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Old 10-26-2021, 02:38 PM   #1
drolston
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Default Busted Axle

This (first picture) break happened while loafing along at 35 mph. Just touched the throttle to catch up with traffic and "nothing". How is that possible?

Every time I take the '41 our I floor it in second gear, just to be sure that the secondaries get some fresh fuel through them. That practice must have fatigued this axle to the point where the next little stress broke it. I also have the habit of down shifting to second for engine braking prior to a stop or turn. That also may contribute to axle fatigue. I will adjust my driving habits to be a bit gentler on the equipment.

No luck in finding a qualified helper to help me with this repair so I will do it myself. Second picture is my Old-Guy assistance tools; a roll-around stool, LED flashlight, and battery powered impact wrench. Third and fourth pictures are el-cheapo hub puller tool. Worked like a charm with impact wrench doing the bolt twisting and me applying love taps with a ball peen.

Drums were, as expected, a little difficult to get off of the shoes, even with both top and bottom shoe adjustments retracted. Barner Tom T/Williamsburg helped me find a shop in the area with a lathe big enough to turn the little bit of ridge out of the drums. Thanks, Tom. Thanks also to Mart for the videos of this job on his '41 pickup, to refresh my memory on how this proceeds.

I will report back with some more pictures as the job progresses.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Axle broken 1.jpg (69.9 KB, 813 views)
File Type: jpg Old Guy Hepers.jpg (60.9 KB, 206 views)
File Type: jpg Hub puller back plate.jpg (46.5 KB, 203 views)
File Type: jpg Wheel Puller.jpg (73.0 KB, 777 views)
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Old 10-26-2021, 02:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: Busted Axle

Quote:
Originally Posted by drolston View Post
This (first picture) break happened while loafing along at 35 mph. Just touched the throttle to catch up with traffic and "nothing". How is that possible?

Every time I take the '41 our I floor it in second gear, just to be sure that the secondaries get some fresh fuel through them. That practice must have fatigued this axle to the point where the next little stress broke it. I also have the habit of down shifting to second for engine braking prior to a stop or turn. That also may contribute to axle fatigue. I will adjust my driving habits to be a bit gentler on the equipment.

No luck in finding a qualified helper to help me with this repair so I will do it myself. Second picture is my Old-Guy assistance tools; a roll-around stool, LED flashlight, and battery powered impact wrench. Third and fourth pictures are el-cheapo hub puller tool. Worked like a charm with impact wrench doing the bolt twisting and me applying love taps with a ball peen.

Drums were, as expected, a little difficult to get off of the shoes, even with both top and bottom shoe adjustments retracted. Barner Tom T/Williamsburg helped me find a shop in the area with a lathe big enough to turn the little bit of ridge out of the drums. Thanks, Tom. Thanks also to Mart for the videos of this job on his '41 pickup, to refresh my memory on how this proceeds.

I will report back with some more pictures as the job progresses.


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Old 10-26-2021, 09:51 PM   #3
Ray in La Mesa
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Default Re: Busted Axle

I had the same thing happen, pulled away from a stop sign w/o even touching the throttle and it snapped in the same place. Must have been abused sometime in it's life.
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Old 10-27-2021, 12:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Busted Axle

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Originally Posted by Ray in La Mesa View Post
I had the same thing happen, pulled away from a stop sign w/o even touching the throttle and it snapped in the same place. Must have been abused sometime in it's life.

Ray & drolston .....Guys- This is "THE" classic symptom, and eventually the end result of NOT TIGHTENING that BIG AXLE NUT to the proper ~205+ foot pounds of torque, or at least something very near to that figure. That kind of torque is needed to 'fix', or 'set' that hub taper & axle taper in such a fit that the hub and axle essentially become ONE....NO movement between the hub and axle can take place, to continually work the hub, key and axle all against one another, to the point of causing a crack to form. That is right where they always crack .....from running the big nut TOO loose at some time in the history of the axle.

In the first picture of drolston's broken axle STUB, you can see the end of the axle key (at 6:00 o'clock) at the break. Second picture shows a lucky-owner's axle, caught before the crack could fatigue to the point of failure. TIGHTEN those nuts, guys! DD








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Old 10-27-2021, 12:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: Busted Axle

drolston was the drum torqued correctly? I didn't see that you mentioned it wasn't. Tom is a wizard of good things.

Last edited by Tinker; 10-27-2021 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 10-27-2021, 12:54 AM   #6
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Well if he left the axle key out all would be good too. Right? You could also do the the same thing installing the axle key wrong.
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Old 10-27-2021, 02:00 AM   #7
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Default Re: Busted Axle

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Well if he left the axle key out all would be good too. Right? You could also do the the same thing installing the axle key wrong.
I have little doubt about Mr. Rolston's ability to properly install an axle key! DD
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Old 10-27-2021, 08:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: Busted Axle

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Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
I have little doubt about Mr. Rolston's ability to properly install an axle key! DD
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So, Mr Rolston mentioned in his previous post on this same subject that he doesn't do all of his own work!!
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Old 10-27-2021, 09:25 AM   #9
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Default Re: Busted Axle

I have always wondered why the recommended torque for v8's is 200 foot pounds and the model a's are 100. Same set up.
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Old 10-27-2021, 09:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Busted Axle

This has been mentioned before, but now's a good time to mention the drum retainers sold by Vern Tardel https://www.verntardel.com/store/p33...Retainers.html. Speedway has them for less money, too.
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Old 10-27-2021, 09:55 AM   #11
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Default Re: Busted Axle

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Originally Posted by mhsprecher View Post
This has been mentioned before, but now's a good time to mention the drum retainers sold by Vern Tardel https://www.verntardel.com/store/p33...Retainers.html. Speedway has them for less money, too.
Good point!! I've installed Speedway's drum retainers on early Ford's that have hydraulic brakes. They are designed to bolt to the two top wheel cylinder bolts by using slightly longer than original bolts. On my cars that still have mechanical brakes, there is no convenient way to attach drum retainers.
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Old 10-27-2021, 09:56 AM   #12
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Default Re: Busted Axle

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Originally Posted by Planojc View Post
I have always wondered why the recommended torque for v8's is 200 foot pounds and the model a's are 100. Same set up.
Lighter car, and way less HP and torque.

