrink fitted, the block is heated in an oven, the sleeve put in a freezer, after a suitable number of hours sleeve fitted to the block, which has been under bored to fit the sleeve. The final method was to bore the block and pin the sleeve at the base through the cylinder walls.
Any one with other methods?

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by 1946

I stand to be corrected on this, and probably will be, but no matter. When I had my A model motor cleaned I was advised to have two 'rescue sleeves fitted. The method that was employed was to bore out the cylinder to a push fit size of the sleeve, but... leaving a ridge at the bottom of the orignal bore for the sleeve to fit up against and stop it protruding out the bottom of the bore. The top of the cylinder block was given a surface grind so removing any excess. Putting the head on held the every thing in place. Motor is then re bored to fit the piston. I have heard of them being shrink fitted, the block is heated in an oven, the sleeve put in a freezer, after a suitable number of hours sleeve fitted to the block, which has been under bored to fit the sleeve. The final method was to bore the block and pin the sleeve at the base through the cylinder walls.
Any one with other methods?

.0015 to .002 press fit with a shoulder at the bottom. Freeze sleeve, warm block and drive in with a Hardwood block then file flat or mill deck.
Bill

[midgetracer]

totally agree with Bill, the engine is bored out to a press fit with about an 1/8 inch lip left on the bottom of the cylinder wall. the sleeve is chilled and pressed into the block and then the block is decked and the cylinder is bored and honed to the desired size, there is no holding in place by the head. Thin wall steel sleeves for the V8 engine are a different process. the old thin wall sleeve is broken out and a new one is chilled and pressed in. No boring is required. Model A engines did not have factory sleeves and the cast iron sleeves are only installed when a cylinder cannot be bored to a desired size.

[redmodelt]

never mind

[hardtimes]

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Originally Posted by harleynut

Machine Shop question. I was never in the position to how they replace the sleeves in an engine. Are the old sleeves pressed out, new sleeves pressed in? What holds them in place after there in? Just a jam fit? Might sound like a newbe question, but I never seen the process done.

Hey Harley,
If you look up/search for sleeve makers / sellers, you will find that there are different methods of installing sleeves. Some are real interesting !
Tod , member here, is putting sleeves into two aluminum A/B blocks and using one of the modern approach methods.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I've removed sleeves by running a bead of welding the length of the sleeve. When the weld cools, it shrinks the sleeve just enough to loosen it. It might even take 2 or 3 beads of weld.


Be sure to protect babbit from any weld splatter, and be sure any splatter is removed from the block.

[Keith True]

The flathead V8 was a sleeved engine???

[Kurt in NJ]

Some V8 were factory sleeved with a thin case hardened sleeve that could be changed in the chassis, it was prefinished, no boring or honing needed, many had steel pistons too, they were installed during rebuilding too, pistons went to .060, after that sleeves

made overhaul easy, no need to take out studs to bore
There were also thick iron sleeves that were prefinished, honed to size

[Keith True]

I never knew the flathead V8 series had any sleeved engines.All my flat 8 experience has been with the later 48-53 engines,I just had them bored.I have done probably hundreds of dry sleeves in machinery.Mack,Perkins,early Ford,Farmall.I still have a couple dozen sleeve in the boxes for the N-series Fords.But,those are all meant-to-replace sleeves,not bore to fit repair sleeves.I have some sleeve cutters for the Ford.It is a shaped chisel that you drive between the block and the sleeve,splitting the sleeve.I have a bunch of pucks made up to pull the sleeves out of other engines.

[J and M Machine]

Originally Posted by harleynut

Machine Shop question. I was never in the position to how they replace the sleeves in an engine. Are the old sleeves pressed out, new sleeves pressed in? What holds them in place after there in? Just a jam fit? Might sound like a newbe question, but I never seen the process done.

Block is machined to accept the oversize sleeve and sleeve is a press fit into block.
While there are different types of sleeves whether they secure from top or bottom.
The sleeves for typical Model A Ford application are a straight sleeve and need a step in bottom of block to be held secure.

