Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser

[GOSFAST]

Just received a pair of new Navarro castings for a member's build up here (Joe V.)

Gave us a chance to evaluate the Navarro's over the others. We've generally preferred either the Edelbrocks or the Offy's for our own builds here, this is based on all our past experiences.

Not even sure where to really begin but here's where we're at presently. Joe has also been apprised of our findings so far!

Initially when we unpacked the heads we noticed some small "dings" on some of the surfaces from shipping, one specifically where the "fire-ring" on the head gasket would be resting!

The castings themselves are "decent", minimal porosity, nothing substantial or noticeable. From this point on it's mostly downhill though??

The machining is downright horrible, especially considering it's ALL CNC'd, including the chambers. First item we found is the "finish" on the registers for the head bolt/stud washers. Each head also has varying measurements for the heights from the head surface to the register tops. Entirely unacceptible here, but is easily repairable. The only "good" machined surfaces are the thermostat hsg areas!

The bottom surfaces on both heads needs to be addressed. One was machined with a "blade" the other appears to have been done on a belt-sander?

Next are the camber volumes, they are advertised as 75/76 cc's (they are referred to as "blower-heads") when they're actually closer to 81. This is a fairly easy fix simply by milling! The valve pocket sections are machined deep enough to make .500" lift at the valve, way too much, they should have left more material (about .100") making the chambers thicker/stronger?

The photo's below show some of what I posted here. They show many of the "dimensions" we don't feel too comfortable about! One specifically in the valve chamber area where it is only about .250" thick, the Offy's are over .650" in the same section.

There are 5 or so water holes in each head not lining up correctly with their respective holes in the head gaskets. These will have to be modified.

Many of these "issues" we will address here, however, some we have no control over and will end up being used "as-is" if Joe decides to use them at all.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. All-in-all we would not choose these heads for any builds here where we were calling the shots, if a customer still chooses to go with them he will have been forewarned of our take on them! We'll stay with either the Offy's or the Edelbrock's for now! (Heard S.) If you're reading along here no word as of last week on the Edelbrocks yet?? Thank God you didn't choose these Navarros? In the bottom photo here we machined the bolt registers towards the bottom of the photo, all 6 (5 short and the 1 long) of the top ones pictured were as we rec'd them.

[oldskool]

thanks for the info, im running offys on mine no problem

[Ol' Ron]

I wonder who's making them now??

[19Fordy]

THANK YOU GOSFAST for doing that homework. Maybe they are hoping to sell their heads to folks who really just open the box and bolt them on expecting that they are
up to specs. and very high quality. Pretty sad considering the cost of heads these days.

[Charlie ny]

Yikes......Barney is NOT happy
Charlie ny

[mfirth]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Like oldschool, Offys on my 8ba are GR8. Only 2 years on them, so far so good.

[rotorwrench]

Barney cast both finished and unfinished heads so that they could be modified per customer request. After Barney's passing, his product is no longer under his guidance, He will truely be missed in the flathead community.

[Ziggster]

Makes you wonder what is going through the heads of whoever is making them and selling them. What happened to pride in one's work?

[Russ/40]

VERY disappointed with the findings. Did you depend on a single head gasket choice or were others used to confirm your findings?

[tubman]

Before I joined the "Barn", I was one of those that had confidence in the head manufacturers and thought you could just "bolt 'em on and go". I have learned a lot since then and carefully check just about everything before using a set. This applies equally to new heads as well as used. Both sets of Edmunds I bought used had to be milled to bring them down to .045-.050" squish. All four heads required a different amount to be removed and a couple of hours work with a die grinder afterwards. Special thanks to "Ol' Ron" for putting me on to this.

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by GOSFAST

Just received a pair of new Navarro castings for a member's build up here (Joe V.)

Gave us a chance to evaluate the Navarro's over the others. We've generally preferred either the Edelbrocks or the Offy's for our own builds here, this is based on all our past experiences.

Not even sure where to really begin but here's where we're at presently. Joe has also been apprised of our findings so far!

Initially when we unpacked the heads we noticed some small "dings" on some of the surfaces from shipping, one specifically where the "fire-ring" on the head gasket would be resting!

The castings themselves are "decent", minimal porosity, nothing substantial or noticeable. From this point on it's mostly downhill though??

The machining is downright horrible, especially considering it's ALL CNC'd, including the chambers. First item we found is the "finish" on the registers for the head bolt/stud washers. Each head also has varying measurements for the heights from the head surface to the register tops. Entirely unacceptible here, but is easily repairable. The only "good" machined surfaces are the thermostat hsg areas!

The bottom surfaces on both heads needs to be addressed. One was machined with a "blade" the other appears to have been done on a belt-sander?

Next are the camber volumes, they are advertised as 75/76 cc's (they are referred to as "blower-heads") when they're actually closer to 81. This is a fairly easy fix simply by milling! The valve pocket sections are machined deep enough to make .500" lift at the valve, way too much, they should have left more material (about .100") making the chambers thicker/stronger?

The photo's below show some of what I posted here. They show many of the "dimensions" we don't feel too comfortable about! One specifically in the valve chamber area where it is only about .250" thick, the Offy's are over .650" in the same section.

There are 5 or so water holes in each head not lining up correctly with their respective holes in the head gaskets. These will have to be modified.

Many of these "issues" we will address here, however, some we have no control over and will end up being used "as-is" if Joe decides to use them at all.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. All-in-all we would not choose these heads for any builds here where we were calling the shots, if a customer still chooses to go with them he will have been forewarned of our take on them!We'll stay with either the Offy's or the Edelbrock's for now! (Heard S.) If you're reading along here no word as of last week on the Edelbrocks yet?? Thank God you didn't choose these Navarros? In the bottom photo here we machined the bolt registers towards the bottom of the photo, all 6 (5 short and the 1 long) of the top ones pictured were as we rec'd them.

I contacted the people I purchased them from (whom I'd rather not say) this morning. He told me they were mis-packaged and that one was a blower head and the other was standard. He also told me he would call Gary tomorrow to discuss his findings. I'm sure that has nothing to do with the misaligned holes, etc. I laid out a lot of money for these heads expecting the best. I definitely DO NOT want them on the blower motor that Gary's building for me! I will take Gary's word about the Offy's or Edelbrocks and let him do his thing. Thank you Gary for digging in and checking things out, it's much appreciated and will save me hours spent on the side of the road!!

