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Old 02-25-2012, 11:46 AM   #21
John Stone
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
How high are the pistons above the block?
How thich is the compressed haed gasket?
How deep is the head counterbore?

Just trying to determine the available clearance.
Counterbore is .052
Gasket is .075
Did not measure the top of the pistons above the deck but I know it wasn't any more than normal around .035 or so.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

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I think you missed my post right before yours. The sleeve did not move.
Are all the sleeves 3/4"longer than the cylinder? If they are the builder didn't put them correctly. If it is only this cylinder, look closely at the top. Sometimes it is difficult to see a dropped sleeve. I say it is a dropped sleeve because you can see how the top was flexed at the sides where it broke and the top broke at a right angle to this pressure. Better look again.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:57 PM   #23
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

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Are all the sleeves 3/4"longer than the cylinder? If they are the builder didn't put them correctly. If it is only this cylinder, look closely at the top. Sometimes it is difficult to see a dropped sleeve. I say it is a dropped sleeve because you can see how the top was flexed at the sides where it broke and the top broke at a right angle to this pressure. Better look again.
I will just say that I can recognize a dropped sleeve. The sleeves are all too long. Why, I don't know. Never seen that before. Here are pictures. #2 had the broken piston. You will notice the cracks and those aren't all of them. I have rejected this block for rebuild. The owner said he had a couple of diamond blocks so will check them.
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

OK, I'm convinced. What do you think was in the rebuilders head when he put those in? He either didn't know how to install sleeves or didn't have a facing tool for the boring bar. If the only problem is the sleeves, they can be pulled up and pinned to work correctly. If the white marks are cracks I would look for a better block too.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:11 PM   #25
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

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I will just say that I can recognize a dropped sleeve. The sleeves are all too long. Why, I don't know. Never seen that before. Here are pictures. #2 had the broken piston. You will notice the cracks and those aren't all of them. I have rejected this block for rebuild. The owner said he had a couple of diamond blocks so will check them.
John,
Thanks for sharing as learning tool,eh
Curiosity: mabe the person who 'rebuilt' this engine didn't have the tools/equiment to step the bottom of the cylinder...isn't that process standard practice when installing sleeves?
With all those cracks (and more you say) was it an 'engine rebuilder' at all that did the work..to your knowledge? Just saying that I'm not a builder, but wouldn't start on a block with that cracked condition without repairs, etc...
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:11 PM   #26
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OK, I'm convinced. What do you think was in the rebuilders head when he put those in? He either didn't know how to install sleeves or didn't have a facing tool for the boring bar. If the only problem is the sleeves, they can be pulled up and pinned to work correctly. If the white marks are cracks I would look for a better block too.
Yep, the white marks are cracks but the worst one is about 4" long in the valve chamber.

When I install sleeves I leave a step at the bottom of the cylinder. Can't come down. I have seen sleeves that were had a pin thru the lower part of the cylinder that would also work. Don't trust the press fit theory.

I had another thought that the rod might be bent but just checked and it has no bend or twist. I do know the owner was going fast when it let go.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

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John,
Thanks for sharing as learning tool,eh
Curiosity: mabe the person who 'rebuilt' this engine didn't have the tools/equiment to step the bottom of the cylinder...isn't that process standard practice when installing sleeves?
With all those cracks (and more you say) was it an 'engine rebuilder' at all that did the work..to your knowledge? Just saying that I'm not a builder, but wouldn't start on a block with that cracked condition without repairs, etc...
The original builder had a shop in Colorado but is long gone. You are right, I reject blocks that look like that.
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Old 02-25-2012, 04:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

"I do know the owner was going fast when it let go. "

That's why it's never good to play "catch up". That's when things go wrong and it also greatly increases the chance of an accident.
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Old 02-25-2012, 06:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

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Yep, the white marks are cracks but the worst one is about 4" long in the valve chamber.

When I install sleeves I leave a step at the bottom of the cylinder. Can't come down. I have seen sleeves that were had a pin thru the lower part of the cylinder that would also work. Don't trust the press fit theory.

I had another thought that the rod might be bent but just checked and it has no bend or twist. I do know the owner was going fast when it let go.
That's the way I put sleeves in and if I find a customer has sleeves in like that I pin them with 1/4" bolts and loctite them in and grind them flush outside after boring the sleeve to size. This way the pin is almost invisible and keeps the sleeve in place.
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Old 03-18-2018, 10:22 PM   #30
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

Nothing like reviving an old thread, but if John Stone is watching, what was the outcome of all this?
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Old 03-19-2018, 11:27 AM   #31
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

You really gave me a challenge. Six years is a long time considering a year ago I had a bout with Viral Meningitis and was in intensive care. The old brain doesn't remember quite like it did after that little episode.

Did a search of my records and found the pictures and the name of the guy I did it for but that was about it. I would imagine we replaced the block since that one was cracked. Haven't heard anything since so must have been successful.

Working on a B engine right now but still having some health problems so taking it slow.
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Old 03-19-2018, 01:39 PM   #32
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Talking Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

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Nothing like reviving an old thread, but if John Stone is watching, what was the outcome of all this?
Tom,

You must really be snowed in if you're reviving a six year old thread!

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Old 03-20-2018, 01:05 PM   #33
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Default Re: This will ruin your day!!!!

https://www.flexglue.com/FLXGL/1.000...dtm?otsid=7952

How's about THIS stuff for a fix. Trust Phil!!
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