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01-28-2020, 05:57 AM | #21 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
Between this and the prior postings:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...+53%27+Mercury My hope is that someone else will be able to use it in the future. |
01-28-2020, 06:42 AM | #22 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
How would distributor orientation have anything to do with pulley-TDC location??
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01-28-2020, 08:23 AM | #23 | |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
Quote:
The TDC button (timing mark) on the far left, on the pulley, is the correct TDC (actually 2 degrees off). The mark on the far right of the pulley was the "artificial" TDC with the distributor one tooth off. |
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01-28-2020, 08:39 AM | #24 | |
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Re: Pulley casting number
Quote:
The issue is that in order to get the timing correct, the vacuum pod is literally pushed into the thermostat housing, and will not allow any further rotation/ advance adjustment. Have you seen this previously? |
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01-28-2020, 09:21 AM | #25 | |
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Re: Pulley casting number
Quote:
Yes, had the same situation. You can rotate the distributor and rotor 1 tooth clock wise, remembering to keep the rotor at the same #1 cap location. This moves the distributor about 32 .72° or 1 inch at the cap O.D.
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01-28-2020, 09:25 AM | #26 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
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01-28-2020, 09:37 AM | #27 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
Correct that you could make any cap location #1 but if just rotating the distributor corrects the problem why relocate wires?
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01-28-2020, 10:18 AM | #28 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
BUT moving the distributor one tooth doesn't change the TDC location on the pulley. The OP said he verified the TDC using the cable tie method to be about 1 1/2" in advance of the factory timing button. The car ran well while timed to the verified location. It seems all he has done is moved the distributor one notch and retimed it to the factory button. How does it run now?
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01-28-2020, 11:03 AM | #29 | |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
Quote:
This should have read: "verified the TDC using the cable tie method to be about 1 1/2" in advance of the of the new TDC mark on the pulley." Sorry for the confusion. Starts easier and sounds good. It snowed last night, so the test run will be some time this weekend, once the roads are clear again. Also this confirms, my timing light, works as it should.The timing light was the first suspect. |
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01-28-2020, 11:09 AM | #30 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
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01-28-2020, 12:11 PM | #31 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
Back in the day when I was buying $100 junkers for my daily transportation, just about all of them would benefit greatly with a simple tune-up. I would be willing to bet that over half of the cars I worked on had the plug wires in the wrong positions. It was just easier to change the wires than to re-stab an improperly installed distributor. I had a '68 Corvette that had a mis-wired distributor and a slipped harmonic balancer. The car ran great the way it was, but it took me over a year to figure out what was wrong and fix it. The only symptom was that it wouldn't run for shit when it appeared to be timed correctly.
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01-28-2020, 03:31 PM | #32 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
Here is the point---If the engine performed BEST with timing flashing 1 1/2 inches from TDC it should continue running at its best at that 1 1/2 inch location no matter how many distributor teeth are relocated.
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01-28-2020, 04:14 PM | #33 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
I've had a hard time following this for the same reason, not sure what is really going on here.
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01-28-2020, 04:41 PM | #34 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
Me, too, JSeery. Here's my understanding and summary. The PO's car was timed to the factory marks and hesitating, spitting. He found a mark scribed on the lock down pad (I think) of the distributor and set the timing to that mark. The engine ran good, but the new timing was about 1 1/2" advanced from the factory mark. He was advised to locate TDC with the cable tie method. He did and it verified his advanced timing mark as TDC, about 1 1/2" advanced of the factory mark. He explored the possibility of the wrong crank pulley and was advised (because of the position of his rotor) to rotate his distributor one tooth and re-time. Here is where it gets unclear to me. Without giving specifics, he indicated the problem was solved. So I'm assuming he moved the distributor one tooth and re-timed to factory marks and it runs well. We know that rotating the distributor won't change the TDC indicator, unless something else has changed.
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01-28-2020, 07:00 PM | #35 | |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
Quote:
When I used the timing light, for some reason it was 1 1/2" off the timing button. I posted the question, why? I have attached a picture of the pulley with the factory timing marks (on the left) and the location of the artificial TDC in silver marker, that is one tooth off (on the right) when using a timing light. My goal was to find out why and then correct the situation to use the factory timing marks. There were many suggestion and questions during the course of the discussion. The final solution, was that the distributor was off on tooth. If I pulled the distributor up and rotated it one tooth (counter clock wise), I would then be able to use a timing light and the original factory timing mark on the pulley. Bottom line, I did move the distributor back one tooth and now, I am able to use the timing light in conjunction with the factory timing dot on the pulley. Problem solved. |
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01-29-2020, 05:06 AM | #36 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
I am afraid this is not yet understood. Changing distributor teeth has NOTHING to do with the relationship between the timing light and the pulley marker for where best performance is achieved. Where the light flashes on the pulley/pointer is the actual ignition timing. If the engine ran at it's best with the flashing light 1 1/2 inches beyond the pointer it will continue to do so no matter which distributor tooth is engaged. Changing tooth engagement does not impact the relationship between spark timing and best engine performance.
Of course connecting the light to the wrong plug wire will alter results. |
01-29-2020, 10:25 AM | #37 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
The cable tie method of finding TDC ia a time honored method of finding TDC. If you on't like this method just remove the head and use a positive stop. The object here is to find TDC. "THen" we can deal with timing the engine. Thanks Bruce!
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01-29-2020, 10:31 AM | #38 | |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
Quote:
I agree with your statement: "If the engine ran at it's best with the flashing light 1 1/2 inches beyond the pointer it will continue to do so no matter which distributor tooth is engaged.", but I wanted it to run where the timing light was pointed at the timing "dot" on the pulley. In order to do that I had to move the distributor one tooth CCW. That is all what the post was about, nothing more. Sorry for the confusion. |
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01-29-2020, 03:22 PM | #39 |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
I think I'm getting brain cramp but I'm tossing this out there as my conclusion.
Consider that the distributor lobe has 8 positions, each dedicated to its own cylinder in the firing order. Moving the the rotor 1 tooth, moves the #1 position closer to either #5 or #2 position on the cap (depending on direction rotor was moved. The #1 position is now using either #5 or #2 position on the lobe. So now when a timing light is used on #1 wire the signal is really giving an indication of timing for either #5 or #2 position. That is why it will not show correct reading on indicator. If when the problem was first detected, the timing light was connected to the #5 or #2 wire the pointer and dot would have been illuminated..
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01-29-2020, 05:35 PM | #40 | |
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Re: Distribator off by one tooth - Pulley casting number
Quote:
Picture #4 - First the timing mark on the pulley is aligned with the timing pin mounted to the front of the timing cover, on the compression stroke. Picture #1 - distributor cap with arrow pointing to wire for #1 cylinder Picture #2 - original location of rotor Picture #3 - location of rotor after moving it CCW one tooth |
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