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

VERY disappointed with the findings. Did you depend on a single head gasket choice or were others used to confirm your findings?

Hi Russ, I put shot below of the same gasket on the Offy casting, no problem whatsoever!

Just to add and be fair, the water hole misalignment is of little consequence to us using the heads, as I stated above, the 1/4" nominal "thickness" in the valve pocket area is a major concern!

I say this because over the years I have had 2 Edelbrock's (different builds) experience cracks in the chambers and these are much thicker in this area! It's kind of ironic because one happened to be on a "blown" Flattie also, had a Magnuson-144 (B&M) blower on it!

(Add) The quality (or lack of it) was first apparent when I saw how they wrapped/shipped these heads, we would never even consider shipping used old heads like they did these new ones!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Haven't spoke with Joe since he spoke with the vendor but I'm not buying into their explanation to him, sounds like pure BS to me! First off they don't even list an 80 cc head??

[19Fordy]

It would be interesting to see how those heads are machined after casting.
Quality control seems lacking.

[JWL]

When I was testing heads for my book a friend, with ties to the new Navarro owners, had a set shipped to me. They were as near perfect as any could be. Only one problem---they were both for the same bank of an 8BA. So, I eventually got 2 heads for the other side and, again, both sets are perfect. The only objectionable area was in the dome not matching either a stock Ford piston contour nor the racing pistons I was using.

I am now wondering if the heads I received were from the original machine shop?

[Tim Ayers]

John:

It's possible. Do you recall what time frame that was? I got my set directly from Barney in the early '00's. He was still in business, I think, until sometime around 2008's?? I don't know exactly when the present owner's took over.

[old Tom]

In 1961 I bought a set a Sharp heads from Al,s speed shop in Aurora Il. I Never used them yet I Hope they are OK now after reading this. They are for the 59A motor.

[fortyfords]

I really appreciate hearing this information as I thought the Navarro heads would be a nice addition. Thanks for your time on this.

[woodiejon]

I have a set of those heads that the casting for hoses were so bad that we had to machine them so when you clamp the hoses they would not slide off.

[quickchange34]

H and H Flathead is selling them now. I got a set for a AB build for a customer. I had to machine the water outlets to keep the hoses on. As casted the hoses would have come off. Had to spot face the seats for the head nuts . The chambers were close but the machining was not great.

[russcc]

Thank goodness I got the "Nostalgia" heads for the 59L block from Barney and Donna on a visit to his shop several years before he passed away. The entire process from casting to machining is impeccable, and that's with a former machinist's eye for perfection.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by russcc

Thank goodness I got the "Nostalgia" heads for the 59L block from Barney and Donna on a visit to his shop several years before he passed away. The entire process from casting to machining is impeccable, and that's with a former machinist's eye for perfection.

Funny story. So when I ordered mine from Barney, he gave me a price shipped to NJ. If I recall correctly, the cost was $675 shipped. I still have the receipt and water slide decal Barney sent in the box. This was sometime in the early '00's.

About a week later, Barney calls me and says I owe $4.75 in additional shipping and if I would kindly mail the difference to him. I gladly did, but thought that was an interesting phone call. RIP Mr. Navarro.

[19Fordy]

Tim. You did the honorable thing.

[Pete]

“It would be interesting to see how those heads are machined after casting.
Quality control seems lacking.”

I can tell exactly how they were machined by looking at the tool marks and that is not the right way to do it. Fastest, maybe, but not right. With just minimally more time, a mirror finish could be achieved.
Misplaced holes, poorly aligned water outlets and spotface angles off are usually machine setup faults, not engineering faults.

Many products these days are done the fastest way that will “get by”.
A sad thing about these many products is the marketing department.
They have people giving out information about things they don’t have a clue how they work in real life applications. They have never seen or done it themselves. The company may be owned by the nicest guy you ever met that holds world records and gives all kinds of money to medical research and the homeless, but has a very poor employee training program.
I don’t know what the answer is but I don’t like dealing with it every day.

[burly]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

THANK YOU GOSFAST for doing that homework. Maybe they are hoping to sell their heads to folks who really just open the box and bolt them on expecting that they are
up to specs. and very high quality. Pretty sad considering the cost of heads these days.

And considering of those 3 brands the Navarro are the most expensive.

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

I wonder who's making them now??

Just another shoddy product from H&H. Hatchet & Hammer.

[Bored&Stroked]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

That is a shame - Barney would NOT like to hear about this. I bought a few sets of his heads from him, along with blower manifolds, etc (back in the early 2000's). Barney always did extremely high quality work. The only chambers I've seen on his heads were cast - and at the right depth to run a .425 lift cam with .050 head gaskets. I always loved the work that Barney did - guess I'm fortunate to have "original stuff" . . . and I'll stay away from the "new" ones that H&H is making. The dumb part is if they had the correct CNC programs, machine fixturing/setup and operators - they should be dead-nuts correct (that is what CNC does). But any machine/program process - is only as good as the setup and operator. Sure seems to be lacking in both departments!

Here are the chambers on the heads I have on my 284 cube motor in the 32 Cab:

2015-07-17 18.15.37 copy.jpg

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by old Tom

In 1961 I bought a set a Sharp heads from Al,s speed shop in Aurora Il. I Never used them yet I Hope they are OK now after reading this. They are for the 59A motor.

I spent a day with Al Sharp in his garage. That guy was a master pattern maker. Really nice guy. I run his heads just because of what a decent guy he was. Sharp speed equipment set a lot of records. I think it probably some of the best parts made.

I do not like the look of the new castings, like the Edelbrock block letter heads, they look terrible. The texture of the sand they use does not leave a finish like the originals. The way they mill off the tops of the lettering turns me off. You can spot that they are repros from a long way off. The metallurgy and casting techniques have improved but I d rather have heads or an intake that Navarro, Evans, Edelbrock or Sharp once had their hands on. Its all about the history for me. I use to want to know which equipment was the best. Then I met Al Sharp and I wanted Sharp heads. Then I met Johnny Ryan of the SCTA Gophers club and I wanted Evans heads because he had worked Earl Evans casting heads. Then I became friends with Jack Calori that set the 1947 SCTA Class "C" Roadster Record. He ran a Clay Smith 272 cam. Then I wanted a Clay Smith cam, I just had two 272 cams ground by them. Certain parts when I see them remind me of these different guys. I know longer care about which intakes flow the best. Its which ones remind me of the old hot rodders I knew. I spent a couple day's with Kong Jackson. After that I had to have a Kong distributor. My ultimate flathead would be a combination of the parts associated with all these guys. A piece of them is riding along with you. I miss those guys. That really was the greatest generation.

