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05-20-2013, 07:46 AM | #1 |
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Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Heard about this from a fella at a local show , and wondered if you guys had ever heard of it , and if you thought there was any merit to it .
Was looking at the engine of an "A" , and noticed that there were about five , "wooden clothes pins " , clipped to the gas line just ahead of the fitting in the carb . Asked the guy why , and he said that he was having trouble with it stalling on him after driving short distances and couldnt figure out why . Then he remembered his Grandpa doing it with his car back in the day , saying it drawed heat away from the fuel line . He said he hasent had the problem since putting them on . ??? I enjoy hereing these old remides , whether they work or not . |
05-20-2013, 07:57 AM | #2 | |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Quote:
The topic about the engine stalling has been argued to the hilt here in the past as to whether 'vapor lock' is the cause for this. Interesting reading if you are a by-stander IMHO!! Some (-me included) feel like a good chassis & body ground, along with engine pans will usually cure this problem. |
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05-20-2013, 08:34 AM | #3 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
I can remember my uncle's '51 Ford V8 back in the mid-50's. He must have had 20 clothespins on his fuel line between the pump and the carb. Remember him telling my dad how it stopped his engine stalling (vapor lock?) problems.
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05-20-2013, 08:38 AM | #4 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Rusty water blowing back from the leaking water pump should keep the clothes pins wet? Just a guess.
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05-20-2013, 08:50 AM | #5 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Good place to hang freshly laundered shop rags. The fan and hot air dries them quickly. When your rags are dry the fuel line will heat and vapor lock, automatically shutting off your drier.
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05-20-2013, 09:01 AM | #6 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
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The only basis for the clothes pin trick working that I can conceive of is possibly as a vibration dampener on the fuel line: vibrations will encourage bubble formation in an otherwise metastable slightly superheated liquid. But, that too seems pretty farfetched to me. The whole business is very controversial. Some folks even claim that it's impossible for a gravity fed-no fuel pump system to have vapor lock (by their definition). Search under "vapor lock" and you'll hear it all. However, there is no doubt that fuel vaporization can occur in the fuel line, whether or not it causes a problem is another question. Here's a picture of a vapor bubble I could watch build up in the top of my sediment bowl, and then burp on down the line, and repeat endlessly with motor idling smoothly on a hot day. The problem is undoubtedly aggravated by addition of ethanol to gasoline, which raises the fuel's vapor pressure. Gasoline starts to boil around 100 degrees F, then boiling point goes up as the lighter fractions leave. There's always a rash of vapor lock threads on the forum about this time of the year, as folks burn off their winter blend gasoline and the gas stations transition to the higher-boiling summer blend. Paradoxically, folks who live down south often report never having vapor lock issues even though it's much hotter down there. I believe that's because they only ever are sold a higher-boiling blend. Steve Last edited by steve s; 05-20-2013 at 09:16 AM. |
05-20-2013, 09:07 AM | #7 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Humble Opinion:
One may say that in the past 5 years or so, the two (2) Model A Forums have advertised more about buying clothes pins to place on Model A gas lines than the clothes pins manufacturer's have advertised about buying clothes pins to place on clothes line. |
05-20-2013, 10:52 AM | #8 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
60 years ago it was done a lot. Don't know if it did any good. I never did it back then LOL Bill
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05-20-2013, 11:16 AM | #9 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Post #6 by Steve S is spot-on. There are many old wives tales still circulating amoung us. Such as "heat rises". First year engineering students would fall for it every time.
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05-20-2013, 11:19 AM | #10 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Its always seemed to me that the clothes pins would be insulating the fuel line. Wood sure isn't a good conductor.
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05-20-2013, 12:43 PM | #11 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
I saw that lots when I was a kid,I would ask what they were on there for and somebody would answer,vapor lock.Years later I found I was getting half of the story.The clothespins were on there to keep the tin foil wrapped around the line from unraveling.The foil would fall apart anyway,but the pins would stay.I think a lot of that kind of stuff got instilled into us as little kids and we would take it as gospel.Kind of like the old guy here that says Ford used the old packing crates to make the wood frames for the bodies,he was told that in 1940 and you will never convince him otherwise.
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05-20-2013, 01:51 PM | #12 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
My first car a 1950 chevy back in 1962, especially on hot days it would vapor lock (at least that's what we called it).an old man told me to put clothes pins on the fuel line . I did and know more trouble. Can't explain the reason why it worked . If anyone is having trouble with (vapor locking). Or thinks that's what it is , try the clothes pins. whats it going to hurt.
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05-20-2013, 02:26 PM | #13 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
The concept is absurd.....
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05-20-2013, 02:54 PM | #14 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
The addition of Marvel Mystery Oil to the fuel, seems to alleviate some of the ethane problems, but not all. I use a braided type material that is used to wrap small steam tracing tubing lines that are used in many large industrial process plants. The material is a braided replacement for asbestos. 1" wide x 3/16" thick. Wrapped around the tubing, and wired tight at both ends. IMO I don't believe they had that much problem with the heavier fuel of days gone by, and with the first cast iron design sediment bowl. For the mechanical engineers on this subject.....does NPSH enter into this at all ?
