Cranking too fast to start

[Kurt in NJ]

I went to go for a drive, 2 times of10 seconds of cranking it wouldn't start, put it in gear to use the starter to crank it out of the garage into the light --1/2 the way out of the garage it fired --back in neutral---crank--crank no start, back in gear, crank out of the garage, 3/4 the way out it fired, pushed in the clutch quick it kept running ---drove out to the street, got 100 feet up the street it stopped ---crank--crank no start, put in gear foot off clutch and crank, starts up, go for ride around the block, runs normal,restarts normal, go for 5 mile ride, drives normal, park car ---1 week later ---crank crank crank no start, put in gear, crank--starts up instantly ----I guess I need to change my starting procedures---still havn't opened the hood to look for a reason, it runs normal once it starts.
I have been wondering how long the battery will last(14 years), it seems to be getting stronger, it not like I ever charge it other than driving ---I wouldn't think the lower voltage of cranking in gear moving the car would improve spark ---perhaps the valve stick some and they don't seat when cranking fast ---next week I will try hand cranking it first

What do you think could cause a no start with fast cranking, and then start with the very slow cranking of moving the car with the starter??

[richard crow]

check the timing that,s way the model a has a timing pin screwed in the cover

[Jon]

I'm thinking the starter is pulling the battery down too far and you're not getting a healthy spark to light it off.

[MikeK]

OK, here's a wild shot: The carb may have a performance 'flat spot' in the idle jet/ circuit. At slow crank, very low vacuum it may be pulling a startable 12-14:1 mixture. It obviously pulls a run-able A:F ratio after starting while idling, when the vacuum goes way up. But, at faster crank with a medium vac it may be passing an unstartable air-fuel ratio. Swap a known good carb off another running A and see what happens. Just don't get it wet or feed it after midnight.

[Gary WA]

If the battery is 14years old!!! Time for a new one for better spark.

[Popeye31]

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change the spark plugs.

[Jon]

I was half asleep, thought he meant pushing it, popped the clutch and starts. I'm going to bed now.

[Jordan]

Change the rear end oil that may help lol JK probably like you said, might be a sticking valve

[RichPA]

Maybe the choke isn't closing and some gas is spitting out of the main jet when the car is in motion?W.A.G.

[marc hildebrant]

12 volt or 6 volt system ?

Marc

[roccaas]

OK, I had this same problem several years ago. Tried everything I could think of to get good starting with the car out of gear, all to no avail.

Whilst perusing various information I read an article about making sure your coil was wired correctly so you would get higher voltage to the plugs. Checked the coil and it was in fact wired backwards (but the car didn't drive badly).

Reversed the wires into the coil, car still ran fine, but I didn't have to start in gear anymore.

I can think of NO reason why this could possibly cause the starting problem; but it's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[ctlikon0712]

Could a weak condenser be the cause? Not enough juice to start at the faster cranking speed (saturation) but it does when slowed in gear? Of course when its running the starter circuit isn't engaged so its drain is no longer an issue......
Just a thought. You know what they say 9 times out of 10 when you have a carburetor problem it's the distributor! lol

[Tom Wesenberg]

Pull the coil wire and check for spark to a head nut while cranking. Points???

[PC/SR]

Check all ground connections including the distributor body in the head for rust or corrosion. Maybe something moves or shifts when cranking in gear?

[Christoph]

"The average" gets probs due to : No fuel in tank.

As Kurt is a pro/guru himself, the tasks grow samewhot complicated.
(due to murphys law)

For sure its not a prob of the battery.

I vote for MikeK !!!

BUT

As Tom allways hits the nail, you might try his suggestions first

interesting one - im willing to learn
Greetings
Christoph

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I'm only an ASSISTANT GURU, so I won't EVEN guess at this one, weird?????????????? Bill W.

[Will N]

Question for the electrical engineers out there: would the starter draw more amperage when it's turning slower but under heavy load (like when it's moving the entire car while it is in gear) or when it's allowed to turn faster under less load (like when it's spinning the engine only)?

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Will N

Question for the electrical engineers out there: would the starter draw more amperage when it's turning slower but under heavy load (like when it's moving the entire car while it is in gear) or when it's allowed to turn faster under less load (like when it's spinning the engine only)?

As the starter armature turns, it generates it's own electrical force, in the opposite direction of the electrons from the battery. This is called 'reverse EMF'. At slow speed there is little reverse EMF, the starter draws max amps. At high rpm the reverse EMF is greater, the battery amp draw is less.

[Kurt in NJ]

It has a fat blue spark jumping a 3/8 -1/2" gap---don't even need to see it, can hear it inside the car---tried the add some gap to the secondary system as a starting aid for fowled plugs ---didn't make a difference in starting

Voltage drop between dist housing and pos batt terminal --0.2V
The timing is good---still goes over 60 ---other than for the starting it runs the same as the last 25 years

Using the choke--or not using the choke didn't make it start just cranking, when cranking in gear I wasn't using the choke.

The rear end oil is full ---I just drained the xtra out, filled the trans.

Took a look at a plug ---burning a light brown, slight wiff of fuel, but no wetness

It is an interesting problem, I havn't spent much time looking yet-- after all it does start without getting out of the car, when it's cranking fast it doesn't sound like it has lost compression ---the speed is even both ways, whatever it is affects all cyls the same.

Neither the idle mixture,or idle speed screws have been changed recently.

I am thinking of trying to see if there is a difference between hand cranking compression, and fast spinning starter compression, and in gear cranking compression, but that will have to wait untill next weekend unless I get out to my other place before then for the tools-----once the car is running there are no signs of a compression problem, it will pull in 3rd from 5 mph and run up to over 60

[Dave72dt]

Weak spring on the points?