School me on flatheads... Did I bite off more than I can chew?

[FordMike]

So I went over to a buddy's place to help him get his car going this past weekend and after we got it going he says he found this old flathead under his deck. When he build his 36 ford truck he stashed this away and opted for a buick engine. Now I know he did his truck in the 80s so this thing has set for a very long time... Well we went and checked it out, the first major thing I noticed was it didn't have the heads on it, but he said if I wanted it, I could have it. If anyone knows me I never pass up a freebie, so I got it. This is when we first got it home... As you can see it has no heads and it pretty badly seized up.



but the whole engine was covered pretty well under his deck. Anyway, the first thing we did was take the trans off. It was really locked up and took a lot longer than I expected. The clutch and pressure plate were actually rusted together. After getting it off we spent the whole day messing with the gears and getting them to move around. Well we actually got it to shift and then we steamed it off. The only trouble was the throw out bearing was stuck on the with a few taps it came off along with half of the retainer it slides on. Its a real bummer that it broke but it looks to me like it was cracked before I got my hands on it, oh well no biggie.



With the trans stashed away I decided to tear the engine down. As I was looking at the engine closely, it looks like it has sleeves. My question is did they all have sleeves and is it possible for me to press them out and get new ones in without sending it out to a machine shop? I actually don't know what year this thing even is, I do know it is a 24 stud and I am not familiar with these engines. Every flathead I have ever tinkered with was a 21 stud. Sorry if this has been covered here 100 times, I am not to computer savvy. I'm just trying to get some info on this thing, and see if its possible to get it going again. Oh and I apologize for writing a book as well.

I'll post more as I take it down

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[Bruce Lancaster]

Looks like a '39-40 221...many of these came with thin sleeves stock, allowing rebuild by pressing out the old ones and in with the new. Could also be '38...would need pic of front pulley to tell.
Rebuilding this rusted lump is crazy, and I really like the idea!
PS...serial # at top front of trans casting will tell you year IF trans an engine left detroit together...

[Mike51Merc]

Nothing a little WD-40 won't fix.

[19Fordy]

Remember, "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

What you have there is now a boat anchor.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Looks like a '39-40 221...many of these came with thin sleeves stock, allowing rebuild by pressing out the old ones and in with the new. Could also be '38...would need pic of front pulley to tell.
Rebuilding this rusted lump is crazy, and I really like the idea!
PS...serial # at top front of trans casting will tell you year IF trans an engine left detroit together...

Thanks for the great info! I'll be cleaning it up real good within the next couple days and I'll keep an eye out for any numbers or dates. Heres the front, I'm guessing there is a missing pulley at the end.



I was just out tinkering trying to get the water pumps off. The one on the drivers side came right off after taking the 3 exposed bolts out. The passengers side, well... I didn't know there was a sneaky bolt hidden inside that wasn't on the other side for some reason... Needless to say I gave it a little tap because I thought it was stuck...



!!

[FordMike]

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Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Remember, "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

What yuo have there is now a boat anchor.

Oh come on now, don't be so black and white.

Trust me we've been told its a boat anchor before and its always turned out ok.

[rotorwrench]

You can buy repro water pumps and there are a lot of old cores out there too. Looks like a crank mounted fan was on it. I've saved a few rusty ones like that but few will pass muster when the corrosion pebbles out to much solid iron. If there was no water in it, it might not have any freeze cracks unless it had some before it went under the deck. Pan rails crack open if it freezes up real bad. The cylinder decks can be skimmed a bit to clean them up if they aren't too badly rusted up. You might have to cut the pistons out to prevent further cylinder wall damage or distortion. The old 221 engines had thinner cylinder walls so you could only bore them about as far as modern blocks. If the sleeves didn't rust through, you might still have something there. If nothing else, there is still a crank & some rods if they didn't get rusty.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

You can buy repro water pumps and there are a lot of old cores out there too. Looks like a crank mounted fan was on it. I've saved a few rusty ones like that but few will pass muster when the corrosion pebbles out to much solid iron. If there was no water in it, it might not have any freeze cracks unless it had some before it went under the deck. Pan rails crack open if it freezes up real bad. The cylinder decks can be skimmed a bit to clean them up if they aren't too badly rusted up. You might have to cut the pistons out to prevent further cylinder wall damage or distortion. The old 221 engines had thinner cylinder walls so you could only bore them about as far as modern blocks. If the sleeves didn't rust through, you might still have something there. If nothing else, there is still a crank & some rods if they didn't get rusty.

Thats what I figure, there are alot of good parts. Its more of a learning curve for me too. Even if the engine is junk I still learned how they go together. I wasnt too concerned about busting the water pump because from my experience with model A engines they would just leak like sives when you get the engine together. There was a little water in the pan, very little. I checked the block out very closely and I dont notice any cracks. My one main question would be how could I get the sleeves out. I saw you can buy sleeves in the macs catalog so I figured you could change them yourself. I don't plan to get it machined. If it comes down to that I will probably keep the good parts and junk the rest.


Right now my hang up is the oil sump won't come out, and the rod for the fuel pump wont either. Is there something I'm missing? I know there is a gear on the oil pump which is surely froze up which wont allow it to come out.

[Mike in AZ]

looks like you're having fun, so keep on playing....not a lot of differences between the earlier flatheads and the one you have, so you have some knowledge of flatheads....good luck....lots of info on the link....very helpful.....Mike

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm

[1952henry]

Might turn out okay; if you have the time, it doesn't cost anything beyond penetrating fluid and blood to tear it down. I had one ('37) that wasn't quite that unsightly (it was close as it had sat outside). Long story short, a friend was able to salvage the crank.

If nothing else, the oilpan and transmission case/parts might be of value to someone.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Mike in AZ

looks like you're having fun, so keep on playing....not a lot of differences between the earlier flatheads and the one you have, so you have some knowledge of flatheads....good luck....lots of info on the link....very helpful.....Mike

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm

Its much easier to learn by doing so I'm definitely having fun!
Thanks for the link too, there is a ton of good info there. Looks like I found some rainy day reading material!

Originally Posted by 1952henry

Might turn out okay; if you have the time, it doesn't cost anything beyond penetrating fluid and blood to tear it down. I had one ('37) that wasn't quite that unsightly (it was close as it had sat outside). Long story short, a friend was able to salvage the crank.

If nothing else, the oilpan and transmission case/parts might be of value to someone.

I have more time than money and brains so I'll be alright! Thats my plan, just try and get it as far apart as I can then steam clean it real good and see what I'm left with!

