Gas tank leaking

[johnbuckley]

Friend has left hand drive 1930 Tudor. Fuel is leaking from the left side of the tank. I assume the leak is from the steering column bracket.. Two questions for the Ford Barners
a) Is there any simple effective remedy other than removing tank?
b) How do you remove the tank from a 1930 Tudor ?

[flatford39]

It unbolts and you lift it out the top. Pretty straight forward. The hardest part is putting it back in with new welting. the welting is a PITA. You will see the bolts if you look underneath the tank. There are bolts thru the firewall as well as each cowl side. Don't lose the brackets.

[johnbuckley]

Thanks, Is there a diagram anywhere of where it's bolted and what to remove to access it?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

John, there are all kinds of "remedies" but the brutal fact is none of them work as well as properly opening the tank and making the proper repairs. Feel free to contact me privately and I will walk you thru the process.


To remove, drain the tank of fuel and remove the lines. The wiring and speedometer cable will need to be removed from the instrument panel and the tank tunnel, and remove the column clamp. The hood and the cowl band will need to be removed also along with the windshield filler panel. Next remove the kick panels and tank clamps, followed by the tank fasteners. There are a few other steps that I can share with you privately as not to fill the page here with words.


Personally, I have found the tank and cowl welt is really not that hard to install. While I cannot recall the exact number, it is something like 300 seconds is what Ford allotted to install the tank with the welting and fasten it down as the body was going down the assembly line. The two biggest reasons why restorers seem to have struggles in this area is that they do not cut the welting correctly, -and they use the incorrect type.

[midgetracer]

Brent, where can I find directions to cut the welt and what is the correct type?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by midgetracer

Brent, where can I find directions to cut the welt and what is the correct type?

I'm pretty sure a copy of the print is available at the archives as I think I have seen it. Marco also had pictures posted here of an original piece removed from a vehicle. I have one too. That is also what I use for a sample to cut the new anti-squeak to the correct shape.

[johnbuckley]

Thank you.
John B

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by johnbuckley

Friend has left hand drive 1930 Tudor. Fuel is leaking from the left side of the tank. I assume the leak is from the steering column bracket.. Two questions for the Ford Barners
a) Is there any simple effective remedy other than removing tank?
b) How do you remove the tank from a 1930 Tudor ?

When it comes to fuel leaks in a Model A, the only solution for safety is to fix it right! And that requires removing the tank, and taking it to a radiator shop or some place similar and getting the tank rust cleaned out, and have a pro review if the tank is repairable. Once that is established, ya gotta do what ya gotta do to be safe. Gasoline is dangerous stuff.

Here locally, there is a radiator repair shop in Springfield, Mo that will take Model A gas tanks and repair them and coat the inside to stop the rusting. Have not had to do it yet, but if I do, that will be the avenue I take on fixing a fuel tank leak.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by DHZIEMAN

When it comes to fuel leaks in a Model A, the only solution for safety is to fix it right! And that requires removing the tank, and taking it to a radiator shop or some place similar and getting the tank rust cleaned out, and have a pro review if the tank is repairable. Once that is established, ya gotta do what ya gotta do to be safe. Gasoline is dangerous stuff.

Here locally, there is a radiator repair shop in Springfield, Mo that will take Model A gas tanks and repair them and coat the inside to stop the rusting. Have not had to do it yet, but if I do, that will be the avenue I take on fixing a fuel tank leak.

Two things to ask when you take the tank in for repairs.


1) Ask them what they will use to de-rust the inside of the tank. Most radiator shops no longer have the proper chemicals in their tanks to effectively do this. Even if they say Caustic, please know that Sodium Hydroxide will dissolve organic matter however it has no affect on rust.


2) Ask them what type of sealer, -and how will they know if it is truly coated inside?


A quart of sealer IMHO is not enough to coat the inside of a tank, --and even 1 gallon is not enough to slosh a tank with and know that it coated all sides of the baffles. If they slosh/coat the tank however it does not cover all of the areas, then you have a mess on your hands as the bare metal areas begin to rust. It honestly takes a minimum of 4 gallons to coat all the walls including the baffles, and most radiator shops will not have that quantity of material on-hand because once exposed to the atmosphere, it must be used in a short time period.

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Two things to ask when you take the tank in for repairs.