[Pete]

Too bad no one will sell you heads without the dome machined in them.
It would cut production costs for them.
Sure would save a lot of work for us.

[Ol' Ron]

Due to the fact that the stock 8ba and EAB heads have a very good combustion chamber shape, I'm considering having the chamber filled with 10/15 cc's of brass to increase the compression. Done right, no machining is necessary. Except for setting piston to head clearance and valve clearance. I know a shop that can do it, and will check the cost. Might be cheaper than the Aluminum stuff available today. I'll get better flow and higher CR and no corrosion. For those of you who didn't race back in the 50's this was a common practice.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Due to the fact that the stock 8ba and EAB heads have a very good combustion chamber shape, I'm considering having the chamber filled with 10/15 cc's of brass to increase the compression. Done right, no machining is necessary. Except for setting piston to head clearance and valve clearance. I know a shop that can do it, and will check the cost. Might be cheaper than the Aluminum stuff available today. I'll get better flow and higher CR and no corrosion. For those of you who didn't race back in the 50's this was a common practice.

I have a question Ron: Where do you put the brass so it does not interfere with the flow? Thanks!

[GOSFAST]

I would just like to add this, don't give up on these heads just yet.

My customer (Joe) will be speaking with H&H when these heads arrive back there. He may come back with some interesting info, I hope!

If these heads could just bypass the CNC'ing program I think they may be acceptible to use. This should affect the pricing on a positive note also, no "excess" machining would be needed, only the basic! I would like to know the "as-cast" chamber volumes, we have the ability to alter this number some, we'll see where this all goes? About 70 "as-cast" cc's would be a nice target number, we can mill them smaller or rework the chambers for a bit more, with 70 as the target we could vary the same casting from 64 (nominal) to 76 (nominal).

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I have to admit H&H is probably the very first vendor I got absolutely no "static" over the specific reasons for the heads to be returned and they DID listen closely. Mike seems to be very interested in some sort of compromise, again, we'll see where all this goes. Other than the excess machining the heads appear to "fit-the-bill"! I'll bring this post back when I can add more (maybe better) info.

[Tim Ayers]

I don’t know Mike personally, but the few times I did speak to him, we had good conversations. I’m hoping this all works out for the best. We need all the flathead folks we can get.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Due to the fact that the stock 8ba and EAB heads have a very good combustion chamber shape, I'm considering having the chamber filled with 10/15 cc's of brass to increase the compression. Done right, no machining is necessary. Except for setting piston to head clearance and valve clearance. I know a shop that can do it, and will check the cost. Might be cheaper than the Aluminum stuff available today. I'll get better flow and higher CR and no corrosion. For those of you who didn't race back in the 50's this was a common practice.

If you are going to do that, try filling the dome and using flat top pistons.
You can get enough compression to run alcohol then.

[Ol' Ron]

Pete
My options are limited to a 258 ci displacement. So CR is hard to get. Having flow tested most stock and aftermarket heads. The EAB is probably the best. Thats why they give almost 8;1 on a 276 and with the small piston clearance make for great throttle response. I'd like to have 8.5/9 on the 258 engine and the net valve lift with the D 410 cam is 390. If the new port works, I'll need the better flow of the stock heads. Now, where do you put the brass?? 10cc of brass is about a 5/8 cube in area. If he still has the fixture to hold the heads I can melt it in the transfer area at an angle towards the exhaustside. The fixture was a double gas burner from the dark ages. it held the head about 2" abouve the burners while the head was clamped to it. He heated the head up to some temp that he tested with a stick of something. Then used his acc touch to ment in the brass.. Once it was done he through an abstouse blanket over it. I might skip that part. Gota give JWL some credit here.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Pete
My options are limited to a 258 ci displacement. So CR is hard to get. Having flow tested most stock and aftermarket heads. The EAB is probably the best. Thats why they give almost 8;1 on a 276 and with the small piston clearance make for great throttle response. I'd like to have 8.5/9 on the 258 engine and the net valve lift with the D 410 cam is 390. If the new port works, I'll need the better flow of the stock heads. Now, where do you put the brass?? 10cc of brass is about a 5/8 cube in area. If he still has the fixture to hold the heads I can melt it in the transfer area at an angle towards the exhaustside. The fixture was a double gas burner from the dark ages. it held the head about 2" abouve the burners while the head was clamped to it. He heated the head up to some temp that he tested with a stick of something. Then used his acc touch to ment in the brass.. Once it was done he through an abstouse blanket over it. I might skip that part. Gota give JWL some credit here.

I have never done an engine that small but the same principles should apply as a big one except not as great. You may have to settle for a max of 11 to 1. I can get 14 to 1 on a 321 inch engine.
First, get a set of flat top gas ported 2 ring pistons with narrow low tension rings that come to the deck. Set final piston to head clearance to .035.

Fill the dome on the heads so they will finish flat in that area.
Measure the transfer area at it's max. depth. Fill that part so it will finish about 20% less than original. If you can fill the valve area any to get your .040 clearance, do that.
You can get the job done ok with brass and it will work but if it was me, I would TIG weld it with ER70 rod with preheat, peening and slow cool.

If you put a vacuum pump on that engine and get 15 inches of Hg. you will gain about 20 hp. That will require some minor sealing mods but I can walk you through that if need be.

[Pete]

I probably should mention also that a 30 degree valve job with round corners on the seats will gain 10%. You may have a problem finding someone with the cutters for that though.
Most guys that do World of Outlaws and Nascar engines have them.

[Ol' Ron]

Now I have something to think about. however I have the pistons and crank assy. Cam and lifters. If any of this works, it will be food for others to persue. At 86, I'll be lucky to finish this one

[JWL]

If you recall I covered the installation, with pictures, and sealing issues associated with crankcase vacuum pumping, in my book. I do not recommend for long term use unless lower vacuum levels are set or there are modifications made to deal with wrist pin problems.