[~~Walts37~~]

Mike
Just make sure of one thing (Have fun) & keep the fingers crossed
~~Walts37~~

[Cecil/WV]

You might run a weld bead down the sleeve and pull it out, but be careful not to burn through.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Cecil/WV

You might run a weld bead down the sleeve and pull it out, but be careful not to burn through.

Thank you this is exactly the suggestions I was looking for! This is better than my plan of attack

[Straightpipes]

You must give blood to the flathead gods.........This usually happens when you start disassembling the valves

[Ol' Ron]

You need an old motors manual and a few other books like mine or jWL's.
But the best tool for disasembly is the 50/50 mix of aceatome and ATF.
You have fun.

[19Fordy]

FordMike,
Ok, I'll reconsider after seeing what you "saved" and brought back to life.
My thinking is that for the amount of time and money involved to revive that engine, it might be wiser to get one in better condition.
Got to admit, you did a super job on your truck. Looks great.

[thirt4]

Ol' Ron, what is "aceatome" ? What is it normally used for and where would one go to purchase it? I have plenty of ATF.
By the way, my late mother-in-law lived in Newfane, Vt. I just see that you are from Vt.
Pretty country there for sure.

[Fibber Mcgee]

Originally Posted by thirt4

Ol' Ron, what is "aceatome" ? What is it normally used for and where would one go to purchase it? I have plenty of ATF.
By the way, my late mother-in-law lived in Newfane, Vt. I just see that you are from Vt.
Pretty country there for sure.

You can find acetone in the paint dept.at just about any hardware store.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Front view verifies long crank, '39-40 engine. Keep track of all the caps...rods may well be usable. If you are crazy enough to keep going and don't find any catastrophic freeze cracks I've got the sleeve pounderinner tool...
I think very early in this process...get the thing hot tanked, it is far beyond home cleaning, so you can scrutiniaze the iron for cracks. Most tanking solutions will eat out the pistons, but at some cost to the machinest who will have to add more chemicals. If someone will do that, that would be a great non-destructive way to disassemble frozen pistons...
What's missing up front is a crank driven fan used on '39-41 Fords.

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Front view verifies long crank, '39-40 engine. Keep track of all the caps...rods may well be usable. If you are crazy enough to keep going and don't find any catastrophic freeze cracks I've got the sleeve pounderinner tool...
I think very early in this process...get the thing hot tanked, it is far beyond home cleaning, so you can scrutiniaze the iron for cracks. Most tanking solutions will eat out the pistons, but at some cost to the machinest who will have to add more chemicals. If someone will do that, that would be a great non-destructive way to disassemble frozen pistons...
What's missing up front is a crank driven fan used on '39-41 Fords.

Might have disposal problems, but a container with powdered lye in water would help to dissolve the aluminum pistons.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

THis is what I'd do. Remove the crank, stamp the front and center main cap so you'll know where they go if this thing ever goes back together. Remove all the rod caps that you can get off, there will be a couple that you cain't get to the rod nuts. With the main caps off you can usually pry up the crank enough to get the rest of the rod nut off. Once you get the crank out put plenty of penatrating on on top of the pistons, let them set a couple of days. NOW, start pounding on top of the pistons, if you see there not going to move, get a big hole saw about 2-3/4 and bore a hole in the top of the piston, now you can take a big punch on top of the of the rod and with a heavy hammer you can break the skirt of the pist off and out comes the rod, now with a heavy punch you can break edge of the piston where the rings go and all that junk is out of the cyl. Now the valves are going to be a problem for someone who hasn't done this. I'm sure there all rusted in. Just remember, don't try to save anything in the valve train. I take a torch and cut the valve springs and cut the valve stem about 1/4in. below the guide. Now clean that crap out of the valley. Now this is easier with 2 men, heat the bottom of the guide that sticks down in the valley cherry red, and with the help of the other guy and a long crow bar about about 6 feet long, pry up on the 1/4in. of valve stem that is still below the guide, once you get the head of the valve off the seat you can take a heavy coal chisel under the edge of the valve and some times snap the head of the valve off, If it don'r snap off it will bend enough so you can take the torch and cut the stem just under the head. After you get heads off now you can take a big punch and drive the guides down. Now you've got all the valve train out. Now you can turn the engine over and and squirt penatrating on the botton of the lifters and with a long screw driver drive them up just so you can remove the cam, after removeing the cam turn the right side up and with a long punch drive the lifters down and they will drop on the floor. After you have got every off the block that you can get off, Don't forget to remove the main line oil plugs behind the cam gear and one on the back of the block after taking that rear gear cover off. About the only thing left to remove is the cam bearings, probably be easier to let the machine shop that is going to clean the engine remove them. NOW, the best place to have it cleaned is a shop that has a baking oven. They will bake that engine and then put it into a short peen maching and it will come out just like a brand new block. I have all my engines baked before I start machining them. Those steel sleeves will come out, I remove them and bore another .045 to 3-3/16 and use 8BA std pistons. Walt

[Bruce Lancaster]

Listen to Walt. Don't know where Tobyhanna is...I'm in northern NJ and can lend you a couple of secret weapon valvetrain tools.

[Ol' Ron]

And that my friends is how it's done. You can also cut the rods off with a torch.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Listen to Walt. Don't know where Tobyhanna is...I'm in northern NJ and can lend you a couple of secret weapon valvetrain tools.

Tobyhanna is in northeast Pa between Scranton and Stroudsburg. According to Mapquest you're only about an hour and a half away... Thats not too bad, I'd definitely make the trip in order to learn the ways of a flathead master! We will have to work something out.

Walt I cant thank you enough for the step by step approach. I got the front main cap off, and it seriously looks good to me, I'll take a picture when it finally stops raining. I also got every rod nut off except for 2 and I'm fairly sure I can get them off if I make a tool to get in to them. I have the middle main cap loose, just a little more monkeying around and I can get that off. As for the rear main, I cant get the oil pump off and out of the way so I really cant get the breaker bar in there to lay on the torque. I assume the oil pump is froze up on the gear were it meets up with the cam. The fuel pump rod is the same way, it is also stuck for some reason. I will continue to tinker and get some pictures. As far as I can tell tho the crank and rods look to be in fairly good condition.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

You need an old motors manual and a few other books like mine or jWL's.
But the best tool for disasembly is the 50/50 mix of aceatome and ATF.
You have fun.

I would agree. This block maybe a good candidate for the molasass descaling/derusting trick.