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05-20-2013, 03:02 PM | #15 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Sounds to me a bit like the man running down the railroad track waving a clothes pin in his hand over his head while trying to warn the engineer of an approaching train that there was a wash-out on the line ahead.
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05-20-2013, 04:00 PM | #16 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Chief put a clothespin on a stray cat's tail, he NEVER came back! Bill W.
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05-20-2013, 04:13 PM | #17 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
vapor lock is real, but not in the fuel line, its in the fuel pump, vapor there causes the pump to lose its prime, fuel pumps wont suck and pump vapors, model a,s with no fuel pump doesnt have that problem, it has the problem of the carb getting hot and boiling the gas in the fuel bowl, thus no gas there to be sucked into the engine to burn, only vapors, the vapors in the fuel bowl has enough pressure to stop any fuel flowing into carb ( thats my story and im sticking to it )
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05-20-2013, 04:21 PM | #18 | |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Quote:
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05-20-2013, 04:27 PM | #19 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Never had Vapor Lock with my A, Even in High 90's in Florida.
Years ago, saw some of these being used, at the Drag Strip, filled with ice. Maybe those that think they have Vapor Lock, could build a smaller Version than the one in the Photo. |
05-20-2013, 04:36 PM | #20 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Yep, called a "COOL-CAN" common at the strips here in the HOT valley. Bill W.
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05-20-2013, 04:39 PM | #21 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
OK I'll bite! What do you mean heat doesn't rise? I know there is no such thing as cold. Only the absence of heat,down to -460* or whatever absolute zero is. Is this the same as ford 3 is saying re vapor LOCK vs vapor caused liquid fuel STARVATION? Chuck
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05-20-2013, 04:58 PM | #22 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Dog here, so, Brother Chuck, is intelligence just the abscency of idiocy? Or visa-versa Or versa- visa Buster T.
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05-20-2013, 05:34 PM | #23 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Were going to use the plastic clothes pins. they come in so many different colors!
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05-20-2013, 06:28 PM | #24 | |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Quote:
Joe K
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05-20-2013, 06:50 PM | #25 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Chief passed 11 years ago & is probably up there, laughin' at US as we over- complicate such a SIMPLE car! Bill W.
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05-20-2013, 10:42 PM | #26 | |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
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05-20-2013, 11:09 PM | #27 | |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Quote:
Thermodynamics 101
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05-21-2013, 01:52 AM | #28 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Thank God I've never seen this before reading about it as I would have insulted the owner by laughing so hard as to cry.
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05-21-2013, 06:34 PM | #29 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
I recommend you stay with the WOOD type, LMAO!
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05-21-2013, 07:15 PM | #30 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Do "they" still make clothespins?? Plugged in my iron after years of non-use, it stunk SO bad, I cooled it off & "tossed" it! Do "they" iron stuff nowadays?? I hope NOT! Bill W.
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05-21-2013, 07:42 PM | #31 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
I haven't ironed my cloths since high school days, but I still hang them on the line outside. Nothing like a solar drier. It saves on the electric bill so I can buy more Model A parts.
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05-22-2013, 07:15 AM | #32 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Some of our old geezers were not rocket scientists bu they got the job done. Another good example !
Thanks, Al |
05-22-2013, 10:34 AM | #33 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
No fuel pump in As, therefore no vapor lock. The problem is IMO, the fuel line can get hot, and Mylar will reflect the heat away. However, the issue is the float bowl boils the fuel & the A will fuel starve. Heat can be transferred from the exhaust pipe to the air maze to the carb. In addition side valvers have the fuel entering the system( carb) right at the hottest spot... the exhaust manifold. Without engine pans heat resonates from the road surface and adds to the issue. With 0 fuel pump pressure gas will boil sooner. #2, these "vapor lock" issues always pop up in the spring. This, of course, is when the weather gets warm and there is all that WINTER gas still in the tank. Recommend, that the winter fuel be drained and new fresh summer fuel be added. Put the old stuff in your newer vehicle that pushes @25 psi into the injectors. Radiators work the same way ... boiling temp rises with pressure @ 3 degrees per lb of psi. Ron
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05-22-2013, 11:08 AM | #34 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
I think we should use clothes pins and magnets taped to the fuel line.
That would really confuse onlookers. |
05-22-2013, 02:30 PM | #35 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
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05-22-2013, 02:32 PM | #36 |
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05-22-2013, 03:15 PM | #37 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Quote:
Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON Do "they" still make clothespins?? Plugged in my iron after years of non-use, it stunk SO bad, I cooled it off & "tossed" it! Do "they" iron stuff nowadays?? I hope NOT! Bill W. end quote Yep, they sure do and we still use them as intended. There are some local laws around here outlawing clothes lines, afterall, I live in NY. I tend to ignore laws that don't suit me. We still irons too, I don't like wrinkles ! |
05-22-2013, 04:20 PM | #38 | |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Quote:
Terry |
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05-22-2013, 04:41 PM | #39 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
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05-22-2013, 10:13 PM | #40 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
My Model A developed vapor lock while I lived in Colorado. When the air temp got to be 100 F in the shad, it would occur.