Picking up 20 HP is something we can all wish for but is rather optimistic. Of course I have only examined and tested the results on 4 different Flathead engines with a maximum gain of about 6 HP. It is possible to get a 15 to 20 HP improvement with wet sump overhead valve engines. Most dry sumps do not need additional vacuum pumps.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by JWL

If you recall I covered the installation, with pictures, and sealing issues associated with crankcase vacuum pumping, in my book.

> I appreciate you plugging your book on the forum. It is good for business. They won't let me do that on here.

I do not recommend for long term use unless lower vacuum levels are set or there are modifications made to deal with wrist pin problems.

> There are several more than pin problems to deal with. I assumed we were talking about a race engine because welding up heads for compression is NOT normally done on street engines.

Picking up 20 HP is something we can all wish for but is rather optimistic.

> Actually, that is a conservative number.

Of course I have only examined and tested the results on 4 different Flathead engines with a maximum gain of about 6 HP.

> 4 engines? 6 hp..Ok, I get it. You are talking very conservative street engines. Apples and pomegranates.

It is possible to get a 15 to 20 HP improvement with wet sump overhead valve engines.

> Why does the bottom end of an engine like we are talking about (V8) know what type of heads are up above??

Most dry sumps do not need additional vacuum pumps.

> Imagine the numbers we get with a dry sump system with 20 inches of Hg.

...

[JWL]

Actually I was mentioning the book info so Ron could look it up.

The lower unit? Pulling vacuum in the crankcase does little for lower end performance increases when the correct pan is used.

The reason what is bolted on above the block face matters is because of the additional 3,000+ RPM.

As a matter of fact the engine which showed a reasonably consistent 6 HP improvement was a pretty aggressive 304 with Roller Cam and fabricated tunnel ram intake. Hardly suitable for extended street mileage.

[Ol' Ron]

The only way to make Horsepower, is to get more air into the engine. That's why blowers work so good. The cylinder head is actually part of the intake port, when incomes to getting air into the cylinder. and the quest goes on!

[Pete]

Originally Posted by JWL

Actually I was mentioning the book info so Ron could look it up.

The lower unit? Pulling vacuum in the crankcase does little for lower end performance increases when the correct pan is used.

> There is more to it than that.

The reason what is bolted on above the block face matters is because of the additional 3,000+ RPM.

> The efficiency of the lower unit at any rpm would be close to the same no matter if there were no heads on the engine and it was driven by an electric motor or it was running under it's own power. The vacuum reduces pumping losses and helps the rings seal. If you had an electric motor driving it, you would lose the combustion gas helping seal the rings so there would be some loss in efficiency there.

As a matter of fact the engine which showed a reasonably consistent 6 HP improvement was a pretty aggressive 304 with Roller Cam and fabricated tunnel ram intake. Hardly suitable for extended street mileage.

> Roller cam aggressive? NO! Long life, yes.
Tunnel ram, ancient technology. Can be made to run very well on the street.
Tuned properly, that engine would probably be ok on the street.

Here is some more info along these lines.
One of my customers to whom I furnished ALL of the valve train parts and only recommended what engine parts to buy and what to do to the engine, called me yesterday and said it was running in his 34 and made 224 hp at the rear wheels.
This is a 304 with knife edged light weight small diameter Moldex crank, windage tray with scrapers and vacuum pump.
This has 3 250 CFM Strombergs on it with race gas. 404A cam. Titanium lifters and valves. This is the first engine I have been associated with for a long time that is not a dry sump. The vacuum pump thing is why I thought I would mention it. The thread was pretty well hijacked anyway.....LOL

[Ol' Ron]

My question here is?? where did the block get the air to produce this kind of power? I built the 294 short block that produced 235 HP at 4500 rpm. Mild cam and 1.6 chevy intakes and a Magnason blower and only 3.5 lbs boost. We'd like to see the power at 5k but didn't want to blow it up. These big Hp Numbers on normally aspirated fatheads, make me wonder.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

My question here is?? where did the block get the air to produce this kind of power? I built the 294 short block that produced 235 HP at 4500 rpm. Mild cam and 1.6 chevy intakes and a Magnason blower and only 3.5 lbs boost. We'd like to see the power at 5k but didn't want to blow it up. These big Hp Numbers on normally aspirated fatheads, make me wonder.

First off, your engine is NOT going to blow up at 5k or even 6K rpm.

For my engines, I have found the flow bench is pretty much a waste of time.
I found out back in the 50's that every time I went bigger on the ports I went faster. Now I just take them out to a .100 minimum wall all the way through.
The exhausts get some welding mods also. When I get done the exhaust ports are 2 inch diameter at the flange. While the valve is only 1.7 dia, Boyle's laws of gas flow say it is better to have the pipe/port get bigger in dia. as it goes out.

[Ol' Ron]

Pete
That is very impressive. I moved my exhaust ports to straighten them out. The block is on the cover of my book and also in the book. I flow them ant they only improved by 4%. Probably good in a Biville engine. But I don't think it's necessary with other mods to the port exits. I also realize tha the exhaust is important to make HP. But we still have to get the air into the block and the blower does it, where Mother nature can't I must admit that you gave me the idea for my ports. Having worked on aircraft, and a student of John Rontz air flow. THe math is far beyond my understanding. But I think the guys that designed the LS engines read his book. What I'm doing might not work, but it's a good reason to get up in the morning.

[Lawrie]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

You are right about the blower,our old hilborn injected engine in the dragster only went about 115 mph, built the new engine with a 471blower and best so far is 142 mph.
Lawrie

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Pete

I have never done an engine that small but the same principles should apply as a big one except not as great. You may have to settle for a max of 11 to 1. I can get 14 to 1 on a 321 inch engine.
First, get a set of flat top gas ported 2 ring pistons with narrow low tension rings that come to the deck. Set final piston to head clearance to .035.

Fill the dome on the heads so they will finish flat in that area.
Measure the transfer area at it's max. depth. Fill that part so it will finish about 20% less than original. If you can fill the valve area any to get your .040 clearance, do that.
You can get the job done ok with brass and it will work but if it was me, I would TIG weld it with ER70 rod with preheat, peening and slow cool.