If anything, you'll have either have a nice 48 or 78 series trans case.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

FlatMike. On the oil pump. Take a big pipe wrench and grab the pump right at the big part by the gears, Now, twist the pump back and forth, squirt some weasel piss around the bottom, now try prying up on the pump while twisting, DONT break the pump off, it will be harder to get out. NOW, on the fuel pump push rod, don't break it off, if you do you won't be able to get the cam out. squirt weasel piss around the bottom of the rod and take a hammer and keep tapping down on the rod while carfully twisting the rod with vise grips. Walt

[flatjack9]

If you have the pistons and valves out, you can try rotating the cam to get the pushrod to move while soaking it with Walt's weasel piss.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Sleeves...if this has the normal production line sleeves they are only about .040 thick, with the top part looking thicker because there is a locating step there. Welding might go right through and scar the wall or even worse succeed as a weld...
I've never worked on a sleeve motor but I believe they can just be collapsed. At that point, new sleeves give instant bore fix or you can over bore a bit and go from 221 to 239 size and get those bargain standard size pistons...

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Sleeves...if this has the normal production line sleeves they are only about .040 thick, with the top part looking thicker because there is a locating step there. Welding might go right through and scar the wall or even worse succeed as a weld...
I've never worked on a sleeve motor but I believe they can just be collapsed. At that point, new sleeves give instant bore fix or you can over bore a bit and go from 221 to 239 size and get those bargain standard size pistons...

The de-sleeving tool for a tin sleeve motor looks like a sheet metal sheer used in a air hammer. Looks like a chisel with a little notch in it. Smack it with a BFH (big freakin' hammer) and the sleeve will start to peel away and tear. This only works for tin sleeves. Cast iron sleeves are another ball of wax.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Twist like Walt says on the pump. also remove the rear cover over the pump drive as an extra window above the problem area. You woll soon have crank out or at least dangling so you can try turning cam using a dragling socket in disteributor slot. If cam gear is bolt-on you can free it right now that way; if press-on consider just prying to break the gear away. Don't turn too hard if cam won't rotate, but you might be able to move multiple things with the force available turning.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

FlatMike. On the oil pump. Take a big pipe wrench and grab the pump right at the big part by the gears, Now, twist the pump back and forth, squirt some weasel piss around the bottom, now try prying up on the pump while twisting, DONT break the pump off, it will be harder to get out. NOW, on the fuel pump push rod, don't break it off, if you do you won't be able to get the cam out. squirt weasel piss around the bottom of the rod and take a hammer and keep tapping down on the rod while carfully twisting the rod with vise grips. Walt

I'm going to try this out. I really want to get that fuel pump rod out of there before I bend it or break it. Also if I can get the oil pump out of the way I should be able to get the crank out shortly after. The cover in the bellhousing at the end of the cam wouldn't come off. I didn't try too hard to pry it off because I didn't want to break it.

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Sleeves...if this has the normal production line sleeves they are only about .040 thick, with the top part looking thicker because there is a locating step there. Welding might go right through and scar the wall or even worse succeed as a weld...
I've never worked on a sleeve motor but I believe they can just be collapsed. At that point, new sleeves give instant bore fix or you can over bore a bit and go from 221 to 239 size and get those bargain standard size pistons...

I am assuming the sleeves are stock as the pistons have STD stamped into the top. Although the engine could have been bored out then sleeved back to standard size, but I doubt it. I dont know about welding on the sleeves though, I probably wont be doing that.

I am not sure if it is anything or not but I remembered ford tractors having sleeves, and I know there was a tool to get the sleeves out because my grandfather had one. I was just wondering if there was some kind of tool to remove these sleeves if they in the engine stock. Anyway, heres the tool I'm referring too...

[Bruce Lancaster]

There were indeed pullers available...you are looking for one with 3 1/16 diameter on small sept, roughly 080 bigger on large part for 221.
Tractor and 239 flathead wer 3 3/16 and sets usually had a small one for V8 60 too.
Inserter is a big thing to support the thin sleeves during installation.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Most of the 8N-9N Ford tractors had those same sleeves, .040 thick, they will peel out. Some of the tractors had .090 wall thick sleeves, they don't peel very easy. I've even peeled the .040 thick ones with a sharp long screw driver. it's hard on the screw driver handel. Walt

[FordMike]

Alright I got the number off the trans but I haven't found the number on the engine.



I did get the oil pump and fuel pump rod out without breaking anything or causing any damage, of course I followed Walt's directions carefully. The oil pump seems to be in good shape, I actually expected there to be much more rust on the gear...



Other than that I got the rear main loose and the last two rod cap nuts off. Getting the main caps off and rod caps off is a real pain. I bet I'm missing something but I got half the rod caps off and one main. It looks to be pretty good, especially for an engine that is locked up so bad. I definitely don't think its a total junker.

The crank...



And the cap...



And that's it...

Unfortunately I am working on this thing outside and the sun is setting earlier and earlier everyday. But I am oiling this thing down and rapping it up tight every night so I don't take 1 step forward and 5 back. Just have to get the rest of the caps off and the crank should be free...

[Tim Ayers]

Dude, do yourself a favor. Get some of those cheap doctor-like gloves at Home Depot or something.

If anything, you'll learn quickly that old Ford grease stays with you longer than some tattoos.

[flatjack9]

The transmission is a 1936. Obviously your engine is not. There are no numbers on the engine.

[FordMike]

Alright it must be the stock trans from the truck, someone just swapped the engine out some time ago.

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Dude, do yourself a favor. Get some of those cheap doctor-like gloves at Home Depot or something.

If anything, you'll learn quickly that old Ford grease stays with you longer than some tattoos.

I hate wearing gloves with a passion. If you use a little dawn dish soap with the garden hose it wash sludge/oil/grease right off. The little bit of stains left don't bother me.

[1937pickup]

Are you married or have a girlfriend? The little bit left will bother her. I used to be like you but now I use gloves. Ford grease is in a world of its own.

[firstrider]

Part it out & scrap the rest unless you have $5K laying around doing nothing !!

