The Ford Barn

pennington32 · 10-24-2016, 02:33 PM

OK here is the deal this model A rod has a 1941 ford front end and drum brakes the rear end is a 1984 Chevy s10 drum brake. it has a new 1 inch bore master cylinder ( corvet style ) new lines / new wheel cylinders / new brakes and hardware / also two 1 on each end 10lb residual check valve / non power systom / the master cylinder is lower then the wheel cylinders so the rear end was lifted higher then the cylinder and bleed many times / then the front was lifted many times and bleed / the brakes was adjusted tight just to where you can turn the tires but not freely. / the stroke of the master cylinder was checked to make sure it has full travel / cannot pressure bleed due to lack of room for the bleeder / but when you drive it you still have to pump it once to get good brakes in the drive way on the first application nothing will happen but the pedal goes to the floor on the second it will slide all 4 tires ??????? Please respond to my email address as I cannot check this site very often here is my email [email protected] THANK YOU Mike

Charlie Stephens · 10-24-2016, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennington32

OK here is the deal this model A rod has a 1941 ford front end and drum brakes the rear end is a 1984 Chevy s10 drum brake. it has a new 1 inch bore master cylinder ( corvet style ) new lines / new wheel cylinders / new brakes and hardware / also two 1 on each end 10lb residual check valve / non power systom / the master cylinder is lower then the wheel cylinders so the rear end was lifted higher then the cylinder and bleed many times / then the front was lifted many times and bleed / the brakes was adjusted tight just to where you can turn the tires but not freely. / the stroke of the master cylinder was checked to make sure it has full travel / cannot pressure bleed due to lack of room for the bleeder / but when you drive it you still have to pump it once to get good brakes in the drive way on the first application nothing will happen but the pedal goes to the floor on the second it will slide all 4 tires ??????? Please respond to my email address as I cannot check this site very often here is my email [email protected] THANK YOU Mike

Mike,
Sorry I cannot help with the technical problem but would like to make a suggestion. Don't request that people email you with the answer. It is important that the answers be posted in case someone makes a mistake it will be corrected before you go off in the wrong direction. Also by saying you "cannot check this site very often" you are saying the answer is not very important to you. If the answer is not very important to you, why would a person want to spend their time responding?

Charlie Stephens

Gary-UK · 10-24-2016, 03:34 PM

Master cylinder isn't moving enough fluid. Step up to a 1 1/8" and all will be good.

Lawson Cox · 10-24-2016, 05:02 PM

I second what Charlie Stephens said.

Jack E/NJ · 10-24-2016, 05:45 PM

>>>on the first application nothing will happen but the pedal goes to the floor >>>

I'll guess that you still gotta lot of air that's being pumped out of the M/C into the lines on the first application. Compressed air staying in the lines for a while. So good pedal for awhile too. But air eventually leaks back to the M/C to start the cycle all over again. Whatever bleeding process is being used ain't working.

Jack E/NJ

ford38v8 · 10-24-2016, 06:07 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Mike,
Sorry I cannot help with the technical problem but would like to make a suggestion. Don't request that people email you with the answer. It is important that the answers be posted in case someone makes a mistake it will be corrected before you go off in the wrong direction. Also by saying you "cannot check this site very often" you are saying the answer is not very important to you. If the answer is not very important to you, why would a person want to spend their time responding?

Charlie Stephens

Well said, Charlie.

Talkwrench · 10-24-2016, 07:41 PM

Did you bench bleed the master cylinder before installing it?
Also you have a lot of mis- matched parts going on .
Install speed bleeders and you will find it so much easier.

scooder · 10-25-2016, 07:31 AM

Why are you lifting axles higher than the master cylinder to bleed??
You already said the wheel cylinders are higher than the master cylinder, so why increase that difference??
And as above,did you bench bleed the master cylinder?
And your master cylinder is on the small side, this won't help matters.
Martin.

flat 39 · 10-25-2016, 09:02 AM

I would check the push rod and make sure the MC piston is moving as soon as the pedal moves.

deuce_roadster · 10-25-2016, 10:27 AM

Like scooder said, I think if you want air bubbles to move toward the MC you would position the car so the MC was higher then the wheels being bled (if possible).

A friend of mine who is an A&P uses a 10' piece of clear tubing on the bleeder (one at a time) and pumps fluid through to a container until it is pure fluid coming through. Some older airplanes have all kinds of turns and up and down places in the brake lines that can trap air. You might try that as well as other suggestions given.

Jack E/NJ · 10-25-2016, 10:41 AM

I sent this to Mike via email as requested so you guys can see and constructively criticize 8^) how I bleed systems, especially ones with new lines. Similar I think to what deuce mentioned above.

