The Ford Barn

Bud · 08-15-2016, 09:58 PM

I am in the process of cutting down my Model B pan. I am taking the flywheel housing area off at the rear. I want to add a Model A flywheel housing and use my aluminum adapter to mate up with a '39 transmission. My questions are: how much do I take off the B oil pan and how do I alter the flywheel inspection cover? Yes, I know this is more modification related, but I know there are folks here that have done this. I have already posted this on the HAMB. I am just hoping to get several knowledgeable answers to lead me in the right direction. Thanks in advance for your help.
I am in the process of cutting down my Model B pan. I am taking the flywheel housing area off at the rear. I want to add a Model A flywheel housing and use my aluminum adapter to mate up with a '39 transmission. My questions are: how much do I take off the B oil pan and how do I alter the flywheel inspection cover?

Synchro909 · 08-15-2016, 10:28 PM

I've modified the rear of a B sump and don't remember doing anything to the flywheel inspection opening, just the cover to accommodate the larger rear main bearing cap. I removed all of the sheet metal flywheel housing, leaving only a strip about an inch wide on the sides and bottom of the sump - the strip that is spot welded on. I didn't want to drill out the spot welds and make holes in the sump.
Hope that helps.

hardtimes · 08-15-2016, 10:38 PM

Hey Bud,
x2 what Synchro909 said !
If you do not get satisfactory information, that you understand , here. If I get the chance tomorrow, I will take picture of a modified B pan that I have lying in the shed.
A lot of guys like pics...a thousand words or something to that affect. I know that I do

62pan · 08-16-2016, 08:39 AM

Save the rear piece you remove, Old28 on here is looking for one.

Bud · 08-16-2016, 11:22 AM

Hi Forever4,
I did this installation the first way that you mention. It sounds easy but what is never mentioned is the B flywheel housing is narrower than an A by 3/8". I had to fabricate new motor mounts. I went with the B Trans case, but putting in 39 gears was a chore, I got it done, but it was a struggle. The other item that is glossed over is that the starter is not in the same place, so the starter switch does not line up with the hole in the body for the pushrod.
I had to remove the block because of a needed crack repair, so I thought I would change it to the other conversion kit that allows using the A Flywheel housing, standard motor mounts, aluminum adaptor, and V8 Trans case. Live and learn.
Now I am thinking I will need to fabricate a new flywheel inspection cover to adapt to the size of the B end main. What did they do for the BB trucks in this area?
Thanks everyone for your input.

Bud · 08-16-2016, 11:28 AM

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Hi Forever4--I just looked at the images on your website. It does not appear that Ford used a Model A Flywheel housing. On Figure 12 there is an extra cast lip to go under the main bearing cap. This looks like a unique part. Be interesting to see a detail of this Flywheel Housing. Thanks Vince.

Bud · 08-16-2016, 11:36 AM

I will amend my above statement. The lip is there but does not go beneath the main bearing cap. I suspect there is a different flywheel inspection cover that they used in this application.

ursus · 08-16-2016, 12:05 PM

The Model A flywheel inspection cover can be modified to fit the Model B main bearing cap for use on a Model A flywheel housing. It will take a bit of grinding to enlarge the half-circle.

hardtimes · 08-16-2016, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ursus

The Model A flywheel inspection cover can be modified to fit the Model B main bearing cap for use on a Model A flywheel housing. It will take a bit of grinding to enlarge the half-circle.

Yup, that's exactly what I did. Very small amound of mod work

ursus · 08-16-2016, 04:57 PM

Very interesting, and something that I would probably never see at a swap meet or on Ebay. Forever4 continues to surprise us with details and treasures like this.

Bud · 08-17-2016, 11:21 AM

I take it that the new inside diameter is the same as the diameter on the B oil pan that goes up against the cork gasket on the main bearing? What inside diameter does the larger flywheel inspection cover measure to? Thanks, it will save me scaling it from the photo.

Bud · 08-17-2016, 11:35 AM

Also, pardon me for a lack of knowledge, but I cannot see any function of the flywheel inspection cover other than making the flywheel housing easier to assemble. If one removes the cover, there really is nothing behind it to "inspect", correct?

Bud · 08-17-2016, 07:56 PM

Rats! That's probably why my block cracked!

I am thinking the ID of the larger cover is the same diameter as the B pan because it probably goes up against the same area on the cap (correct me if I am wrong).

Bud · 08-17-2016, 09:54 PM

Thanks Vince for all the extra photos and postings. I measured my A inspection cover and it is 4.497" ID. I measured the diameter of the B pan at 5.035". I measured the B cap at 5.056". My estimate based on these measurements and your photos puts the ID of the BB Flywheel Inspection cover at 5.125" (approximately but I think will function well. As I look at an A motor I have on an engine stand, the flange of the inspection cover clears the main bearing and shoves against the edge of the cork gasket. If I have .030 bolt hole clearance it should mate up well.
Thanks again, this has really helped.
Now off to ask my brother who owns a sheet metal shop to modify my A inspection cover into a BB!