Again I mention not to try to pull the alxe nut up to 200 lbs in 1 pull. Take it half way, drive around the block and you will be surprised how much it loosened. I usually do this until it stops moving and then take it up to the final torque and then insert the cotter pin.
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Old 10-27-2021, 10:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: Busted Axle

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Lighter car, and way less HP and torque.

Again I mention not to try to pull the alxe nut up to 200 lbs in 1 pull. Take it half way, drive around the block and you will be surprised how much it loosened. I usually do this until it stops moving and then take it up to the final torque and then insert the cotter pin.
This is another good point on getting those axle nuts properly torqued. I've experienced the need to re torque axle nuts several times to finally get them set to the correct torque.
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Old 10-27-2021, 05:33 PM   #14
drolston
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Default Re: Busted Axle

Good comments from all.

Three years ago I had Doug Walker at Joe Smith Early Ford install 3.25 rear end gears. Those guys know their stuff but I checked torque on the axle nuts a few months after that and found both to be at or above 200 ft lb. Not saying what the situation may have been earlier in the life of the axle. And I regularly abused the axles with second gear throttle bursts and downshifting for engine braking.

I did not have drum retainers, but a pair just came from Speedway.
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Old 10-27-2021, 07:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: Busted Axle

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhsprecher View Post
This has been mentioned before, but now's a good time to mention the drum retainers sold by Vern Tardel https://www.verntardel.com/store/p33...Retainers.html. Speedway has them for less money, too.
I made a set to fit my 38 mechanical brakes. I drilled 2 holes in the backing plates to hold them

I also emery clothed the axle and then spun them with lapping compound to get a good seat between the drum and axle.
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Old 11-13-2021, 10:18 PM   #16
drolston
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Default Re: Busted Axle

Given the lack of knowledgeable helpers in this area, I decided to suspend my cardio Doc's limitations on lifting and take this axle replacement on my own. The last time I did this job was 60 years ago, and it took an afternoon. This time it has been spread over two weeks but I am nearing completion. It is down to bleeding the brakes and final tightening of the axle nuts. I will summarize some lessons (re)learned after the road test.

But in the mean time, I have a question: You know those grease fittings on the axle housing near the backing plates; Does grease that goes in those fittings get to the wheel bearings in the drum; Before I put the drums on, I gave them multiple pumps and nothing came out of the end of the bearing surface on the axle housing.
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Old 11-13-2021, 10:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: Busted Axle

Quote:
Originally Posted by drolston View Post
Given the lack of knowledgeable helpers in this area, I decided to suspend my cardio Doc's limitations on lifting and take this axle replacement on my own. The last time I did this job was 60 years ago, and it took an afternoon. This time it has been spread over two weeks but I am nearing completion. It is down to bleeding the brakes and final tightening of the axle nuts. I will summarize some lessons (re)learned after the road test.

But in the mean time, I have a question: You know those grease fittings on the axle housing near the backing plates; Does grease that goes in those fittings get to the wheel bearings in the drum; Before I put the drums on, I gave them multiple pumps and nothing came out of the end of the bearing surface on the axle housing.

DO NOT use those zerks. Play like they don't exist, as many have found all that extra grease on their brake shoes. This was such a BAD idea that Ford finally removed the zerks from the housing ends by at least 1940, which MIGHT indicate that you actually have '38 or '39 axle BELLS. You did say that the Joe Smith guys re-did your rear end for you a while back. DO NOT use those zerks! Glad you're getting it back together. DD

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Old 11-13-2021, 11:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: Busted Axle

From the pics I see that hub and axle probably had no more taper contact than 50% right from the start. No amount of tightening could have made it last any longer than it did.

It has been posted and discussed on many forums INCLUDING THIS ONE about lapping the hub to the axle to get 100% contact area. It has also been proven many times in lab tests that the axle will drive the load to rear end destruction before the taper will slip when installed with NO key if done this way.

And while we are near this subject, safety hubs might be mentioned. While the good, welded ring type have been out of production for some time and the clamp bracket type work ok for cars with hydraulic brakes that leaves the mechanical brake and vintage racing rear ends kind of out in the cold.
There would not be much of a market for the old welded ring
type but what with today's CNC machining capabilities I always hold out hope someone will start making them again.
They are quite simple to make, even in an old blacksmith shop with hand tools.
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Old 11-14-2021, 12:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: Busted Axle

My '41 fordor had grease fittings behind the backing plates also. I always gave them a shot occasionally. never had grease on the rear shoes.
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Old 11-14-2021, 01:34 AM   #20
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Default Re: Busted Axle

To Pete and V8COUPEMAN, you’ve made my day. I haven’t read two consecutive posts that made more sense in a dogs age.
To those who tend to skim past the advice of experts and tell instead of methods born of guesswork, I wish you continued luck with that.
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