Contrary to one poster on this site saying that there isn't heat transfer through the sleeve and engine will run hotter isn't true as the sleeve is same material as block.
Looking at pictures I've posted shows the work. Once sleeve is installed very hard to see where block begins and sleeve ends.

http://www.jandm-machine.com/cylinde...gSleeving.html

[katy]

Some V8 were factory sleeved with a thin case hardened sleeve that could be changed in the chassis, it was prefinished, no boring or honing needed, many had steel pistons too, they were installed during rebuilding too, pistons went to .060, after that sleeves

I had one flathead V-8 that had .125" OS pistons in it, no sleeves.

[Afordman31]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I've removed sleeves by running a bead of welding the length of the sleeve. When the weld cools, it shrinks the sleeve just enough to loosen it. It might even take 2 or 3 beads of weld.


Be sure to protect babbit from any weld splatter, and be sure any splatter is removed from the block.

Tom, I have done the same thing as you but with a bearing cup or race that was in a blind bore ( run a bead of weld inside to shrink race). When done it will practically fall out.
One fellow at work figured he could get a bearing that the balls and outer race were broken off by welding on the outside of the part that was on a rubber roll shaft.
guess what .... it shrunk the bearing on the shaft tighter than the press fit that it originally had. He then drove it off but the shaft was sleeved and that came off also. He sent the rubber roll out to be recovered and the company that was recovering it called and wanted to know if they should resleeve the roll or send it back to our shop to be repaired. Our boss was pretty upset at the fellow that messed up the journal and sent it out that way!

[ursus]

A few years ago I needed to resleeve a galled cylinder and left it with an automotive machine shop for repair and rebore. The machinist placed a sleeve that was about 1/8 inch longer than the cylinder, which extended by that dimension beyond the bottom, and pinned it in place. I asked why he didn't secure the sleeve in the usual manner, as described here by others, and he just scoffed at the notion. I suspect he placed a sleeve that was designed for something other than a Model A engine. The sad part is that a major crack started from the exact location of the pin and I had to junk the engine. That machine shop is no longer in business.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by J and M Machine

Block is machined to accept the oversize sleeve and sleeve is a press fit into block.
While there are different types of sleeves whether they secure from top or bottom.
The sleeves for typical Model A Ford application are a straight sleeve and need a step in bottom of block to be held secure.

Contrary to one poster on this site saying that there isn't heat transfer through the sleeve and engine will run hotter isn't true as the sleeve is same material as block.
Looking at pictures I've posted shows the work. Once sleeve is installed very hard to see where block begins and sleeve ends.

http://www.jandm-machine.com/cylinde...gSleeving.html

Beautiful work, as usual !
Hm, I've got that same color finger nail polish...

[harleynut]

Thanks Guys.....learned a lot, great answers

[joel rapose]

I have installed many sleeves...you bore the block .125 over to accept the sleeve...the best way is to leave a ridge at the bottom 1/8 to 1/4" high...but if you bore using a hone type machine you can not leave the ridge (most modern shops only have hones) then I freeze the sleeve and heat the block with a rosebud torch tip..and press the sleeves in with a block of wood...I like to use a .002 press fit...if you use a hone...you will have to spot weld at the bottom of the sleeve to the block to keep it in...(I do not like to do that but you really have not much choice..there is no tension there so it does work...and is common practice...kinda hard to find anyone today that knows how to use a boring bar...(to leave that edge) To freeze the sleeves you need to do that with dry ice...and be quick inserting the sleeves..use a block of wood and a #3 hammer.

[gustafson]

"Contrary to one poster on this site saying that there isn't heat transfer through the sleeve and engine will run hotter isn't true"

J and M, that poster can be highly opinionated. Helpful to get the straight scoop from a builder. Now i won't be afraid to get my motor sleeved.....

[1946]

Bill is correct, I miss lead by the fact the head held the sleeves in place...sorry, the cylinder is bored for a press fit and as the process says is held by a press fit ..not by the head.