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

If that block winds up being good after cleaning you can built it alot cheaper than 5K. You sound like a young fellow that reallly likes to work on old engines. This is good experance for you, It will alway be a good hobby. One example, there is alot of 8BA crankshafts laying around. They will bolt right in that 40 block and use the 8BA rods and you can use the single locking lip rod bearings (just like the sbc ones that you are use to) thay are alot cheaper than the full floating bearings in the 40. Also use the 8BA valve train, alot easier than the mushroom ones. If you do alot of the work yourself you can built that engine for less that 2K. When you have any question just ask on the barn. We'll help you right through it. Walt

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

If that block winds up being good after cleaning you can built it alot cheaper than 5K. You sound like a young fellow that reallly likes to work on old engines. This is good experance for you, It will alway be a good hobby. One example, there is alot of 8BA crankshafts laying around. They will bolt right in that 40 block and use the 8BA rods and you can use the single locking lip rod bearings (just like the sbc ones that you are use to) thay are alot cheaper than the full floating bearings in the 40. Also use the 8BA valve train, alot easier than the mushroom ones. If you do alot of the work yourself you can built that engine for less that 2K. When you have any question just ask on the barn. We'll help you right through it. Walt

Now you're speakin' my language! I plan on doing as much as I possibly can by myself, and chances are if I cant do it myself I wont be doing it. That does sound like the best way to go... and I may know where there are a few of those engines laying around. I still have to get the 2 remaining rod caps and 2 main caps off and pull the crank out. I'm having a little trouble getting them off but I'll get it.

I can't thank you guys enough for helping me through this, I'm sure I would have done a lot more harm than good if I didn't get the info I needed from here. I'll keep posting as I get it apart or as I have any questions.

And just to clear it up... I wash my hands enough to get them nice and clean!

[Bruce Lancaster]

Flatheads do not have to be super expensive if you speak scrounge. Most nowadays are being built by fuirly well-heeled older rodders who go deluxe on everything and who patranize specialists...you can doityourself with the local machinest, a bit of instruction to him, and your own sweat.

[Mart]

I pulled the crank from a heavily siezed motor and the two most inaccesible nuts had to be tackled with 3 wrenches, each one was able to turn the nut a fraction, I just kept using each one in turn until I got them off.

Mart.

[FlatheadTed]

Yeah Bruce Id go along with that ,

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Flatheads do not have to be super expensive if you speak scrounge. Most nowadays are being built by fuirly well-heeled older rodders who go deluxe on everything and who patranize specialists...you can doityourself with the local machinest, a bit of instruction to him, and your own sweat.

[Bruce Lancaster]

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My take...sleeves would be do-it-yourself, bore job and crank turn totally normal jobs for any auto shop. If local machinest is under 70 years old, you will need to fully understand your chosen valve set and explain it or find a friend with a grinder and do it yourself. Everything is readily available and your original hard seats will likely clean right up.
We can hope your rods will come out intact and prove to be OK...
You can sleeve to standard 221 or bore to standard 3 3/16...both cheap because you will be the only customer around who can use those standard pistons. Doesn't Joblot always have standard 8BA piston and ring sets cheap still??
The money you save plus the kids' college funf and anything you salvage from the divorce this engine will initiate can be used to bu a Merc Crank...255 time. Or if you find one with enough meat 4 1/8...

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by Mart

I pulled the crank from a heavily siezed motor and the two most inaccesible nuts had to be tackled with 3 wrenches, each one was able to turn the nut a fraction, I just kept using each one in turn until I got them off.

Mart.

I've had to use a small chisel and carefully split some nuts.

[FordMike]

As far as the 2 nuts that I had trouble getting, I just heated a POS harbor freight wrench with a torch and bent it so I could reach in there and turn them.

I still have made no more progress since my last post. Lets face it, this isnt going to be an over the top build by and means, for those of you who didnt know I'm 18 and I'm not one of those brats who gets everything handed to them, hell I'm not even allowed to put this in the garage. I know an old timer in the next town over who rebuilds and hops up 4 bangers (A and B). I'll have to talk to him next time I see him and see if he has any flathead knowledge or if he would be willing to lend me a hand or teach me a little. I have come to the realization that I will probably not have the money to have a machine even look at this. So I wont be holding my breathe that this will be machined. I do know where there is another 24 stud engine which is WAY better than this one but money is tight for me. I thought about that one but I still want to take this one apart. Alright enough of my babbling for the night.

As always everyone thanks for the responses.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Flatheads do not have to be super expensive if you speak scrounge. Most nowadays are being built by fuirly well-heeled older rodders who go deluxe on everything and who patranize specialists...you can doityourself with the local machinest, a bit of instruction to him, and your own sweat.

Let's put that into perspective. I'm doing all of the porting and assembly myself and have stumbled on to really good deals and swapped for some neat parts.

All said and done, the machine work alone will end up costing me $1,200.

Now add up the other parts (not a complete list)
Heads $600 (you don't necessarily need them, but I bought a set from Navarro while he was still alive and running his company)
Pistons $350 (Ross forged)
Potvin cam $140
NOS rods $150
Hi-flow SBC valves $80.00
Johnson lifters resurfaced $40.00
Bearings $50
4" crank $100 + $60 machine work (found that first)
so forth and so on.

You get the picture. But, my 276 c.i. motor will have tons of bling, have some neat ol parts on it, Weber aluminum flywheel, etc.

Still cooler than a SBC, but definitely not cheaper!

[Zaemo]

What everyone seems to be missing here is that this is a '39-'40 Mercury/Ford Truck motor which was 239 to begin with. This block has the thick cylinder walls which will take up to a 3-3/8 bore if you're lucky.
Tear it down and have it cleaned and magnafluxed to see if it's worth your time and money. These blocks are getting harder to find.
Z

[Bruce Lancaster]

Maybe so! I was seeing that central hole as a trapezoid...on looking now, it could well be round with some visual distortion from crud and grainy image!
Slap a ruler on there quick...I suspect Z is correct and you have a 99!
On the costs...forget externals like heads and manifold if you are broke. That stuff can be added later when you recover from first steps or hit lucky in your scrounging.
Bore and valve work is about the same as anything, if you scrounge and swap sleeves yourself cheaper. Pistons...poor people don't use Ross, and Joblot traditionally has deals on the standard pistons you can use if you replace sleeves...
Bearings and such cost more than SBC, rods may turn out ready to clean and re-use or turn out to be another expense...carefully split good rebuild versus parts that can be swapped later, think about the Merc crank, a somewhat pricey beneficial change that you can't really do later...
Now MEASURE THAT BORE WITH A RULER! I am thinking Zaemo saw that middle hole more clearly than I did and you have a 99, a big upgrade!