Did I say THANKS?!!

Bud · 07-08-2017, 07:53 PM

My brother passed on modifying the A inspection cover into the BB type. I also was rejected by a machine shop. Before I take this any further, would anyone have a flywheel inspection cover used on BB trucks (in Europe I believe) that had the Model B engine but utilized the shortened pan and Model A flywheel housing? If so I would be interested in purchasing it.
Thanks.

Charlie Stephens · 07-08-2017, 09:38 PM

Here is a picture of the strip a lot of people, myself included, said they left on the pan.

Charlie Stephens

joel rapose · 07-08-2017, 09:58 PM

Why not just use the model B bellhousing half ...never mind...I just remembered why...motor mounts..

Joel

john charlton · 07-09-2017, 05:27 AM

In England AA trucks were built into 1936 these were factory fitted B engines with the fully counterweighted crank . They had a B pan with no back shroud also a larger "C" inspection plate to suit the rear main bearing . The A flywheel housing bolts right up to the B block, the bolt pattern is the same. The A plate can be modified to fit by cutting slots in the inner flange and bending outwards . These larger inspection plates do show up here at swap meets ,If I see one I will buy it for you !!!

John in lovely sunny summers day Suffolk County England .

John in still a l

2manycars · 07-09-2017, 06:23 AM

My B engine had the pan cut just enough to clear the flywheel housing, and so did not need to use the inspection cover. The pan fit right against the flywheel housing.

Jim Brierley · 07-09-2017, 10:46 AM

I recommend grinding off the spot-welds to remove the rear piece, looks better than cutting it off and it can be re-used. Just trim the A dust shield to fit the B cap, not rocket science. e-mail me at jimb4e4@gmail and I'll send you the chapter of my book on putting a B engine into an A. or buy my book.

Bud · 07-10-2017, 11:10 AM

I have already cut the pan back away from the flywheel housing like Charlie Stephens photo, so the option of putting the pan right up against the FW housing, though a good idea, is no longer an option. John, thanks for keeping a lookout for the British/European cover. I would be interested in purchasing it from you. I can always change this part out later. I will perhaps modify my A cover or use some other means to seal up the gap. Thanks everyone!

08-15-2016, 09:58 PM	#1
Bud Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 819	Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing I am in the process of cutting down my Model B pan. I am taking the flywheel housing area off at the rear. I want to add a Model A flywheel housing and use my aluminum adapter to mate up with a '39 transmission. My questions are: how much do I take off the B oil pan and how do I alter the flywheel inspection cover? Yes, I know this is more modification related, but I know there are folks here that have done this. I have already posted this on the HAMB. I am just hoping to get several knowledgeable answers to lead me in the right direction. Thanks in advance for your help. I am in the process of cutting down my Model B pan. I am taking the flywheel housing area off at the rear. I want to add a Model A flywheel housing and use my aluminum adapter to mate up with a '39 transmission. My questions are: how much do I take off the B oil pan and how do I alter the flywheel inspection cover?

08-15-2016, 10:28 PM	#2
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing I've modified the rear of a B sump and don't remember doing anything to the flywheel inspection opening, just the cover to accommodate the larger rear main bearing cap. I removed all of the sheet metal flywheel housing, leaving only a strip about an inch wide on the sides and bottom of the sump - the strip that is spot welded on. I didn't want to drill out the spot welds and make holes in the sump. Hope that helps. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

08-15-2016, 10:38 PM	#3
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing Hey Bud, x2 what Synchro909 said ! If you do not get satisfactory information, that you understand , here. If I get the chance tomorrow, I will take picture of a modified B pan that I have lying in the shed. A lot of guys like pics...a thousand words or something to that affect. I know that I do

08-16-2016, 08:39 AM	#4
62pan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middletown Pa Posts: 391	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing Save the rear piece you remove, Old28 on here is looking for one.

08-16-2016, 11:22 AM	#5
Bud Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 819	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing Hi Forever4, I did this installation the first way that you mention. It sounds easy but what is never mentioned is the B flywheel housing is narrower than an A by 3/8". I had to fabricate new motor mounts. I went with the B Trans case, but putting in 39 gears was a chore, I got it done, but it was a struggle. The other item that is glossed over is that the starter is not in the same place, so the starter switch does not line up with the hole in the body for the pushrod. I had to remove the block because of a needed crack repair, so I thought I would change it to the other conversion kit that allows using the A Flywheel housing, standard motor mounts, aluminum adaptor, and V8 Trans case. Live and learn. Now I am thinking I will need to fabricate a new flywheel inspection cover to adapt to the size of the B end main. What did they do for the BB trucks in this area? Thanks everyone for your input.