If you put a vacuum pump on that engine and get 15 inches of Hg. you will gain about 20 hp. That will require some minor sealing mods but I can walk you through that if need be.

Just curious: It seems to me that a .035" piston to head clearance would give nearly the same compression whether flat top pistons or the original dome style. Where is all that extra compression to be found? Thanks!

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Pete
That is very impressive. I moved my exhaust ports to straighten them out. The block is on the cover of my book and also in the book. I flow them ant they only improved by 4%. Probably good in a Biville engine. But I don't think it's necessary with other mods to the port exits. I also realize tha the exhaust is important to make HP. But we still have to get the air into the block and the blower does it, where Mother nature can't I must admit that you gave me the idea for my ports. Having worked on aircraft, and a student of John Rontz air flow. THe math is far beyond my understanding. But I think the guys that designed the LS engines read his book. What I'm doing might not work, but it's a good reason to get up in the morning.

Many people are reluctant to spend a lot of time on porting a street engine when that is a very cheap way to make hp gain.
If you are building your own engine, your time is not worth much if you consider your car a hobby. Usually the nitty gritty details individually will only gain a very small percentage but a lot of these added up will make an increase worth going for.
Porting with an ultrasonic gauge takes a HUGE amount of time and patience.
The cost? 300 hours of your time, electricity for lights/fans and to run the compressor, a couple of die grinders and a handful of burrs and stones.
There is the also the nominal cost of a BIG sign hanging on your shop wall saying, " BIGGER IS BETTER".

[Pete]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Just curious: It seems to me that a .035" piston to head clearance would give nearly the same compression whether flat top pistons or the original dome style. Where is all that extra compression to be found? Thanks!

A flat plane has less area than any spherical surface the same diameter.
The flame front has a shorter distance to travel across the piston also.

The rest of it is in the transfer area.

[Ol' Ron]

Yes Pete, been there done that. Often wondered how well it worked, I had a special system for the street engines. When I was flow testing with the homemade flow bench I found out where the best place to start porting was. By spending about 10/15 min in a port I could improve flow about 10%. Not sure how much it helped, but it looked good.. Now filling the water jacket around the port with liquid steel is a bitch.

[prpmmp]

Pete and Ron keep it going!! This is entertainment at its best!! Don't understand it all but I,m enjoying the show!!!! Pete

[Ziggster]

I just watched an older vid from PowerNation TV where they did up a flathead. It was bored and stroked to 304 cu in, with 3/4 race cam, triple carbs, ported with larger Chevy valves, etc. Made a whopping 156 Hp at the crank. Torque was a little more impressive at 265 lb-ft.

https://www.powernationtv.com/episod...tty-3-deuce-v8

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ziggster

I just watched an older vid from PowerNation TV where they did up a flathead. It was bored and stroked to 304 cu in, with 3/4 race cam, triple carbs, ported with larger Chevy valves, etc. Made a whopping 156 Hp at the crank. Torque was a little more impressive at 265 lb-ft.

https://www.powernationtv.com/episod...tty-3-deuce-v8

That combination makes one of the best ECONO street engines you can have.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Pete

First off, your engine is NOT going to blow up at 5k or even 6K rpm.

For my engines, I have found the flow bench is pretty much a waste of time.
I found out back in the 50's that every time I went bigger on the ports I went faster. Now I just take them out to a .100 minimum wall all the way through.
The exhausts get some welding mods also. When I get done the exhaust ports are 2 inch diameter at the flange. While the valve is only 1.7 dia, Boyle's laws of gas flow say it is better to have the pipe/port get bigger in dia. as it goes out.

That looks awesome. Pete, what the deal with the re-routed cooling? (I'm assuming that's what that tube is going along the outside of the block).

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

That looks awesome. Pete, what the deal with the re-routed cooling? (I'm assuming that's what that tube is going along the outside of the block).

Yes, it is a water manifold to equally take water out of the bottom of the cylinders.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Pete

Yes, it is a water manifold to equally take water out of the bottom of the cylinders.

Electric pump?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Electric pump?

On the circle track engines the water pump is one section of the dry sump pump.

On the LSR engine I am on now it will be electric.

[Ol' Ron]

That was a popular water system on th 60 hp midget blocks. eliminated the fan belt, Never saw that on the big blocks tho. That another good idea Pete. Learn sumpin every day!!

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

That was a popular water system on th 60 hp midget blocks. eliminated the fan belt, Never saw that on the big blocks tho. That another good idea Pete. Learn sumpin every day!!

Yes, we did a bunch of them on the 60's. That's a Martas pump.

Here are pics of one on an 8ba. The red belt goes down to the power steering/dry sump pump.

[Ol' Ron]

Combustion chamber shape?? Might as well get this one started. Back in the 80's when I was doing all this experimenting, I made up a wooden cylinder head and carved in a bunch of chambers after measuring most stock and aftermarket chambers. I was looking for the best flow compared to CR. I do have some pics of this somewhere. The best one was a piston with a 7 degree top and the head with an 8 deg angle. This pop up piston forced the AF into the valve area. It also allow for a very hi CR with excellent flow. I made up a piston shape with Bondo and sent it to EGGE and asked them if they could make a piston for me with enough material on it for me to machine the top. The cost was 600 dollars, which was far beyond my means.
Fast forward to 2003 and I was at Bivlle with JWL and the flathead powered Hudson. I was shocked the pistons in it. Just like the ones I had sent to EGGE and the Heads were made by Navarro. Interesting, but I'm still not sure this is the right shape. But, I still think the spark plug should be in the center of the transfer area . This creats a shorted flame front and allows for a power tip plug. Be interested in any comments, food for thought.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Combustion chamber shape?? Might as well get this one started. Back in the 80's when I was doing all this experimenting, I made up a wooden cylinder head and carved in a bunch of chambers after measuring most stock and aftermarket chambers. I was looking for the best flow compared to CR. I do have some pics of this somewhere. The best one was a piston with a 7 degree top and the head with an 8 deg angle. This pop up piston forced the AF into the valve area. It also allow for a very hi CR with excellent flow. I made up a piston shape with Bondo and sent it to EGGE and asked them if they could make a piston for me with enough material on it for me to machine the top. The cost was 600 dollars, which was far beyond my means.
Fast forward to 2003 and I was at Bivlle with JWL and the flathead powered Hudson. I was shocked the pistons in it. Just like the ones I had sent to EGGE and the Heads were made by Navarro. Interesting, but I'm still not sure this is the right shape. But, I still think the spark plug should be in the center of the transfer area . This creats a shorted flame front and allows for a power tip plug. Be interested in any comments, food for thought.