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Maybe so! I was seeing that central hole as a trapezoid...on looking now, it could well be round with some visual distortion from crud and grainy image!
Slap a ruler on there quick...I suspect Z is correct and you have a 99!
On the costs...forget externals like heads and manifold if you are broke. That stuff can be added later when you recover from first steps or hit lucky in your scrounging.
Bore and valve work is about the same as anything, if you scrounge and swap sleeves yourself cheaper. Pistons...poor people don't use Ross, and Joblot traditionally has deals on the standard pistons you can use if you replace sleeves...
Bearings and such cost more than SBC, rods may turn out ready to clean and re-use or turn out to be another expense...carefully split good rebuild versus parts that can be swapped later, think about the Merc crank, a somewhat pricey beneficial change that you can't really do later...
Now MEASURE THAT BORE WITH A RULER! I am thinking Zaemo saw that middle hole more clearly than I did and you have a 99, a big upgrade!

Bruce:

I agree with almost everything you say: What I don't is pistons. Like valve and machine work, this is a place a I wouldn't go cheap.

Also, it gives you some additional options later down the line. Let's say you wanted to add a blower. Long shot, but who knows. I know I wouldn't tear down a running motor to install new pistons.

Cast pistons are dicey for this application. You can split the diff., get those hypereuthentic (sp??) pistons. Egge and Speedway sell them. They are stronger than cast, but not as strong as a forged and they are priced in between.

If it is a 99 block, you don't want to ruin it by using cheap parts.

Yes, guys have run cast pistons from the day the internal combution engine was created. Doesn't always mean it was the best choice.

It's your money and spend it as you see fit, but for an extra $100 or so dollars, I'd go with Ross pistons. Just my opinion.

[Henry/Kokomo]

Re: cylinder head cost - $600 for cast aluminum after market ones (your choice of brands) or $150 for a pair of good EAB Ford heads. With an overbored block, probably looking at nearly 8:1 CR. With a bore and 4" stroke, 8.5:1 or more. Just a thought.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Henry/Kokomo

Re: cylinder head cost - $600 for cast aluminum after market ones (your choice of brands) or $150 for a pair of good EAB Ford heads. With an overbored block, probably looking at nearly 8:1 CR. With a bore and 4" stroke, 8.5:1 or more. Just a thought.

Henry: Without question one can go with stock Ford heads and do just fine. Just adding some real world costs for comparison sake.

[FordMike]

Bruce that hole is round, and I've done a bit of googling since I checked the thread and saw that it may be a 99 block. I'm not sure if there are anymore tell tail signs of numbers I should look for to be sure it is a 99, heck I'm not even sure the significance of a 99. Other than it is a 239 rather than a 221. I'm pretty sure Zaemo is correct based on everything I've looked at in my little bit of digging

[Henry/Kokomo]

Tim - Good comparison.

Interesting coincidence:I put forged Ross pistons in the engine in my avitar for the exact reason you mentioned. Two great minds. . . . . . . . .

[Zaemo]

Looks like a 39-40 with the exhaust bosses sticking proud of the side of the block. Hard to tell from the pictures.
Google "The Evolution of the Flathead" by Fred Mills. It's great reading for learning about these.
This was the sought after block before the war and sometime after. Ford made the casting thicker in the cylinder walls in order to boost the HP for their premium line of Mercury passenger cars.
I'm getting a '39 block instead of a 59AB for it's historical value. The 59AB being 46-48. The "99" block will fit the era of pre or just post war for my 32 Roadster build. Most every flathead hot rod back in the day claimed to be sporting a Hopped up '39 Merc Engine. Even after the war, average Joe's wouldn't have had access to a brand new 46-48 motor.
If you don't car about that and the block is cracked, go get a nice 59AB. They're not hard to find and no less attractive.
Z

[Bruce Lancaster]

If round, it should be a 99. MOST but not all have "99" stamped in 1/4" characters at RF of manifold surface, but really just measure the bore with a ruler. Also. 99 upper cylinder walls are insanely thick...you can check this where the trapezoid hole is. Your engine just started looking a lot better!
Good cast pistons are fine for stock and for normal mildly rodded street engines...and as with cast cranks, there are advantages over the forged if you are not approaching the conditions that break them! Cast pistons can be fit tighter and if decently designed generally conform better to proper shape as they heat up. Thus the run quieter and wear out more slowly...a street engine with no blower is not going to break them unless something really bad is going on like detonation, which will kill anything. And of course if anything bad is happening, it will happen faster and more violently with a blower...
The current Ross is however much superior in design and shape over early fifties cast pistons, which had no design provisions for uneven expansion and required huge clearances...this stuff has been really scienced out for 350 Chevies but I think not nearly as well for flatheads.
99's were often preferred for the upper tier of dragster and Bonneville flatheads, supposedly, even after the 59 became common.

[Mart]

Did you bite off more than you can chew?

Yes, probably.

Lets be honest. You were given a flathead. It is not in great condition. Although it is theoretically rebuildable it probably is not worth you rebuilding it, unless you have a vehicle ready and waiting for it.

It will be a valuable experience for you just getting good hands on time with that old lump.

Pull it apart. Work out what you have.

But then work out what you want.

It may be that just stashing all those parts will do for now. If the flathead bug has bit, you will stumble across other parts or a complete car, and that stash of parts will come in handy.

To be realistic, I would not advise an 18YO kid to start spending thousands of dollars fixing up an engine.

It's easy to spend other peoples money while tapping away on a keyboard, but in your first post you say you will benefit from just tearing it down, and I think you need to take that as a first step, and not really consider building it back into a running engine.

Just my opinion, other peoples opinion may vary.

Mart.

[dude]

I go along with what Mart has said. Your first learning experience on a Flathead ,is about how truly nasty the insides can be. After 50 years away from the old L head,I built another one. Talk about an addiction. Good luck !!

[Bruce Lancaster]

On this...it's all about whether it has frozen and cracked or not. Once it hits the hot tank, it's no worse than any other block...its general nastiness now is only of concern during the teardown. If uncracked...many would consider a 99 to be the most desirable block for a rod.
Crank will most likely save if you can't afford stroking, rods may well save, pistons and valve gear would be on the replace list for almost any engine getting built.
If it is cracked in a way not worth repairing, you'll at least know how to tear down a flathead!

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Mart

Did you bite off more than you can chew?

Yes, probably.

Lets be honest. You were given a flathead. It is not in great condition. Although it is theoretically rebuildable it probably is not worth you rebuilding it, unless you have a vehicle ready and waiting for it.

It will be a valuable experience for you just getting good hands on time with that old lump.

Pull it apart. Work out what you have.

But then work out what you want.

