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Old 03-31-2019, 04:35 PM   #1
19Fordy
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Default Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

I would like to reinstall my 8BA oil filter on my engine that now has 59AB style heads that i still want to use. These heads do not have the 3 bolt holes originally provided for the oil filter.

I can make an adapter plate (shown in cardboard template) that will fasten to the 3 current head bolts IF I weld smaller bolts needed for the oil canister to the top of the head bolts. the head bolts are Grade 8 7/16-14. The bolts being welded to the head bolts are grade 5, 3/8-16.

1st photo shows current grade 8 head bolts installed. 2nd photo shows desired outcome after welding and finishing. 3rd photo shows close up. 4th photo shows card board template for adapter The lower portion will be attached to the 3 head bolts. The canister will be bolted to the top portion of the template. Last photo shows the early style 50 merc oil canister in relative position.

QUESTION: If I MIG weld the smaller bolts to the grade 8 head bolts will it degrade the hardness of the head bolts whereby they will no longer withstand the 50 FT LB
torques required when securing the head bolts? I don't want them to snap.

I can't find any head bolts threaded at both ends. Wonder if they are available. What are they called? Last sketch would be ideal, if available. Thank you.
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Last edited by 19Fordy; 03-31-2019 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:39 PM   #2
JSeery
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

50 ft-lbs is not very much torque for a nut/bolt of that size. It is the desired clamping force for head gasket seal, but not the maximum force the nut/bolt can take. A 7/16-14 bolt has a recommended torque rating of ~70 ft-lbs. Another approach might be to install studs in the three positions and use two nuts with the mount between them.

Last edited by JSeery; 03-31-2019 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:52 PM   #3
19Fordy
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Thanks Mr. Seery: That's a good idea too Never thought of that.
Where could I get some studs that are long enough? If they are too long
I could always cut them shorter.
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Thanks Mr. Seery: That's a good idea too Never thought of that.
Where could I get some studs that are long enough? If they are too long
I could always cut them shorter.
There are several sources, ARP is one. I would check with some of the NOS guys and see if they sell individual studs. Might also check with VanPelts and the bolt guy.

Just checked and VanPelt sells individual bolts for $2.50 ea, but I'm not sure of the length you need. Measuring an 8ba head bolt should give you an idea.

Last edited by JSeery; 03-31-2019 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

It might degrade the grade 8 but I don't think it would matter. They should still hold 50 lbs of torque. Just let them cool naturally. TIG welding would put less heat into the bolt. You don't need to weld entirely around the bolt, maybe just on each side. that should be strong enough for your adapter. You could wrap the threads in a wet rag too.

What your looking for is called a " hex collar stud". Its a bolt with a threaded stud coming off the head. They exist but it might be hard finding one the right length.

This is the AMK catalog. They have really neat factory type hardware for automotive restorations and they have some collar studs.

Complete catalog

https://amkproducts.com/

This is the section with the collar studs.

https://amkproducts.com/wp-content/u...LK_120-127.pdf


Could you replace the bolt with a longer stud, grade 8 thick washer and a nut like on a 59A engine but have stud stick up past the nut far enough to slip your adapter over it and get a nut on it?

Summit Racing has 7/16" studs in different lengths.

https://www.summitracing.com/search?...iAAEgITcPD_BwE

Last edited by Flathead Fever; 03-31-2019 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Can't give a definitive answer, but my gut feeling is that welding a smaller bolt to the head of an otherwise perfectly good head bolt would be an ok thing to do.

Taking them out one at a time would also (probably) be ok. I don't think I would take all three out at the same time, though.

You will also have to partially drain the coolant to a level below the lowest bolt thread in the head face.

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Old 03-31-2019, 05:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Thank you all for the input and ideas. Mart, I was going to remove all 3 at once. Glad you told me not to. What type of thread sealant is best for head bolts these days? These heads were installed in 1999 and never removed since.
Thanks again. Jim
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Old 03-31-2019, 06:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

I don't know how long a head bolt you need, but there might be another way of doing the job. You could use long 7/16"-14, Allen head set screws as the head bolt and 7/16"-14, rod couplings as the nuts. This way when everything is tightened down you have 3, female, 7/16" nuts that you can mount the filter to. The problem I see is that the longest 7/16" set screw that McMaster-Carr has is 2 and 3/4" long. The part no. for the set screw is 91375A676 and the coupling nut is 90264A475.
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Old 03-31-2019, 07:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Wow! Guys. Thanks do much for thinking outside tje box and helping me. JIM
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Old 03-31-2019, 07:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

You could weld coupling nuts to the boltheads.
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Old 03-31-2019, 07:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

This doesn't solve the problem but you could consider mounting the cannister on the firewall or the fender inside panel.
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

95 mm is I think the measurement of the studs that replace the lower ones when fitting modified heads .
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

How about late 302 Ford main bolts. There is one main bolt that is used to hold the oil pick-up tube and it may be 7/16. It looks like your drawing.
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Old 04-01-2019, 12:01 AM   #14
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by estout81 View Post
How about late 302 Ford main bolts. There is one main bolt that is used to hold the oil pick-up tube and it may be 7/16. It looks like your drawing.
estout, you beat me to it! These bolts are found in 289's and 302's with a rear sump pan. Crown Vics and Grand Marqui's from '79, Broncos and F150's, I believe.
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:56 AM   #15
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Try and find these Fenton Stud Extensions letter E in first photo.
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Old 04-01-2019, 07:03 AM   #16
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

I use the nuts from old kingpin locking bolts. Cut the solid end off and use the nut on your studs and use short fine thread 7/16" bolts to hold the filter housing on.
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Old 04-01-2019, 10:16 AM   #17
19Fordy
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Once again, THANK YOU all very much for the help and info. you provided. I did not know what these type bolts were called and didn't know where to get them. I really am grateful that you all pitched in with great replies. I will post results of what solution I use. Taking it slow as I want no slip ups. Jim

I thought about firewall mounting but I just can't bring myself to drill a hole in my stock firewall.
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Old 04-01-2019, 10:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Maybe a longer bolt or stud and a spacer.


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Old 04-01-2019, 11:12 AM   #19
19Fordy
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Just found out the Ford main cap oil pick up tube bolt is 1/2-13 thread.
Part # D6TZ-6345-A
Flathead head bolt threads are 7/16-14.
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:48 AM   #20
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Default Re: Welding on head Bolts. Advice Needed

Here you go, Fastenal has everything including a 7/16x14 thread stud, 4" long for about $4.30 wholesale.
https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/3163372
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