Restoration Goal

[Roadster62]

For those considering a TOTAL "as new" RESTORATION is your goal a car on the dealership floor or a car as it crossed the curb with its first owner?

[frankvflorida]

Neither really, I'm trying to match the "standards". How close I'll come to that in real life, I don't know.

[montanafordman]

I'd love to get mine to the point of: "had it for a few years with daily use, but well taken care of." As in 30's mentailty of "use" and "wear" not my antique car gets driven on dry, paved roads but polished every night mentality. I'm looking for mechanically sound and cosmetically pretty good and ready for some touring. I also want too keep or improve the originality of parts and appearance as much as my time, budget and skill set allows for now. This may still be a long way off from what some on here strive for but thats OK. I think I'm a few decades away from having the time and money to build the fine point show car that has ALL the correct original details and is perfect like it was just delivered to the dealership. There certainly are many aspects of this hobby to have fun with whether your goals are tinkering and driving the heck out of it or getting the perfect period correct paint sheen,correct floorboard washers and cotter pins, early spring shackle stampings and NOS tail light lenses.

[Modelakid31]

Someday when I have the shop tools and the money to restore one of these beauties to dealership quality, I'm going to restore one beyond like new and then drive it everyday as if I bought it new in 31. That is my model a goal.

[Terry, NJ]

My 30 T.S. is the first real restoration I've done and it's turning out to be a little more difficult and expensive than I originally expected. Am I cutting corners by using the running board configuration of another year? Purists would certainly think so. Am I taking cheap too far when I buy 1/2' S.S. bumper bolts from Lowes and make my own S.S. spacers from pipe and cut S.S. nuts in half for the bottom? I reckon I saved about $20 there! I got an old window from a postal jeep and the glass company charged me $5 to cut the last one (One cut), for the front drivers door window. Should I have paid $75 + shipping for that piece of glass for some aesthetic value? These projects get expensive , Fast! I am duplicating the wood frame for the same reasons, I'm cheap! And approximately $4000-5000 for a new wood frame in a place where it doesnt show rankles me. Plus the fact that the wood needs fitting anyhow. I did buy a top wood kit and the sills (about $1800). I dropped $6000 + grand on the new engine. So my cheapness doesn't extend into the stupid range. So I'm saving my cash for the upholstery, interior, windshield, interior, Save where you can I say!
Terry

[Huckster Dave]

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Just doing it to suit my needs, wants and happiness. It is mine and doing it my way.

[newshirt]

Originally Posted by Roadster62

...is your goal a car on the dealership floor or a car as it crossed the curb with its first owner?

What is the difference? I thought when the first owner drove it off the dealership curb, it was just like it was on the showroom floor a few hours earlier. Were there differences?

[VWJoe]

All my antique vehicle's (cars, motorcycles, & tractors) are restored to show quality but not over-restored to the point where you're afraid to drive them. I enjoy using and driving them. I'm proud of the fact that I can do anything from mechanical to electrical to body work and paint. If somone else can do it, then I can do it. Its just knowledge!! Vehicles were built to be used and not to set in a garage. Don't get me wrong, fine point cars are great whether its a Model "A" or any other make. I love them all. I respect the work & effort those guys go thru to get those vehicles to that level. I know it's alot. Not going to Pebble Beach any time soon. Well enough rambaling, back to work on the "29" !!!!.

Joe,,,,

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by newshirt

What is the difference? I thought when the first owner drove it off the dealership curb, it was just like it was on the showroom floor a few hours earlier. Were there differences?

It didn't necessarily have a spare tire when sitting in the showroom. You had to buy a tire for the spare wheel (rim) that came with the car. You could have bought the car then driven it a mile to a tire store to get it cheaper than the dealer price. The JS will nick you if it is without the OPTIONAL tire.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Bob, while I definitely am not nit-picking or trying to be a forum police since it is your thread, it sure is amazing that the poll was directed one way yet everyone else seems to be twisting it to be none of the options. Therefore, is your poll really gonna be that accurate? I personally would have been interested to know what everyone else was doing ...and my answer was more closely to Dealership Floor.

[MikeK]

Based on Brent's valid observation, I'd like to clarify my support for crossing the curb, not just "on the floor". A car on the showroom floor won't necessarily have keys in it, needed for JS, but you had them going over the curb. A car on the floor wasn't necessarily "prepped" mechanically, and may have a horn that is slightly mis-adjusted and imperfect ignition timing. Over the curb these things are assumed corrected, and the JS looks for horn sound and proper start and idle. Over the curb also assumes () you bought the fifth tire.

Looking at it another way, a particular showroom floor car may have had the finish on many items over prepped, not representative of the typical lot stock you bought and drove home.

Who knows, I wasn't there. Basically I like 'em to the JS, which seems to me more like crossing the curb.

[VWJoe]

Well I must have misunderstood this poll. To much dope I guess. You know how those old VW guys are. I took it as restoring cars to dealership floor looks (akin to a fine point car which it would be) or across the dealership curb (akin to a well taken care of driver). This was about restoring cars, right ??? The title did say restoration didn't it ???

Joe,,,, I think

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

.

Originally Posted by MikeK

Based on Brent's valid observation, I'd like to clarify my support for crossing the curb, not just "on the floor". A car on the showroom floor won't necessarily have keys in it, needed for JS, but you had them going over the curb. A car on the floor wasn't necessarily "prepped" mechanically, and may have a horn that is slightly mis-adjusted and imperfect ignition timing. Over the curb these things are assumed corrected, and the JS looks for horn sound and proper start and idle. Over the curb also assumes () you bought the fifth tire.