It may be that just stashing all those parts will do for now. If the flathead bug has bit, you will stumble across other parts or a complete car, and that stash of parts will come in handy.

To be realistic, I would not advise an 18YO kid to start spending thousands of dollars fixing up an engine.

It's easy to spend other peoples money while tapping away on a keyboard, but in your first post you say you will benefit from just tearing it down, and I think you need to take that as a first step, and not really consider building it back into a running engine.

Just my opinion, other peoples opinion may vary.

Mart.

That pretty much sums it up... I originally posted this thread because I had gotten the engine for nothing and didn't know much about flatheads. I figured a few members would chime in if I got stumped, which they did and I am grateful for that. Now I am not trying to knock anyone who posted about hopping up the engine and building it but that just wasn't in my plans. I'm not even 100% sure the block is good. Rebuilding this thing like a race engine is not feasible for my wallet now nor will it be in the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

On this...it's all about whether it has frozen and cracked or not. Once it hits the hot tank, it's no worse than any other block...its general nastiness now is only of concern during the teardown. If uncracked...many would consider a 99 to be the most desirable block for a rod.
Crank will most likely save if you can't afford stroking, rods may well save, pistons and valve gear would be on the replace list for almost any engine getting built.
If it is cracked in a way not worth repairing, you'll at least know how to tear down a flathead!

Thats what I'm thinking, its a good way to learn. I am still very doubtful that the engine is cracked. If and when I do get it apart it will be cleaned and most likely stashed away somewhere until I can get the funds necessary for building right. Maybe I never will who knows!

I'm still tinkering with the caps and I'll update when I get the crank out

[Mike in AZ]

good attitude, FordMike....keep tearing it down and see what ya got....and whether you store it for later when funds allow you to go further or whatever you do, you have gained knowledge about the flatheads....and hopefully you have caught the flathead bug and will continue to have fun with them in the future...good luck....Mike

[Bruce Lancaster]

The ante is now waaaay up, too; I had thought it was an 81A, now it's a 99, the top of the heap hotrod starter. DEFINITELY worth careful disassembly and analysis.

[Tim Ayers]

Being this is a 99A block, I would seriously consider finding a 55 gallon barrel and having this motor take a long, nice de-rusting bath in either Kerosene or that molasass mixture. This is a block that is worth saving for sure

[flatjack9]

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I would take it to a shop that does the bake and blast method of cleaning.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

I would take it to a shop that does the bake and blast method of cleaning.

I believe you need to strip it down to a bare block for this. The kerosene or molasass is to help loosen everything up.

I would also recommend 'Ol Ron's flathead juice in the meantime. Acetone & ATF. Works better than most over the counter stuff and it's a lot cheaper.

[FordMike]

FINALLY!!!

I managed to get all the rod caps off along with the main caps and get the crank out. Also... all the rods are free and move around. I'm a little confused because the caps say 99 on them while the rods say 29, I'm not sure if thats how it is supposed to be or not.



Now onto trying to get the pistons out, then the valves... oh joy... But atleast I'm making progress, first before all of that I plan to try and get it mounted to an engine stand because its only a matter of time before the snow flies and if its still outside then, I wont be working on it till spring!

[Mike in AZ]

keep your end caps marked as to where they came from....if you can save your con. rods, need correct caps....i think...lol....looks pretty clean so far.....are ya having fun yet??.....keep on having it....Mike

[cmbrucew]

Ford Mike
looks like you are almost there.
Some penetrant top and bottom, then work the pistons up and down gently.
Cut a piece of hardwood to fit inside the cylinder to tap on the top of the piston, and a hardwood dowell to tap the rod end. Try to save everything.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Mike in AZ

keep your end caps marked as to where they came from....if you can save your con. rods, need correct caps....i think...lol....looks pretty clean so far.....are ya having fun yet??.....keep on having it....Mike

I wouldnt call it funnn but its sure is an experience! Its slowly becoming more of a challenge than anything else.

Originally Posted by cmbrucew

Ford Mike
looks like you are almost there.
Some penetrant top and bottom, then work the pistons up and down gently.
Cut a piece of hardwood to fit inside the cylinder to tap on the top of the piston, and a hardwood dowell to tap the rod end. Try to save everything.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time

If only it were that easy, this engine has sat without the heads on it for atleast 30 years and they are stuck fast. I want to get the engine on the engine stand and then fill the cylinders up with a mix and let them soak for a week or better. Then I have access to a 10 ton porta-power which should press them out with the help of a plate almost as large as the piston. We've used that technique on other, much larger engines and it worked like a charm. A couple of the pistons dont look like they will come out through the bottom, for those it will be back to the drawing board but I'm sure something will come up.

[Mart]

If the pistons are scrap, just get underneath the head of the piston with a long punch and smack the head right off the piston. Once the head has gone, the piston loses all its strength and will move quite easily with a bit more lube and knockery.

I have a badly siezed lump here and may video the technique to show how easy it is.

Mart.

[flatjack9]

I wouldn't waste the time soaking them. Just beat them out. I've soaked some for ages and when I finally pounded them out, you could see that nothing had seeped by. When they are stuck that tight, brute force is required.

[cmbrucew]

Ford Mike

When you get a piston moved down 1/2", use a cylinder hone to clean up the top of the bore, then you can drive the rod and piston out the top.
Do not use the bell housing to support the engine on the stand, but make a plate to use the exhaust bolt holes. Remember to support both sides of the engine while pounding on the pistons.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time

[FordMike]

Alright guys it's been awhile and I hope there are still some people checking this out that can help. I haven't done a whole lot but I did manage to get the engine inside today. I read an article about block markings so I cleaned the engine off a little bit to see what I could find...

Now I found what I assume to be the block number which is the 99 but I have no idea what the .030 above it stands for, and ideas? At first I had thought that it could be the bore without sleeves but I've been wrong before...



On the drivers side of the engine I found something a little different. When I took the crank out the bearings looked like new so I figured the engine was rebuild in the past but after seeing this it really made me think it was rebuild, professionally. Once again I am assuming here but I was thinking the large numbers are the serial numbers? I don't know just a shot in the dark. But all of the large numbers have a 1 stamped over them. The first 3 also appears to have an A L stamped on it. The smaller numbers I read as a rebuild date, 5/10/76 which fits the time period it would have been in the truck I don't know if I'm right or not...



And here are some other markings I found on the block. This one also looks like it was covered but with 7s. This is on the front right over the timing cover.