Mike>>>on the first application nothing will happen but the pedal goes to the floor >>>

Hi Mike---I'm gonna guess that you still gotta lot of air that's being pumped out of the M/C into the lines on the first application. So whatever bleeding process is being used ain't working too fast for you. To help speed things up a bit and to see what's going on, I usually rig an intravenous-like setup of brake fluid to the wheel cylinder being bled. I use long clear tygon tubing (from Home Depot or Lowes) between the wheel cylinder outlet and the IV bag (or in my case a plastic bottle full of brake fluid) so I can raise the IV bag or bottle high above BOTH the wheel cylinder and master cylinder. No need to raise the whole rear or front ends. Then slowly pump on the M/C (to avoid squirting) and hold for a second or so before releasing pedal, while keeping the M/C reservoir full. Till all the bubbles stop coming up the tygon tubing into the IV bag or bottle. As you'll see thru the clear tygon tubing, it takes a lot of pedal pumping to get all the air out of small-diameter tubing like in a brake line due to its high surface area. At times, the bubbles seem to very slowly inch their way forward then retreat a bit backward on releasing the pedal. Almost like 2 steps forward, half-step back. Eventually they'll stop coming. I usually don't bench bleed the M/C (on a bench) as some folks recommend since it can be a mess. Using the above IV process, is in effect, bench bleeding the M/C while it's on the car. The only disadvantage is that you have to manually keep re-filling the M/C reservoir while you're pumping away. Good luck---Jack E/NJ

10-24-2016, 02:33 PM	#1
pennington32 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Easton Kansas 66020 Posts: 191	need smart person on my brake problem OK here is the deal this model A rod has a 1941 ford front end and drum brakes the rear end is a 1984 Chevy s10 drum brake. it has a new 1 inch bore master cylinder ( corvet style ) new lines / new wheel cylinders / new brakes and hardware / also two 1 on each end 10lb residual check valve / non power systom / the master cylinder is lower then the wheel cylinders so the rear end was lifted higher then the cylinder and bleed many times / then the front was lifted many times and bleed / the brakes was adjusted tight just to where you can turn the tires but not freely. / the stroke of the master cylinder was checked to make sure it has full travel / cannot pressure bleed due to lack of room for the bleeder / but when you drive it you still have to pump it once to get good brakes in the drive way on the first application nothing will happen but the pedal goes to the floor on the second it will slide all 4 tires ??????? Please respond to my email address as I cannot check this site very often here is my email [email protected] THANK YOU Mike

10-24-2016, 03:34 PM	#3
Gary-UK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Parkgate, England Posts: 106	Re: need smart person on my brake problem Master cylinder isn't moving enough fluid. Step up to a 1 1/8" and all will be good.

10-24-2016, 05:02 PM	#4
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: need smart person on my brake problem I second what Charlie Stephens said. __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm".

10-24-2016, 05:45 PM	#5
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: need smart person on my brake problem >>>on the first application nothing will happen but the pedal goes to the floor >>> I'll guess that you still gotta lot of air that's being pumped out of the M/C into the lines on the first application. Compressed air staying in the lines for a while. So good pedal for awhile too. But air eventually leaks back to the M/C to start the cycle all over again. Whatever bleeding process is being used ain't working. Jack E/NJ

10-24-2016, 07:41 PM	#7
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: need smart person on my brake problem Did you bench bleed the master cylinder before installing it? Also you have a lot of mis- matched parts going on . Install speed bleeders and you will find it so much easier. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

10-25-2016, 07:31 AM	#8
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: need smart person on my brake problem Why are you lifting axles higher than the master cylinder to bleed?? You already said the wheel cylinders are higher than the master cylinder, so why increase that difference?? And as above,did you bench bleed the master cylinder? And your master cylinder is on the small side, this won't help matters. Martin.

10-25-2016, 09:02 AM	#9
flat 39 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Clermont FL Posts: 99	Re: need smart person on my brake problem I would check the push rod and make sure the MC piston is moving as soon as the pedal moves.

10-25-2016, 10:27 AM	#10
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: need smart person on my brake problem Like scooder said, I think if you want air bubbles to move toward the MC you would position the car so the MC was higher then the wheels being bled (if possible). A friend of mine who is an A&P uses a 10' piece of clear tubing on the bleeder (one at a time) and pumps fluid through to a container until it is pure fluid coming through. Some older airplanes have all kinds of turns and up and down places in the brake lines that can trap air. You might try that as well as other suggestions given.

10-25-2016, 10:41 AM	#11
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: need smart person on my brake problem I sent this to Mike via email as requested so you guys can see and constructively criticize 8^) how I bleed systems, especially ones with new lines. Similar I think to what deuce mentioned above. Mike>>>on the first application nothing will happen but the pedal goes to the floor >>> Hi Mike---I'm gonna guess that you still gotta lot of air that's being pumped out of the M/C into the lines on the first application. So whatever bleeding process is being used ain't working too fast for you. To help speed things up a bit and to see what's going on, I usually rig an intravenous-like setup of brake fluid to the wheel cylinder being bled. I use long clear tygon tubing (from Home Depot or Lowes) between the wheel cylinder outlet and the IV bag (or in my case a plastic bottle full of brake fluid) so I can raise the IV bag or bottle high above BOTH the wheel cylinder and master cylinder. No need to raise the whole rear or front ends. Then slowly pump on the M/C (to avoid squirting) and hold for a second or so before releasing pedal, while keeping the M/C reservoir full. Till all the bubbles stop coming up the tygon tubing into the IV bag or bottle. As you'll see thru the clear tygon tubing, it takes a lot of pedal pumping to get all the air out of small-diameter tubing like in a brake line due to its high surface area. At times, the bubbles seem to very slowly inch their way forward then retreat a bit backward on releasing the pedal. Almost like 2 steps forward, half-step back. Eventually they'll stop coming. I usually don't bench bleed the M/C (on a bench) as some folks recommend since it can be a mess. Using the above IV process, is in effect, bench bleeding the M/C while it's on the car. The only disadvantage is that you have to manually keep re-filling the M/C reservoir while you're pumping away. Good luck---Jack E/NJ