This is interesting for around that same time (2003) Navarro introduced his hi flow head. It is a pop up, slightly angled piston design. At the time, the only pistons being made for this set up were from Arias @ $1,000 a set and the heads were a $100 premium over the $675 price for a "nostalgic" set.

I balked at the price for the set up. From what I understand, Ross now is also making pistons for this set up and the price is around their normal custom piston price of $700.

From what I gather, this set up is a great compromise between flow and compression.

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by Ziggster

I just watched an older vid from PowerNation TV where they did up a flathead. It was bored and stroked to 304 cu in, with 3/4 race cam, triple carbs, ported with larger Chevy valves, etc. Made a whopping 156 Hp at the crank. Torque was a little more impressive at 265 lb-ft.

https://www.powernationtv.com/episod...tty-3-deuce-v8

Funny how this post took on a life of it's own and went way off target (quality of certain heads)??

Anyway, to reply strictly to the quote above here, these numbers, 155 HP/265 TQ are indicative of what we almost always find on our basic 292" build, 3.312" x 4.250", Ross pistons/metric rings, Isky "8800", and single small 4 brl carb! Tri-power's see just a bit more!

There is NO porting, NO oversize valves, and NO hidden little "secrets", just some old-fashioned type excellent machine work! This is basically the identical build to my friend Ron's ride in my signature below here! Going above 40,000 trouble-free miles now coming up on 9 years!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Haven't heard back from Joe yet with any input from H&H, expecting to hear soon though. On an added note, knowing what we've learned through the years here about the power available from Turbo's this is what I'd be researching/testing if I were "chasing" Flathead HP. The sole issue with blowers is they consume some HP to run themselves. Not so with turbo's, have never done one though as far as I know. Sometimes after we do all the machining for some customers they walk out with their pieces and I don't hear anymore! There may have been a Turbo or two installed, just not aware.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by GOSFAST

Funny how this post took on a life of it's own and went way off target (quality of certain heads)??

Anyway, to reply strictly to the quote above here, these numbers, 155 HP/265 TQ are indicative of what we almost always find on our basic 292" build, 3.312" x 4.250", Ross pistons/metric rings, Isky "8800", and single small 4 brl carb! Tri-power's see just a bit more!

There is NO porting, NO oversize valves, and NO hidden little "secrets", just some old-fashioned type excellent machine work! This is basically the identical build to my friend Ron's ride in my signature below here! Going above 40,000 trouble-free miles now coming up on 9 years!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Haven't heard back from Joe yet with any input from H&H, expecting to hear soon though. On an added note, knowing what we've learned through the years here about the power available from Turbo's this is what I'd be researching/testing if I were "chasing" Flathead HP. The sole issue with blowers is they consume some HP to run themselves. Not so with turbo's, have never done one though as far as I know. Sometimes after we do all the machining for some customers they walk out with their pieces and I don't hear anymore! There may have been a Turbo or two installed, just not aware.

Gary:

Well, the turbo secret is out with junk yard LS motors getting 800+ or more h.p. with either one massive turbo or dual units.

I think what is holding back most guys from going the turbo route is looks on a flathead powered hot rod.

If I had a lead sled, I would serious consider it since you can hide the units in the engine bay.

Might look a little out of place on an old roadster with two spools hanging over the frame rails. LOL!

[revkev6]

Originally Posted by GOSFAST

Funny how this post took on a life of it's own and went way off target (quality of certain heads)??

Anyway, to reply strictly to the quote above here, these numbers, 155 HP/265 TQ are indicative of what we almost always find on our basic 292" build, 3.312" x 4.250", Ross pistons/metric rings, Isky "8800", and single small 4 brl carb! Tri-power's see just a bit more!

There is NO porting, NO oversize valves, and NO hidden little "secrets", just some old-fashioned type excellent machine work! This is basically the identical build to my friend Ron's ride in my signature below here! Going above 40,000 trouble-free miles now coming up on 9 years!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Haven't heard back from Joe yet with any input from H&H, expecting to hear soon though. On an added note, knowing what we've learned through the years here about the power available from Turbo's this is what I'd be researching/testing if I were "chasing" Flathead HP. The sole issue with blowers is they consume some HP to run themselves. Not so with turbo's, have never done one though as far as I know. Sometimes after we do all the machining for some customers they walk out with their pieces and I don't hear anymore! There may have been a Turbo or two installed, just not aware.

gary, my concern with turbocharging a flathead is the heat build up in the exhaust between the valve and the turbo. in a flathead all the heat is kept in the block....

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Gary:

Might look a little out of place on an old roadster with two spools hanging over the frame rails. LOL!

Hi Tim, I agree 100% about the "look", but if you're looking for all-out power Turbo is (most likely) the way to go? (In my neighborhood here we have 4-bangers making over 800, some even at the tires, google Vinny 10 racing)!)

Originally Posted by revkev6

gary, my concern with turbocharging a flathead is the heat build up in the exhaust between the valve and the turbo. in a flathead all the heat is kept in the block....

Hi kev, can't have your cake and eat it too, if you want "ultimate" HP you'll have to deal with the heat!

If I was going to look to set any legitimate records today with the Flathead ( I'm not, believe me) I would most likely run it "Turboed", injected, and possibly on E-85, if not, on race fuel for sure! Definitely would be walking in "blind" though on a build like this. I would assume it would have to be a "concreted" block, at least partially anyway!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. While I have some peoples attention here I just got a phone call from a good friend and was told to expect to see a 25% increase in ALL off-shore cranks. After he hung up I made my own call to one of the larger mfr's and confirmed his info, it IS correct. This will affect the Flathead cranks and, I suppose, all the off-shore conn rods also! If you're contemplating a stroker in the near future you may want to pick up the crank/rods now and "stash" them??

[Tim Ayers]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Hi Gary:

E-85 is the ticket with turbo charging for it has a cooling effect due to the corn alcohol.