These are on the passengers side down from the 99. One is what looks like a Z in a circle and the other is D or a triangle inside of a diamond shape. I didn't know if they had any significances or not so I figured I would just post them.



I was also thinking about removing the sleeves and pistons and I figured I would run this by everyone and see if it would be doing more harm than good. I was wondering since the sleeves are so thin if you could just heat a strip down the cylinder up and not cut it but melt it out since the metal in the sleeve would heat at a much faster rate than the block, this would also in turn melt the piston out too.

Just a fleeting thought... As always thanks for checking it out!

[Ken/Alabama]

I would remove the piston by what ever means it takes but I wouldnt try to remove the sleeves,let the machine shop handle any sleeve work be it removing or reboring. If you indeed do have a 99 block I wouldnt want to chance doing any damage.

[rotorwrench]

You can use a hole saw on the top of the piston if your careful and cut it down far enough to weaken the structure. Some folks just start drilling holes around the top but it's a little harder on dome top pistons. After the dome is sufficiently weakened it will pop off a lot easier. Use a hack saw blade to cut the skirt to allow it to contract for removal. A lot of those old pistons are split skirt types so this might be easier on those. What's left will come out without a lot of harsh pounding. It's a lot of work but it insures the cylinder wall won't be distorted while beating the pistons out. It just depends on how much corrosion grew in between the skirt and the cylinder wall as to how much pressure it will take to get them out. Whacking them up and down can sometimes get this build up of corrosion to bust up & get more clearance for movement. If too much corrosion is between there, the walls can get distorted trying to remove the damn things.

Someone went ape with the stamps on that thing. There isn't any figures on there other than the "99" that make any sense to me. A rebuilder may have been trying to say something there but I sure don't know what it is.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

You can use a hole saw on the top of the piston if your careful and cut it down far enough to weaken the structure. Some folks just start drilling holes around the top but it's a little harder on dome top pistons. After the dome is sufficiently weakened it will pop off a lot easier. Use a hack saw blade to cut the skirt to allow it to contract for removal. A lot of those old pistons are split skirt types so this might be easier on those. What's left will come out without a lot of harsh pounding. It's a lot of work but it insures the cylinder wall won't be distorted while beating the pistons out. It just depends on how much corrosion grew in between the skirt and the cylinder wall as to how much pressure it will take to get them out. Whacking them up and down can sometimes get this build up of corrosion to bust up & get more clearance for movement. If too much corrosion is between there, the walls can get distorted trying to remove the damn things.

Someone went ape with the stamps on that thing. There isn't any figures on there other than the "99" that make any sense to me. A re builder may have been trying to say something there but I sure don't know what it is.

I'm going to start trying to get the pistons out very soon, and I will most likely be trying to do it like you said. A bunch of people have recommended this and that seems to be the best bet.

As far as the numbers I'm with you. The 99 was the only thing that made sense to me. Thanks for the response!

[Bruce Lancaster]

Probably a mix of rebuilder's ID numbers, inspection stamps from 1940, etc.
Ford books list a bunch of ID stuff to indicate things like sleeve motors vs iron bores, which were made at the same time, but they are often not there. I believe a bunch of these usually 2-letter codes are in the '39 resto book.
Folklore...the reason only early 239's had the "99"...allegedly, it was so they could be distinguished from visually identical 221's on the line. Then...probably due to mistakes involving slow Mercs and fast Ford mysteriously appearing...somewhere around 1941 someone got the idea of simply having the foundry paint 239's blue to make them unmistakable.

[Mart]

Please be careful, I managed to damage my block whole pounding out the pistons. I managed to punch through the side of the cylinder wall.

Not one of my finest moments.

Mart.

[FordMike]

Ok tried my luck on a piston today. I started by drilling a hole in the top. Upon inspection I didn't think there was anyway I could simply hit and break the rod down out of the piston so I heated and melted the piston a bit. I got the rod and wrist pin out with no damage and the piston or what is left of it is large gobs of aluminum on the garage floor and either way the bore is completely shot... The wrist pins are tight and seem like they have no wear on them at all. I was wondering... The rods have 29A on them and I was wondering if that means they were out of a different engine or do they all have that on them?

Either way its getting there. I can post a couple pictures up tomorrow if I can get out to the garage and not get blown away in this hurricane!

After these pistons come out I get to have fun with the valves, which I have no clue what I'm doing there. I also have to get a bunch of studs out which I'm not too excited about doing especially if the threads go into the water jackets. If they don't that would be awesome but still I want to break as few of these off as I possibly can...

Sorry for a rant, pics tomorrow

[leon renaud]

subscribed ;
I just made a deal for V8 and automatic trans out of a 50 Ford sedan, At 58 years old I will be starting my first ever flat head tear down/rebuild over the winter traded a Econoline axle I got free for the Flattie to go with a bunch of other Ford flattie drive line pieces I've collected.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by leon renaud

subscribed ;
I just made a deal for V8 and automatic trans out of a 50 Ford sedan, At 58 years old I will be starting my first ever flat head tear down/rebuild over the winter traded a Econoline axle I got free for the Flattie to go with a bunch of other Ford flattie drive line pieces I've collected.

Thank you, hopefully you'll be able to use some info others have posted on here and most importantly you will learn to NOT get an engine this bad!!


Ok sorry, I know I promised pics awhile ago but between having no power for quite a few days and cleaning up all the storm debris I couldn't find the time. Well now everything is back to normal and pistons are poppin out left and right!.... Well again not really they are a little hard to get out to say the least.




Needless to say it put up a little bit of a fight...

The bore is also complete toast, but I have been talking to alot of old timers locally and I may just may have found someone with the tool to take the sleeves out. I'm not going to hold my breath and I'm still thinking of how it could be done at home.

Until next time

[Bruce Lancaster]

The sleeves (I assume 040 oem sleeves, not cast iron rebuild ones) can be removed by simply collapsing them. Find a way like screwdriver and hammer against the top edge (which is thicker than the main part of sleeve, it fits into a groove as stop) to start it inward. Once you have a gap, you drive in a tool to collapse the thing...there was a purpose made sort of triangular punch, if I did this I would try to use something non-ferrous to minimize damage to the real wall.
I have the tool for installing, essentially a huge screw and an iron slug that fits into and supports sleeve. Tobyhanna is eastern PA, right?