Looking at it another way, a particular showroom floor car may have had the finish on many items over prepped, not representative of the typical lot stock you bought and drove home.

Who knows, I wasn't there. Basically I like 'em to the JS, which seems to me more like crossing the curb.

Yeah, this may be getting more complicated/confusing. Let me add what I think my definition of what Bob is trying to ask and then he can come "clean-up" the definition to be what he wants.

Showroom Floor: The vehicle as it was delivered from the factory without any accessories or any deviation but with all fluids added, pre-delivery service performed, and ready to drive out the Showroom's door however prior to being sold.


Cross the Curb: The vehicle as it was delivered from the factory with all fluids added, pre-delivery service performed, but after the vehicle has been accessorized (Quails installed, luggage rack, moto-meters, clock mirrors, stone guards, "fox tails", etc.) , and customer-ordered changes made (side-mounts added, wheel colors changed, whitewalls, etc.) but after the New Car Owner has paid to individualize his new Ford.

In both definitions, either car was capable at that moment to be driven by the new owner. Therefore it was only how the vehicle was "individualized". Also, the only deviation I know that the Judging Standards prescribes necessary for a MARC/MAFCA adjudication that would have been different from how a passenger vehicle would be in the 'Showroom Floor' definition, would be the spare tire. Am I missing anything.


.

[hardtimes]

Mike,
'Who knows' and 'assumes'....how appropriate useage in this subject ! In my mind's eye when I look at my ugly duck (aka '30 roadster) I see a 'jewel' of an A !!
I love them all that I see here on the barn. But, I look at some and wonder about many of the things that you mention AND wonder if any original Model A ever came off of any dealership floor....that looked as pretty as some of the JS 'restored' Model As of today.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Chief & I admiring a fine restored black fourdor, Chief said, "The only thing wrong is that the cars didn't look that Primo when they were new!" Chief was good friends with Bill Ogan, owner of the small Ford dealership in our small hometown of Valliant, Oklahoma, and spent quite a bit of time at the dealership. The building still exists, built out of large river rocks, a one car showroom and a shop that held maybe 5 cars. Chief ran a Conoco gas station across the street in the mid '40's. He said the Model A fenders, splash shields and radiator splash shields were very smooth & shiny, but he said the bodies looked like he & I sprayed them in the driveway. I'm probably not makin' any points, but I don't care, that's what Chief told me. Chief wasn't perfect, but he didn't LIE! Bill W.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Chief & I admiring a fine restored black fourdor, Chief said, "The only thing wrong is that the cars didn't look that Primo when they were new!" Chief was good friends with Bill Ogan, owner of the small Ford dealership in our small hometown of Valliant, Oklahoma, and spent quite a bit of time at the dealership. The building still exists, built out of large river rocks, a one car showroom and a shop that held maybe 5 cars. Chief ran a Conoco gas station across the street in the mid '40's. He said the Model A fenders, splash shields and radiator splash shields were very smooth & shiny, but he said the bodies looked like he & I sprayed them in the driveway. I'm probably not makin' any points, but I don't care, that's what Chief told me. Chief wasn't perfect, but he didn't LIE! Bill W.

I agree "Chief" wasn't lying, however I am impressed that Chief's memory is good enough to remember exactly what the paint on those bodies looked like in exacting detail some 80 years ago. Factory pictures along with other records indicate that all bodies (--with exception of some Commercial styles) were Lacquer paint that was hand-rubbed. Personally, I have seen some awesome Lacquer paint jobs done in people's driveway's and backyards. Maybe old Chief was paying you & himself a compliment by saying you two could also turn out quality work just like that Fordor you two were admiring!!


.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Chief & I admiring a fine restored black fourdor, Chief said, "The only thing wrong is that the cars didn't look that Primo when they were new!" Chief was good friends with Bill Ogan, owner of the small Ford dealership in our small hometown of Valliant, Oklahoma, and spent quite a bit of time at the dealership. The building still exists, built out of large river rocks, a one car showroom and a shop that held maybe 5 cars. Chief ran a Conoco gas station across the street in the mid '40's. He said the Model A fenders, splash shields and radiator splash shields were very smooth & shiny, but he said the bodies looked like he & I sprayed them in the driveway. I'm probably not makin' any points, but I don't care, that's what Chief told me. Chief wasn't perfect, but he didn't LIE! Bill W.

Yep, they were downright ugly!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Brent,
Brent,Sorry, not trying to sound smart ass, he was refering to the first Model A's that were sold there, and maybe the paint was not up to snuff yet, and maybe he was referring to the commercial vehicles, like you said, were not buffed to a higher luster. Not trying to offend anyone. Bill W.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Brent,
Brent,Sorry, not trying to sound smart ass, he was refering to the first Model A's that were sold there, and maybe the paint was not up to snuff yet, and maybe he was referring to the commercial vehicles, like you said, were not buffed to a higher luster. Not trying to offend anyone. Bill W.

Bill, you didn't offend me nor do I feel your comment as being "smart". Since I was not a part of 'Chief' and your conversation, I do not know what he was referring to either, but if Chief remembers them that way, then I suppose that is OK too. As I elluded to above, at my age I have very few vivid memories of things that happened just 40 years ago, --and so I am very impressed that Chief has the ability to vividly remember detail items like this from 80 years ago. I think that is awesome!! I wish I had his ability.

[Frank Nemo]

Brent, for us older folks it isn't so hard to remember what happened 40 years and beyond. Remembering what I had for breakfast is what is giving me a bit of a problem right now!