From what I gather, running E-85 is able to be done with fooling with the ECU programming on a LS motor.

[Darrell S]

P.S. While I have some peoples attention here I just got a phone call from a good friend and was told to expect to see a 25% increase in ALL off-shore cranks. After he hung up I made my own call to one of the larger mfr's and confirmed his info, it IS correct. This will affect the Flathead cranks and, I suppose, all the off-shore conn rods also! If you're contemplating a stroker in the near future you may want to pick up the crank/rods now and "stash" them??[/QUOTE]

More than likely most everything for the old cars will see this 25% increase due to tariffs on Chinese products. Looks like it will be some time before all this is sorted out.

[revkev6]

Originally Posted by GOSFAST

Hi Tim, I agree 100% about the "look", but if you're looking for all-out power Turbo is (most likely) the way to go? (In my neighborhood here we have 4-bangers making over 800, some even at the tires, google Vinny 10 racing)!)



Hi kev, can't have your cake and eat it too, if you want "ultimate" HP you'll have to deal with the heat!

If I was going to look to set any legitimate records today with the Flathead ( I'm not, believe me) I would most likely run it "Turboed", injected, and possibly on E-85, if not, on race fuel for sure! Definitely would be walking in "blind" though on a build like this. I would assume it would have to be a "concreted" block, at least partially anyway!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. While I have some peoples attention here I just got a phone call from a good friend and was told to expect to see a 25% increase in ALL off-shore cranks. After he hung up I made my own call to one of the larger mfr's and confirmed his info, it IS correct. This will affect the Flathead cranks and, I suppose, all the off-shore conn rods also! If you're contemplating a stroker in the near future you may want to pick up the crank/rods now and "stash" them??

I've been tinkering around in my mind on supercharging without losses.... think bonneville records.... need ballast in the nose usually anyway... so lets run some batteries up there and spin the supercharger electrically. they already do it with water pumps... why not the blower too.


shit, now I just let my secret out. i was going to patent and sell it to ronnie roadster for his next record

[Pete]

"P.S. While I have some peoples attention here I just got a phone call from a good friend and was told to expect to see a 25% increase in ALL off-shore cranks. After he hung up I made my own call to one of the larger mfr's and confirmed his info, it IS correct. This will affect the Flathead cranks and, I suppose, all the off-shore conn rods also! If you're contemplating a stroker in the near future you may want to pick up the crank/rods now and "stash" them??"

That is ok if you can be satisfied with oats that have been through the horse.
Buy USA. FAR better quality.

[tubman]

A friend and I tinkered with electric powered superchargers a while ago. Although it has been done successfully (I read an article about an outfit that does it when I was "tinkering"), the bottom line is that it is extremely difficult to put together a package that provides enough power that is small and light enough to be practical.

[revkev6]

Originally Posted by tubman

A friend and I tinkered with electric powered superchargers a while ago. Although it has been done successfully (I read an article about an outfit that does it when I was "tinkering"), the bottom line is that it is extremely difficult to put together a package that provides enough power that is small and light enough to be practical.

yes, this was directed at bonneville only. weight and packaging isn't nearly as important.. well packaging can be but you can design around it. on a flathead you can use up a significant portion of your gains spinning the blower.



there is NOTHING practical about electric supercharging. although I did read the BMW was looking to do this as a way to remove lag. small electric driven turbo on low end.

[AKCJ]

All this talk about electric supercharging reminded me of the guy who put a vacuum cleaner in the back of his rig and ran the discharge hose up to his carburetor. Electric Supercharger. He had to run a small gas powered generator to power the vacuum cleaner as he didn’t have a 12 volt vacuum.
Sorry Gary about wondering off your original thread.

[Ol' Ron]

With 2900 visitors to this thread, seems like a few people are interested is the BS that makes them go fast. I try to keep the cost down so those big creaks ane nor in my budget. However. for the past 5 years I've had the pleasure to ride behing one of Gares 294 crank assys in a 38 Ford PU we put together. Edekbrock 74cc heads, L-100 cam and 3 stromburgs, from Uncle Max, make a fun ride.

[Ronnieroadster]

Electric supercharger drives now that could work but if were talking top speeds at Bonneville the battery's needed for the long pull might be a bit more weight that will cancel out the possible speed gains. Being heavy trying to accelerate the weight can be a big handicap with most valve in block designs. Now on the thoughts of turbos. The major concern on the Flathead will be the valve seat cracking caused by the excessive heat backing up trying to spool up the turbo and the inlet charge crossing the seat to the cylinder edge. Take it from me its not that simple keeping the block relief area crack free I figured out how to do it this only took me five blocks to figure it out. But now at over 190 and now 200 MPH blown on gas my Ford Flathead blocks do not crack. Try getting a block to survive in that relief area is what you need to figure out first before you go to the next step. Oh and just to let you know my blocks are not filled in any way they all still have the original Ford water jackets as well as the original intake exhaust port layout. Good luck with the ideas hope you all have plenty of blocks to experiment with your going to need them. I look forward to seeing if it can be done with reliability that being no cracks.
Ronnieroadster

[revkev6]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Electric supercharger drives now that could work but if were talking top speeds at Bonneville the battery's needed for the long pull might be a bit more weight that will cancel out the possible speed gains. Being heavy trying to accelerate the weight can be a big handicap with most valve in block designs. Now on the thoughts of turbos. The major concern on the Flathead will be the valve seat cracking caused by the excessive heat backing up trying to spool up the turbo and the inlet charge crossing the seat to the cylinder edge. Take it from me its not that simple keeping the block relief area crack free I figured out how to do it this only took me five blocks to figure it out. But now at over 190 and now 200 MPH blown on gas my Ford Flathead blocks do not crack. Try getting a block to survive in that relief area is what you need to figure out first before you go to the next step. Oh and just to let you know my blocks are not filled in any way they all still have the original Ford water jackets as well as the original intake exhaust port layout. Good luck with the ideas hope you all have plenty of blocks to experiment with your going to need them. I look forward to seeing if it can be done with reliability that being no cracks.
Ronnieroadster

Ronnie, I was thinking of robbing a motor from a Prius which gives about 60-70 hp. and batteries from a leaf or another electric car. It would take some serious engineering work but making a controller that maintains a specific level of boost when you are on the gas would be possible. Not sure what psi you run but I think the Prius motor would pull 10psi minimum. Which means you gain that power back at the crank. Nissan leaf motors are 110hp if you run more than 10psi...