[Bruce Lancaster]

For valves, I assume stock early type with mushroom valve stems...killer combo is cam-action tool that grips guide retainer and pulls it out (you have to steel yourself for the destruction of a 15 cent part times 16!!), then the big KD C-clamp which yanks the assembly outtathere no matter what. Got those tools here.
Ford method from manual will keep you occupied for days and cost you a quart of blood...
No-tool way, assuming that valves are not candidates for re-education, is to drill hole at center of each valve, increasing size until head can be broken off. Then guide can be driven down with suitable socket as the punch, keeperator removed, and you have applied enough violence to make lever much more effective. Always try the lever first, by the way...I have been surprised a few times by guides that had read the shop manual and knew they were supposed to move...

[out plowing]

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Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

For valves, ... will keep you occupied for days and cost you a quart of blood...

that no joke... i have been at it for over a year. I got one with a broken off head, seized in the up position. So not a lot of room to get the KD puller in to pop it up. may just need to drill the center and put a blow torch and heat the guide up and let it cool back down. then let the slide-hammer do the rest of the work.

[Bruce Lancaster]

On the studs...I have and recommend a Snap-on collett type that locks onto the threads and turns concentrically with the stud. It is similar to the Ford one shown in the '37-48 Ford engine overhaul book (GET ONE!!!), but bigger and adaptable to other sizes. I can lend you that...extracting broken studs can be even less fun than removing guides. Do not run a tap in holes...class 4 or something threads in there.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

On the studs...I have and recommend a Snap-on collett type that locks onto the threads and turns concentrically with the stud. It is similar to the Ford one shown in the '37-48 Ford engine overhaul book (GET ONE!!!), but bigger and adaptable to other sizes. I can lend you that...extracting broken studs can be even less fun than removing guides. Do not run a tap in holes...class 4 or something threads in there.

I'm almost positive there is a stud remover somewhere in the garage. I'll have to dig it out. I was starting to think I need a book or something because some of the things I'm find aren't adding up with the little info I know. I also found out fairly quickly that there isn't a whole lot of info about these 99 motors on the web.

I figured I would post this up in case anyone has a flathead that is a little stuck like mine. It's just basically a few pictures showing how we are removing these pistons/ sleeves, hopefully it will help someone out.

Started off by boring a hole in the top of the piston.... Its got to be fairly centered because you dont want to hit the rings, also you have to be careful to not go crazy and drill into the wrist pins.



Now a couple of good whacks on the top should bust it off. We are then just melting an inch of so wide chunk out of the piston all the way down. The aluminum heats up much faster than the block of sleeve.



Then just get a bar and pound it out. Its pretty straight forward as long as you don't go crazy.


On the next cylinder over we got a little wild and burned a hole in the sleeve, so I guess its time to try and get one of them out. This was actually alot easier than I imagined. Just heated the hell out of the sleeve and stuck a screwdriver under it to buckle it. Safety first, ignore the lack of safety in this pic, we're professionals!



Half way through...



And the outcome...



One de-sleeved flathead cylinder. This cylinder has a little divit in the wall, I'm pretty sure that its not cracked, at least in this cylinder.



Now were these engines bored out from the factory? It's stamped .030 right above and it appears to me to be in a factory font. I'm just thinking this over because I looked in the mac's catalog and there are sleeves in there that are 1/8 and even though I dont have a micrometer I put this sleeve against a .030 feeler gauge and it looks like a match. I dont know, I just have a feeling that this thing was made to accept ford pistons. I don't know maybe I'm crazy, I forgot to measure the bore without the sleeve, I will have to get it tomorrow...

Until next time...

[Bruce Lancaster]

I think the OEM sleeves are around 040, and have a step fit into block at top. Repair sleeves are entirely different and much thicker, and of course would have been nearly impossible to remove so readily.
Maybe the 030 refers to crank...there were no different sizes of original type sleeves, as replacing them constituted a rebuild to stock...3 3/16"
Replacement really needs the Ford tool or an equicalent machined piece to support the sleeve, as it is thin enough to buckle as it is pulled in by the tool.

[FordMike]

Hey guys, its been a long time and I figured I'd put a little update here. I do believe it or not still have this engine and against my better judgement still plan on working on it. I'm not sure if anyone is still following this anymore or even cares about my crazy antics but I am going to start tinkering with this engine again, this time hopefully I'll make some progress.

Well, its been around a year and a LOT has changed. I have gained some knowledge on flatheads and I also got my hands on an original repair manual for Ford & Mercury V8 engines from 37-46 which has been able to give me a pretty good idea of what I need to do. I have also inadvertently acquired an 8ba crank as well as a set of 8ba rods which as some stated before in this thread could be used in this engine. But the real reason I have all of a sudden gotten the itch to work on this engine was I got a 29 Model A roadster this past spring. I know many of you guys are into restoration not hot rods which I respect, but this car is not going to be "restored" per say, rather built into a traditional to the late 40s hotrod. I milled around with the idea of different powerplants but after awhile I decided it needed a flathead and what better engine than a merc flathead. Some of you guys may cringe at the thought but I'm sorry, thats the way its gotta be!

Sorry to bore you guys with my life story over here but I just figured it would be cool to revive this thread because there was some grade A info in here and I'm sure there will be more to come. I haven't done anything to the engine except move it around in the garage over the last year but that will soon change. I will get the four remaining pistons out and try removing the studs. I'll try to keep this updated by posting pics and asking questions when I get stumped. I can post a pic of the car up if anyone would like, I am refraining as of now because like I said, it isn't a restoration. Thanks guys,

Mike

[Bassman/NZ]

Nothing wrong with a 29 A with flattie. Mine is a 28 tudor with 47 engine. Keep posting man, we never get bored of anything flathead related because we're all inflicted with the "disease" ......

[rotorwrench]

There are several AV8 builders on this forum. The car build info would be more welcomed on the HAMB but the engine build is no problem on this site and questions about AV8s are posted frequently without too much turmoil since they usually contain many parts scrounged from the V8 era cars & trucks that a person may need information about.

[Pete]

I would say get the pistons and valves out but leave the sleeves in.
You are going to have the block bored so let them take the sleeves out by offset boring. Much quicker AND guaranteed no wall damage in the process.
An easy way to get the valves out is rent a plasma cutter and cut the valve head off, cut the spring and stem out and then just drive everything out with a punch. Takes about 2 minutes to get one out.

Edit:
I just noticed this is and old obsolete thread.
Oh well.......

[Ol' Ron]

I just took apart an old 8BA. Before I started I painted everything with 50/50 mix. Did this every morning for two weeks. I had a big braker arm on the crank. after two weeks it broke loose, after another day it spun freely, so it came apart with little effort.
If your not in a hurry, this is the way to go.