08-16-2016, 11:28 AM	#6
Bud Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 819	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Hi Forever4--I just looked at the images on your website. It does not appear that Ford used a Model A Flywheel housing. On Figure 12 there is an extra cast lip to go under the main bearing cap. This looks like a unique part. Be interesting to see a detail of this Flywheel Housing. Thanks Vince.

08-16-2016, 11:36 AM	#7
Bud Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 819	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing I will amend my above statement. The lip is there but does not go beneath the main bearing cap. I suspect there is a different flywheel inspection cover that they used in this application.

08-16-2016, 12:05 PM	#8
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,375	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing The Model A flywheel inspection cover can be modified to fit the Model B main bearing cap for use on a Model A flywheel housing. It will take a bit of grinding to enlarge the half-circle.

08-16-2016, 04:57 PM	#10
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,375	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing Very interesting, and something that I would probably never see at a swap meet or on Ebay. Forever4 continues to surprise us with details and treasures like this.

08-17-2016, 11:21 AM	#11
Bud Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 819	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing I take it that the new inside diameter is the same as the diameter on the B oil pan that goes up against the cork gasket on the main bearing? What inside diameter does the larger flywheel inspection cover measure to? Thanks, it will save me scaling it from the photo.

08-17-2016, 11:35 AM	#12
Bud Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 819	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing Also, pardon me for a lack of knowledge, but I cannot see any function of the flywheel inspection cover other than making the flywheel housing easier to assemble. If one removes the cover, there really is nothing behind it to "inspect", correct?

08-17-2016, 07:56 PM	#13
Bud Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 819	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing Rats! That's probably why my block cracked! I am thinking the ID of the larger cover is the same diameter as the B pan because it probably goes up against the same area on the cap (correct me if I am wrong).

08-17-2016, 09:54 PM	#14
Bud Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 819	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing Thanks Vince for all the extra photos and postings. I measured my A inspection cover and it is 4.497" ID. I measured the diameter of the B pan at 5.035". I measured the B cap at 5.056". My estimate based on these measurements and your photos puts the ID of the BB Flywheel Inspection cover at 5.125" (approximately but I think will function well. As I look at an A motor I have on an engine stand, the flange of the inspection cover clears the main bearing and shoves against the edge of the cork gasket. If I have .030 bolt hole clearance it should mate up well. Thanks again, this has really helped. Now off to ask my brother who owns a sheet metal shop to modify my A inspection cover into a BB! Did I say THANKS?!!

07-08-2017, 07:53 PM	#15
Bud Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 819	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing My brother passed on modifying the A inspection cover into the BB type. I also was rejected by a machine shop. Before I take this any further, would anyone have a flywheel inspection cover used on BB trucks (in Europe I believe) that had the Model B engine but utilized the shortened pan and Model A flywheel housing? If so I would be interested in purchasing it. Thanks.

07-08-2017, 09:58 PM	#17
joel rapose Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Chester Kalifornia Posts: 41	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing Why not just use the model B bellhousing half ...never mind...I just remembered why...motor mounts.. Joel Last edited by joel rapose; 07-08-2017 at 10:06 PM.

07-09-2017, 05:27 AM	#18
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing In England AA trucks were built into 1936 these were factory fitted B engines with the fully counterweighted crank . They had a B pan with no back shroud also a larger "C" inspection plate to suit the rear main bearing . The A flywheel housing bolts right up to the B block, the bolt pattern is the same. The A plate can be modified to fit by cutting slots in the inner flange and bending outwards . These larger inspection plates do show up here at swap meets ,If I see one I will buy it for you !!! John in lovely sunny summers day Suffolk County England . John in still a l

07-09-2017, 06:23 AM	#19
2manycars Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern CT Posts: 2,732	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing My B engine had the pan cut just enough to clear the flywheel housing, and so did not need to use the inspection cover. The pan fit right against the flywheel housing. __________________ Bill www.brauchauto.com

07-09-2017, 10:46 AM	#20
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,088	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing I recommend grinding off the spot-welds to remove the rear piece, looks better than cutting it off and it can be re-used. Just trim the A dust shield to fit the B cap, not rocket science. e-mail me at jimb4e4@gmail and I'll send you the chapter of my book on putting a B engine into an A. or buy my book.

07-10-2017, 11:10 AM	#21
Bud Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 819	Re: Cut down Model B Oil Pan & A Flywheel Housing I have already cut the pan back away from the flywheel housing like Charlie Stephens photo, so the option of putting the pan right up against the FW housing, though a good idea, is no longer an option. John, thanks for keeping a lookout for the British/European cover. I would be interested in purchasing it from you. I can always change this part out later. I will perhaps modify my A cover or use some other means to seal up the gap. Thanks everyone!