I just do not understand other people on this forum claim that it can't happen ? They were not in my car....I was !! Marc |
05-23-2013, 01:06 AM | #41 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
But not as much as my skinny girlfriend does.
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05-23-2013, 05:38 AM | #42 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
The clothes pins do 2 functions: Keep eternal heat away from the fuel lines; make excellent conversation starters; a fuel line is as good a place to store them as any, I use several as antirattle wedges.
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05-23-2013, 06:30 AM | #43 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
One time I put all the fuel mileage improvements I could on my A. Special distributor gave 25% better mileage, special carb gave 60% better mileage, special plug wires gave 30% better mileage. Imagine my surprise when the fuel tank overflowed!
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05-23-2013, 09:28 AM | #44 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Now if someone had these I could say that it is acting like a heat sink and removing heat from the line.
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05-24-2013, 12:45 AM | #45 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Mike V., I don't think so. To remove heat from a fuel line, the surrounding air has to cooler than the fuel in the line, BUT that is not the case! We have cool fuel entering the engine compartment from the fuel tank at maybe 80-90 degrees on a warm day. Meanwhile underhood temperatures may reach 200 degrees. This is what heats the fuel. Aluminum clothes pins will only conduct heat into the fuel line faster!
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05-24-2013, 01:49 AM | #46 | |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
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Quote:
If the air was stagnant then the case could be made but the air is moving through engine compartment, more surface area by way of the aluminum in the air moving by could be argued that it may be of help reducing the heat on the line (but most likely not), but it sure makes better sense than wood.
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05-24-2013, 11:19 AM | #47 | ||||
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now, if the fuel line were wet, so there could be evaporative cooling, it would be different. Steve |
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05-24-2013, 03:50 PM | #48 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
I have a custmer with 28 roadster that has had a problem for past few years, (a female) Carb & electrics fully rebuilt , The problem is she starts up, heads down the hiway & after about 7 miles the vehicle drops onto 2-3 cly,s, by stopping turning the engine off for a short time ,then fires up ,runs on 4 with no problem , I suggested the two wooden clothes pegs on the fuel line, Well this morning she turns up from a 50 mile trip sining my praises, for the 1st time it never did it , ??? On inspection it has a short steel pipe from the sediment bowl to a rubber hose , then another filter onto rubber hose & back to steel line as it enters the carb, I beleive the problem is the fuel line & it gets a vapour lock, the line as it enters the carb has a tight bend which brings it closer to the heat source, She is about to head off on a long tour so gave her an original fuel line & instructed her to take the micky mouse line she has on it off, BUT keep the clothes pegs on ,?Why well if they don,t work she can always use them to hold the washing out while on tour. Besides two must be better than one ? I expect a report after the tour as to the vapour lock problem , Thats my 2 pegs worth,
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05-24-2013, 11:36 PM | #49 | |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Quote:
I don't beleive anything hanging off the fuel line will help cool the fuel in that line.
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05-25-2013, 12:00 AM | #50 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
I agree. Been following this just havnt posted. Ive heard a lot of old timers remedies but I think most are just BS.
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05-25-2013, 02:01 PM | #51 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Although I've never had a vapor lock problem on my A, I did experience terrible problems with it on my '51 Buick Roadmaster. It has a huge straight 8, and a very poorly designed path for the fuel line which crosses the front of the engine just south of the radiator.
My son and I drove it from Oklahoma to Alaska many summers ago. It was incredibly hot that summer - small wildfires alongside some of the interstates. We kept getting vapor lock, until an 'crusty old' local mechanic we met along the way told me about the clothespin trick. Honestly, at first I thought the guy was kidding. Or just plain nuts. But after getting stuck again for hours in the middle of nowhere, I found the closest store I could and bought a bag of wooden clothespins. They sure looked ridiculous on the fuel line, but by God they worked! Got us all the way home without another vapor lock episode. It doesn't get that warm up here in Alaska, but I still carry them in the Buick's trunk,along with my tools and parts. |
05-25-2013, 03:43 PM | #52 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
Did I mention that all the ladies ask about my clothes pins. I tell 'em we gotsta hang our clothes someplace...
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05-25-2013, 04:14 PM | #53 |
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Re: Clothes Pins On Fuel Line
No,no. I have a set of brand new special clothes pins just perfect for your fuel line. Just send me$50 and $20 for shipping (insurance is extra). At absolutely no extra charge, I will even have my five yr old granddaughter print Ford rather neatly on them. She's a pretty good printer.
For that price, I will send you as many sets as you'd like. |
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