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by revkev6

Ronnie, I was thinking of robbing a motor from a Prius which gives about 60-70 hp. and batteries from a leaf or another electric car. It would take some serious engineering work but making a controller that maintains a specific level of boost when you are on the gas would be possible. Not sure what psi you run but I think the Prius motor would pull 10psi minimum. Which means you gain that power back at the crank. Nissan leaf motors are 110hp if you run more than 10psi...

Looks like we would need two of the leaf motors since 23 pounds is the highest so far.

[revkev6]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Looks like we would need two of the leaf motors since 23 pounds is the highest so far.

Damn that's more than expected... the numbers I have found are 6-7hp per psi. A Chevy volt is 149hp so that would get you to 22.5psi at 7hp per.

[revkev6]

so while we are on the subject of ultra high performance flatheads....

what are the costs of billet cranks running for them?? do you guys run a girdle with a 2 extra main supports??


one of these days I'm going to make my way down to ron's hobby shop and be a fly on the wall to pick his brain for my next build!!!

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by revkev6

so while we are on the subject of ultra high performance flatheads....

what are the costs of billet cranks running for them?? do you guys run a girdle with a 2 extra main supports??


one of these days I'm going to make my way down to ron's hobby shop and be a fly on the wall to pick his brain for my next build!!!

The really good cranks which include the five main option cost a bit over 3 grand. Not something for the average guy to run on the street but for all out use its much better than the off shore options. Call ahead for the visit im sure I will be in the middle of one of those not very fuel efficient flatheads i so like to build for others and my self of course. Fuel economy not spoken here.

[Tim Ayers]

I’ve seen Ronnie’s five main crank set up. It’s pretty impressive. Since I had to take a blood oath and pinky swear that I would not spill trade secrets, that’s all I can say about it.

[Pete]

Here are pics of a 5 main 4 banger girdle and crank and a 3 main 8ba girdle.
The intermediate caps go on from the top on the 5 main one.(no webs in the block)
The cost of these is whatever you can get it done for. I don't know of anyone that is making them for sale.
Everything I do on these engines is public info and has been run.
I want to perpetuate the sport. If I get beat, I will just have to figure out something new for next time. Been there done that.

[jrvariel48]

Gary, I haven't heard back yet on the heads. Hopefully they'll contact me today so we can finish this up!!!

[1931 flamingo]

Tim: I've seen it also and he didn't make me take a blood oath, although he did take some of my money .


Thanks again Ron, it runs good.
Paul in CT

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Tim: I've seen it also and he didn't make me take a blood oath, although he did take some of my money .


Thanks again Ron, it runs good.
Paul in CT

Paul great. Hey this Saturday in Meridan is the Silver City Shake Down good group of hot rods. Held at the PBA should be info on the HAMB
Ronnieroadster

[GreenMonster48]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Paul great. Hey this Saturday in Meridan is the Silver City Shake Down good group of hot rods. Held at the PBA should be info on the HAMB
Ronnieroadster

Yes-sir!
74 Birdsey Ave, Meriden CT at the Police Benevolent club.
Gates open at 10am!

[Strick]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

This is interesting for around that same time (2003) Navarro introduced his hi flow head. It is a pop up, slightly angled piston design. At the time, the only pistons being made for this set up were from Arias @ $1,000 a set and the heads were a $100 premium over the $675 price for a "nostalgic" set.

I balked at the price for the set up. From what I understand, Ross now is also making pistons for this set up and the price is around their normal custom piston price of $700.

From what I gather, this set up is a great compromise between flow and compression.

Tim - what is the compression ratio of the "nostalgia" set? I got mine from him in 2002

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Strick

Tim - what is the compression ratio of the "nostalgia" set? I got mine from him in 2002

That can't be known unless you know the displacement of the engine (bore / stroke) as well as the piston to cylinder head clearance.

[Strick]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

That can't be known unless you know the displacement of the engine (bore / stroke) as well as the piston to cylinder head clearance.

Didn't correctly type what I was asking...the cylinder head number (i.e. 425, 400, 375, etc.) sometimes stamped near the water outlet opening on some heads. guess the valve to cylinder head clearance was more appropriate to ask.

[48fordnut]

What an amazing source of F/H info. Read the whole thing and I'm sure I picked up a thing or two.
Thanks all.


jim

[Capitan Insano]

I am fixing the CNC program right now. After using my same CNC guy for 12 years I trusted him and his guys got lazy. I am fixing the problem now and will not let it go on.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Capitan Insano

I am fixing the CNC program right now. After using my same CNC guy for 12 years I trusted him and his guys got lazy. I am fixing the problem now and will not let it go on.

Glad to hear it, Mike.

[Bored&Stroked]

Hey Mike - I know you and your commitment to what we do. Thanks for taking the time to review this thread and take action - really says a lot.

Every single company/person that produces products understands the challenges of production and quality control - there are always fights to be had. We appreciate you taking this on and communicating on this thread.

My very first set of heads were from Barney Navarro (45 years ago) and my latest set of heads are Navarros - it is important that we keep his legacy (and yours) intact. Quality, commitment and performance are everything . . . as always.

1975 - Antique Nats - 284 Flathead (and I won my class with them!):

1934Ford-4Door-EngineRear.jpg

What a young long-hair!

1934Ford-4Door-Angle copy.jpg

44 years later . . . my latest 284 Flathead:

13719494_10153740475862864_8626741441507731759_o copy.jpg

[glennpm]

Hi Strick.

Take a look at this set of charts put together by James Leis. PDF of charts is in the first post.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ferrerid=55059


Glenn

[RalphM]

That is a great chart to have! Worth printing out and laminating in my Flathead books.

[glennpm]

Yes, its excellent!

[Mart]

Thanks for giving an insight to what is considered cutting edge for these old motors. I'm just pleased to get one running at all! I feel humbled by the knowledge shared here.

Mart.

[Strick]

Originally Posted by glennpm

Hi Strick.

Take a look at this set of charts put together by James Leis. PDF of charts is in the first post.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ferrerid=55059


Glenn

Thanks Glenn!