1) Ask them what they will use to de-rust the inside of the tank. Most radiator shops no longer have the proper chemicals in their tanks to effectively do this. Even if they say Caustic, please know that Sodium Hydroxide will dissolve organic matter however it has no affect on rust.


2) Ask them what type of sealer, -and how will they know if it is truly coated inside?


A quart of sealer IMHO is not enough to coat the inside of a tank, --and even 1 gallon is not enough to slosh a tank with and know that it coated all sides of the baffles. If they slosh/coat the tank however it does not cover all of the areas, then you have a mess on your hands as the bare metal areas begin to rust. It honestly takes a minimum of 4 gallons to coat all the walls including the baffles, and most radiator shops will not have that quantity of material on-hand because once exposed to the atmosphere, it must be used in a short time period.

Thanks. Good info to have! I had spent about 20 min on the phone with the owner, and had a good feel for what the EPA allows him to do or not do. He spent most of his time discussing Radiators, I brought up gas tanks. He said they do them too, but the info you are providing, is good to know before and not after!!!

[barnstuf]

The year was 1947 and the gas tank on my 1930 Coupe was seeping gas at the steering column bracket. Just a seep, not a bad leak, but it was ruining the floor mat and the gas odor was obvious.

An old timer ran an auto repair shop nearby and I went to see him. He said "sure I can fix it, I have done several. Go to the town dump and get a steering column bracket from a junked 1931 Model A and come and see me next week" he said. Next week rolled around and I went to see him again. He said take a walk for a half hour or so. When I returned he was installing the bracket from a 1931 I found at the town dump. I asked him what he did but he was very reticent. He said something about draining the gas tank and using dry ice in the tank while he repaired the exterior. He would not provide further details.

More than 70 years have passed and the tank has never leaked a drop. The 1931 bracket is doing its job.

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by barnstuf

The year was 1947 and the gas tank on my 1930 Coupe was seeping gas at the steering column bracket. Just a seep, not a bad leak, but it was ruining the floor mat and the gas odor was obvious.

An old timer ran an auto repair shop nearby and I went to see him. He said "sure I can fix it, I have done several. Go to the town dump and get a steering column bracket from a junked 1931 Model A and come and see me next week" he said. Next week rolled around and I went to see him again. He said take a walk for a half hour or so. When I returned he was installing the bracket from a 1931 I found at the town dump. I asked him what he did but he was very reticent. He said something about draining the gas tank and using dry ice in the tank while he repaired the exterior. He would not provide further details.

More than 70 years have passed and the tank has never leaked a drop. The 1931 bracket is doing its job.

Dry ice is frozen Carbon Dioxide! It has been used for years in Fire extinguishers. I would venture, your repair involved welding or soldering in some fashion, with the dry ice being used to keep the gas tank filled with Carbon Dioxide to be as safe as possible with the repair. I would venture repairing the exterior upside down involved brazing or welding. Good to hear it has held up against the test of time! (and lots of bumps)

[barnstuf]

To DHZIEMAN

To me the repair looks like solder. The leak was on the upper joint of the bracket to the tank. Still holding tight after over 70 years.

The old time mechanics taught or showed me Model A repair and maintenance tricks I still do today. For example in the days before miracle adhesives, and torque wrenches, we used chassis grease as a sealant and "tighten firmly".

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by barnstuf

To DHZIEMAN

To me the repair looks like solder. The leak was on the upper joint of the bracket to the tank. Still holding tight after over 70 years.

The old time mechanics taught or showed me Model A repair and maintenance tricks I still do today. For example in the days before miracle adhesives, and torque wrenches, we used chassis grease as a sealant and "tighten firmly".

My dad who taught me, on gasket seating, always used wheel bearing or chassis grease to set the gaskets. The only ones that got sticky stuff were pan gaskets and valve cover gaskets And on some pan gaskets, held em in place with string ties! He had worked for Pabst Blue Ribbon in the 30's overhauling engines for trucks making the beer runs from Wisconsin to Chicago, and running empty barrels and bottles back to Wisconsin. He then moved on to Edward Hines lumber in Chicago in the 40's and did the same. He had another little trick to keep in mind, Eventually on vehicles with Babbit bearings, Ya run out of shims to take out. He told me, the best babbitt was closest to the metal it was bonded to! When he got down to no more shims, he would take the cap, and carefully file the cap a bit, and fit it to the bearing journal. Surprisingly, on his Model A and on my 48 Chevy, it worked like a champ!