Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

[flatheadmurre]

I run both Tubmans Cap and his tachbox and they work great.
Most people don´t realize the time and money involved in developing and testing a new product...all my respect to Tubman for taking on projects like this to give the rest of us a quality product with support and a person we know that stands behind it.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by G.M.

Thank you keith, I designed the coils and water pumps for Skip and
we have more experience with coils, condensers and water pumps
then all the people combined who post on this site. We have 3
Ford~Heyer strobe machines that all Ford dealers used to test a lot
of the equipment on the old Fords. The condenser test part tests parts
like I described. The hot condenser, ohm meter test is reliable. People
send condensers with their coils for Skip to test, he does the "finger"
test I described and they all work when installed. Skip has been doing
this for 20 years. Find me a customer who is not satisfied. G.M.

For anyone that graduated 5th grade English & Composition, it should be clear as mud that Tubman was not seeking a "back yard" method for testing capacitors. The above quote comes across as yet one more of George's insultingly-distasteful self-promotions to keep the "Skip and G.M." water pump and coil business out there in front of the 'peanut gallery'. DD

[JM 35 Sedan]

I'm having a difficult time understand the true purpose of this post.....

Is it supposed to be a discussion on field testing condensers, a sales pitch on a product, or a bashing contest for some members who respond here?

[petehoovie]

Nothing was said by G.M. that was offensive or insulting!

SNOWFLAKES!!!


I hope Ryan chimes in here....

[tubman]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I'm having a difficult time understand the true purpose of this post.....

Is it supposed to be a discussion on field testing condensers, a sales pitch on a product, or a bashing contest for some members who respond here?

What are you having a problem with? Please go back and read my original post, this time try to comprehend it. I will reiterate : I am looking for someone to do real world testing on a new version of an already successful product I am manufacturing. I have the prototype in hand, and am looking for a person that uses his or her vehicle in a particular way. That's all. I believe I have found that person and we will proceed with our real world testing. There seems to be a faction on here who believes early Ford ignition systems are their sole territory on which no one else is allowed to trespass. They, however, are not doing anything about condensers except to recommend certain brands and maybe do some unreliable back yard tests that cannot be depended on in the real world. I believe I am filling a void that needs to be filled. As I said earlier, this seems to be more of a "turf war" on their part than an attempt to benefit our mutual hobby. It shouldn't be that way.

To "petehoovie" : I will single you out and tell you that your post is way out of line, off topic, and only serves to inflame others. I am for open discourse, so I'm not putting anyone on an "Ignore" list. You, however, can feel free to add me to yours.

I will now proceed to my real world test, and will probably not revisit this thread until I have some real world results to announce. I suggest everyone else move on as well.

[Fordors]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Well said, tubman!

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by tubman

What are you having a problem with? Please go back and read my original post, this time try to comprehend it. I will reiterate : I am looking for someone to do real world testing on a new version of an already successful product I am manufacturing. I have the prototype in hand, and am looking for a person that uses his or her vehicle in a particular way. That's all. I believe I have found that person and we will proceed with our real world testing. There seems to be a faction on here who believes early Ford ignition systems are their sole territory on which no one else is allowed to trespass. They, however, are not doing anything about condensers except to recommend certain brands and maybe do some unreliable back yard tests that cannot be depended on in the real world. I believe I am filling a void that needs to be filled. As I said earlier, this seems to be more of a "turf war" on their part than an attempt to benefit our mutual hobby. It shouldn't be that way.

To "petehoovie" : I will single you out and tell you that your post is way out of line, off topic, and only serves to inflame others. I am for open discourse, so I'm not putting anyone on an "Ignore" list. You, however, can feel free to add me to yours.

I will now proceed to my real world test, and will probably not revisit this thread until I have some real world results to announce. I suggest everyone else move on as well.

Just a little useful information if your starting a new product and need test results. One condenser sent to one person for a reliability test is not a very good way to test a product. You need to get a larger amount out to different people. In the case of testing electronic parts subject to heat problems you want to send them to the hottest places in the country. One way would be to sell them with a money back guarantee if they fail within 2 years you will refund their money. G.M.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by G.M.

Just a little useful information if your starting a new product and need test results. One condenser sent to one person for a reliability test is not a very good way to test a product. You need to get a larger amount out to different people. In the case of testing electronic parts subject to heat problems you want to send them to the hottest places in the country. One way would be to sell them with a money back guarantee if they fail within 2 years you will refund their money. G.M.

That's good advise, G.M....Makes a lot of sense....

[corvette8n]

Dennis, I'd volunteer since I already own one of your .22mfd. units, but my '41 will be up on blocks for a while I address the brakes,shocks,wiring,King pins and a myriad of little things. I'll look forward to the results of the testing.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by G.M.

Just a little useful information if your starting a new product and need test results. One condenser sent to one person for a reliability test is not a very good way to test a product. You need to get a larger amount out to different people. In the case of testing electronic parts subject to heat problems you want to send them to the hottest places in the country. One way would be to sell them with a money back guarantee if they fail within 2 years you will refund their money. G.M.

Originally Posted by petehoovie

That's good advise, G.M....Makes a lot of sense....

