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Old 10-22-2018, 09:18 PM   #1
28PHAETONROY
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Default Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

Hello:
My driver side front bow iron broke near the fold joint. I believe I could have it TIGed by inserting a close-fitting steel plug inside and welding to that, but a second problem is that the filler material in the bow where the roof material tacks onto is crumbling. It is not filled with wood, but appears to be some sort of cementitious material. I have a new top on order, but I don't think this bow will hold staples for the top. It's crumbling too much.

The best thing seems to be to try to locate a front bow, complete. If I TIG up the old one, I'm not sure how to get the wood back in the socket in place of the cementitious material. I read a Ford Barn thread about inserting dampened wood strips with glue to fill the socket where it curves. I think I could do that with some more knowledge. Does anyone have a you tube description of that process? I saw Brent in 10 U C had some photos in the thread, which I didn't open, and now I can't locate them.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Roy
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

You could try inserting sections of wood to replace the stuff that is aged. Then you could tack off to it.
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:29 AM   #3
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

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Originally Posted by 28PHAETONROY View Post
Hello:
My driver side front bow iron broke near the fold joint. I believe I could have it TIGed by inserting a close-fitting steel plug inside and welding to that, but a second problem is that the filler material in the bow where the roof material tacks onto is crumbling. It is not filled with wood, but appears to be some sort of cementitious material. I have a new top on order, but I don't think this bow will hold staples for the top. It's crumbling too much.

The best thing seems to be to try to locate a front bow, complete. If I TIG up the old one, I'm not sure how to get the wood back in the socket in place of the cementitious material. I read a Ford Barn thread about inserting dampened wood strips with glue to fill the socket where it curves. I think I could do that with some more knowledge. Does anyone have a you tube description of that process? I saw Brent in 10 U C had some photos in the thread, which I didn't open, and now I can't locate them.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Roy
Roy, I got your PM and I will see what I can find. PM me your e-mail address.
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:03 AM   #4
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

There is an old thread here that describes using flexible plastic strips cut to size and tapped into the curvature of the top bow where the wood had rotted out. Unfortunately, I can't find that thread. Maybe someone else can find it? I made some plastic strips from an old plastic truck mud flap and it worked. I nailed a new top on our Phaeton last August and the plastic held nails well.

You will need to remove all the old filler material from you top bow first. If your top bow broke at the curve, it must be rusted to the point of being weak?
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Old 10-23-2018, 08:49 AM   #5
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to try to attach a few photos of the broken piece and the crumbling material. Never mind the photos - I will read up on how to do that.
Steve- the broken piece is down at the narrow end, about 4" from the bolt hole that connects to the top bow frame. I thought I would make a steel plug to fit inside the tubular part inside the break and get the tubular part TIG welded to the plug. I don't know if that will work or not because the metal is pretty thin where it broke. Possibly rusted from the inside out. I was waiting to try that after I see if I could insert wood(or plastic) strips in the curve of the iron.
Roy
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

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Will try photos again.
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

Roy, we just cut small pieces of wood strips and then steam them to make them limber during installation. We coat them with glue and press them in by hand and with a air gun. One of the things we have noted is when the metal is thin, it is easy to distort curved section of the top iron so that when the inserted tack wood dries, the top iron is not the correct shape.
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

Thanks Brent. What were you saying in another thread about sawing off the square end of the bow (&wood strips?) and then Tigging it back on? Was that to get the strip-ends even? Would that cut occur right at the bolt hole where the header bow ends?
Roy
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Old 10-23-2018, 05:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

Try Photo again[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 10-23-2018, 05:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

Broken tube near folding joint
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

I have several spare top irons pieces for the '28-29 phaeton, but I have no front top bow pieces. These really don't survive. I don't know why.

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Old 10-23-2018, 07:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

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I have several spare top irons pieces for the '28-29 phaeton, but I have no front top bow pieces. These really don't survive. I don't know why.

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It is the front that gets wet most often. Moisture can get into it from the front or underneath and once wet, it doesn't dry out again easily.
To the OP, as for a tacking material in cars here, they used Masonite, a dark brown composite board that was available at the time. I made several attempts to find a suitable way of filling the gap by mixing sawdust, fillers and glues. The problem is that it has to hold a staple or tack and yet be soft enough to put them in. I heard of one guy who used an exterior glue and sawdust but I couldn't get it right. You might if you experiment a little but STAY AWAY from any PVA glue - it will rust out your staples/tacks and any other steel in no time.
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

Jim-I think my bow is ok, but I haven't peeled all the top off yet to see. Is the tack wood and the wood in the curved part of your irons ok? I am considering replacing just the irons. Could you send me a few photos showing the condition of your irons, and PM me a price for a driver &a passenger pair?
Synchro- Masonite is a likely suspect for the material in my irons. It is tan colored and gritty. It has held the staples pretty well since, I think, the late 50's when the car was restored by my father-in-law. I tried to burn some of the crumbled mat'l that fell out and it wouldn't burn.

I looked at a friend's Briggs body roadster today, and he had the top installed and shipped on the bows from LeBarron Bonney about 3-4 yrs ago. It is not even a bow in the traditional sense. It is a header wood piece and a piece of heavy strap iron on each side bolted to the rear of the header and connecting to the rear section of the bow-frame. Very clean and simple, and nicely done. Does anyone know where LeBarron was getting those? I called them to see if they would sell the parts, but they said they don't do the installation on bows anymore. Does anyone know about that set up?
Roy
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:53 AM   #14
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

Here are photos of a roadster top bow set sold by Lebarron Bonney a few years back.
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File Type: jpg IMG_3109.jpg (27.6 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_3111.jpg (38.3 KB, 23 views)
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:32 AM   #15
28PHAETONROY
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

I think I found the above universal top bow set at Mike's. I guess a question I have is - Is the header piece across the front the same for a Roadster as a Phaeton?
Roy
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

Quote:
Originally Posted by 28PHAETONROY View Post
Jim-I think my bow is ok, but I haven't peeled all the top off yet to see. Is the tack wood and the wood in the curved part of your irons ok? I am considering replacing just the irons. Could you send me a few photos showing the condition of your irons, and PM me a price for a driver &a passenger pair?

<snip>

Roy
Roy, I have several metal pieces (no wood) for all of the top irons EXCEPT for this front one over the windshield. If you need any other metal pieces, let me know which ones and I will photograph them (what I have).
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:52 PM   #17
28PHAETONROY
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

Thanks Jim.

I got the iron off and cleaned out - that chalk-like material was IN THERE. Still considering what to do. I may be able to repair this one, but I'm not sure I'll trust it. I may order the kit just for the front bow and sell the rest.

Roy
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File Type: jpg IMG_3128.jpg (82.1 KB, 17 views)
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:59 AM   #18
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Default Re: Need Help -Front Irons & Bow for 28 Mod A Phaeton

In our country we have a business specializing in the repair and manufacture of hood irons.

In the early days more cars here were open than closed.

http://www.dfecustoms.com.au
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