Well, here's the part of that that DOES NOT make any sense. G.M. suggests SELLING the pieces with a MONEY-BACK guarantee. If the capacitors don't fail, Denny will never know about it, nor will he be able to research and test the 'un-failed' capacitor(s). Secondly, who really wants to PAY FOR (as in G.M.'s suggestion) a not-inexpensive electrical component that is admittedly unproven and still under development? Denny's (Tubman) deal is way mo-better right off the bat, as he's gonna GIVE (as in FREE) a capacitor to the guinea pig guy(s) for the purpose of hopefully gaining 'real world' test info. I'm having a hard time understanding where the confusion is in Tubman's very first post at the top of this thread. DD

[Flathead Fever]

Most people are going to read this post and not have a clue about condenser differences, including me. I found this really interesting. I've replaced literally thousands of points and condensers at my job over thirty-years, as most mechanics did back in the "points" era. Probably a couple sets every day while doing routine maintenance. But I never knew that different condenser values effected the quality of the spark and the life of the points.

The old-timer mechanics (WWII era mechanics) did not like replacing the condensers. One of them told me you are more likely to install a "bad" new condenser than replace a bad one. I just thought he was being lazy. Damned if did not happen to me right after he told me. We had received a whole batch of bad Motorcraft condensers. I tried getting them from different sources and they were all bad no matter what store they cam from. I finally had to order in some Standard condensers.

This is the basics we were all taught back then as mechanics. We were not taught the entire process that's occurring that an Electrical Engineer would need to know to design an ignition system like Tubman is doing. The basics we were taught was when the points open you want the current flow to stop "instantly" to collapse the fields in the coil. The condenser is connected in parallel to the points. When the points begin to open there is a small air gap being created. The voltage will build up and jump the gap before it can stop. Its like running towards a cliff and not being able to stop instantly. With a condenser connected to the points its easier for the current to flow into the condenser than it is for it jump the point gap. Its always going to go to wherever the least resistance is. This all happens almost instantly at the "speed of light", in millionths of a second. If the current were to jump the gap it would take metal from one side of the points to the other, like a welder spark transfers metal, and you end up with "burned points"


I've been reading up on condensers since reading this post. I had no idea the coil and condenser were "tuned" together to produce the ideal spark and maximum point life. Its way more complicated than I realized.

I "borrowed the info below from another site. It explains why Tubman needs test vehicles. They are going to need to be driven thousands of miles to see if his 30 microfarad condensers are "tuned" to the original helmet distributers coil. This 30 microfarad condenser could produce a better spark and increase point life. It might be a better choice than what was available in the 1930s. There is no way to know until its been on the road for awhile.

The condenser is rated as a function of microfarads. Most breaker point ignition systems employed a condenser of .20 to .32 microfads.

When breaker points are found with deep pits and craters, the condition is usually repaired by replacing the condenser. When a crater is developing in the ground point, this being the positive point, a condenser of lesser capacity is required. Should a crater be in the moving member of the breaker points, a condenser with more capacity is usually called for to improve contact life and ignition performance.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Flathead Fever

Most people are going to read this post and not have a clue about condenser differences, including me. I found this really interesting. I've replaced literally thousands of points and condensers at my job over thirty-years, as most mechanics did back in the "points" era. Probably a couple sets every day while doing routine maintenance. But I never knew that different condenser values effected the quality of the spark and the life of the points.

The old-timer mechanics (WWII era mechanics) did not like replacing the condensers. One of them told me you are more likely to install a "bad" new condenser than replace a bad one. I just thought he was being lazy. Damned if did not happen to me right after he told me. We had received a whole batch of bad Motorcraft condensers. I tried getting them from different sources and they were all bad no matter what store they cam from. I finally had to order in some Standard condensers.

This is the basics we were all taught back then as mechanics. We were not taught the entire process that's occurring that an Electrical Engineer would need to know to design an ignition system like Tubman is doing. The basics we were taught was when the points open you want the current flow to stop "instantly" to collapse the fields in the coil. The condenser is connected in parallel to the points. When the points begin to open there is a small air gap being created. The voltage will build up and jump the gap before it can stop. Its like running towards a cliff and not being able to stop instantly. With a condenser connected to the points its easier for the current to flow into the condenser than it is for it jump the point gap. Its always going to go to wherever the least resistance is. This all happens almost instantly at the "speed of light", in millionths of a second. If the current were to jump the gap it would take metal from one side of the points to the other, like a welder spark transfers metal, and you end up with "burned points"


I've been reading up on condensers since reading this post. I had no idea the coil and condenser were "tuned" together to produce the ideal spark and maximum point life. Its way more complicated than I realized.

I "borrowed the info below from another site. It explains why Tubman needs test vehicles. They are going to need to be driven thousands of miles to see if his 30 microfarad condensers are "tuned" to the original helmet distributers coil. This 30 microfarad condenser could produce a better spark and increase point life. It might be a better choice than what was available in the 1930s. There is no way to know until its been on the road for awhile.

The condenser is rated as a function of microfarads. Most breaker point ignition systems employed a condenser of .20 to .32 microfads.

When breaker points are found with deep pits and craters, the condition is usually repaired by replacing the condenser. When a crater is developing in the ground point, this being the positive point, a condenser of lesser capacity is required. Should a crater be in the moving member of the breaker points, a condenser with more capacity is usually called for to improve contact life and ignition performance.

Very clear explanation. Thanks!

[19Fordy]

Holey Moley! What's wrong with Tubman trying to develop a better mousetrap?

Good for Tubman. When you're broke down on the side of the road and you install one of his condensers (AND it works) there will be no complaints.