The Ford Barn

indyhac · 08-17-2017, 05:19 PM

I've got a 54 (Merc) 256 c.i. that runs cool (160 degrees) above 40 MPH but 190-200 traveling 20 MPH or less. Here is what I've done in more or less chronological order. 1. Had the radiator re-cored with 4-row core. 2. Added 6-blade fan. 3. Rebuilt the engine. 4. tried 180 & 160 thermostats; just lowered temps about 10 degrees with 160 thermostat on low end but not on high end. 5. added electric fan at radiator. 6. Cut out 6" hole on L.H. side of radiator support to let more air into engine compartment. 7. Cut 8" hole in L.H. inner fender and mounted electric fan to exhaust hot air from engine compartment.
Maybe I should try to find a high capacity water pump? I'm on my second stock pump. Any other suggestions? Scott

paul2748 · 08-17-2017, 10:09 PM

Cutting holes in the side supports is the wrong way to do it. You have to get the air going through the radiator and the holes you cut diverts the incoming air away from the radiator. The outside panels surrounding the radiator are designed to funnel air into the radiator

Have you tried a shroud? The correct shroud covers the entire radiator core and only has a hole for the fan so the fan draws air from the entire surface of the radiator.

In reality, 190 - 200 degrees is not bad at slow speeds, assuming there is a fairly quick recovery when speed is increased.. If your not boiling over, you are ok.

Another problem with YBlocks is the wrong installation of head gaskets. If not installed correctly, certain water passages are blocked resulting in hot running engines. They may look correct when installing, but can be installed incorrectly.

You might try a smaller water pump pulley - this will increase flow at lower speeds when the rev's are not high. You can't go real small because of the higher rpms at speed, but one slightly smaller should help at lower rpm's.

Sid · 08-17-2017, 10:55 PM

You may check the temp. with a infrared gun when you see temp. rise.Check the cyl. heads front and back,shoot the water pump,thermostat housing and the lower rad. hose. The lower hose should be somewhere around 130 deg. while running a 160 stat. You may just have a sender starting to fail.

dmsfrr · 08-17-2017, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul2748

Cutting holes in the side supports is the wrong way to do it. You have to get the air going through the radiator and the holes you cut diverts the incoming air away from the radiator. The outside panels surrounding the radiator are designed to funnel air into the radiator

Have you tried a shroud? The correct shroud covers the entire radiator core and only has a hole for the fan so the fan draws air from the entire surface of the radiator.

In reality, 190 - 200 degrees is not bad at slow speeds, assuming there is a fairly quick recovery when speed is increased.. If your not boiling over, you are ok.

Another problem with YBlocks is the wrong installation of head gaskets. If not installed correctly, certain water passages are blocked resulting in hot running engines. They may look correct when installing, but can be installed incorrectly.

You might try a smaller water pump pulley - this will increase flow at lower speeds when the rev's are not high. You can't go real small because of the higher rpms at speed, but one slightly smaller should help at lower rpm's.

Times 2

Here's how to check on the head gaskets. The 90* corner of both head gaskets should stick out at the top front.
.

Daves55Sedan · 08-17-2017, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indyhac

Cut out 6" hole on L.H. side of radiator support to let more air into engine compartment. 7. Cut 8" hole in L.H. inner fender and mounted electric fan to exhaust hot air from engine compartment.

Doing all this decreases the amount of air going thru the radiator fins. I strongly recommend closing those holes back up the way they were originally.
If the 54 Merc originally had the cooling panels at the bottom front of the frame around the engine and they are missing now, I suggest trying to find those and install them. Most people think those are just splash pans, but they also serve the same purpose as a fan shroud.

Did you guys rod out the engine cooling system passages when the engine was dismantled and flush out all the rust flakes out thru the freeze plugs? What about the cooling passages in the heads? Are they clear?

willowbilly3 · 08-18-2017, 05:08 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

You did all that because it runs 200? My rule of thumb is this; if the coolant stays in it, you don't have a heating problem

justold · 08-18-2017, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indyhac

I've got a 54 (Merc) 256 c.i. that runs cool (160 degrees) above 40 MPH but 190-200 traveling 20 MPH or less. Here is what I've done in more or less chronological order. 1. Had the radiator re-cored with 4-row core. 2. Added 6-blade fan. 3. Rebuilt the engine. 4. tried 180 & 160 thermostats; just lowered temps about 10 degrees with 160 thermostat on low end but not on high end. 5. added electric fan at radiator. 6. Cut out 6" hole on L.H. side of radiator support to let more air into engine compartment. 7. Cut 8" hole in L.H. inner fender and mounted electric fan to exhaust hot air from engine compartment.
Maybe I should try to find a high capacity water pump? I'm on my second stock pump. Any other suggestions? Scott

Heating at low speed is normally an air flow problem . Also what mix of antifreeze are you using . Over a 50/50 mix can cause you to run warm .

Ford Freak · 08-18-2017, 03:36 PM

Check your ignition timing .........

paul2748 · 08-18-2017, 08:17 PM

Ford Freak is correct. YBlocks generally run better around 10-12 degrees initial advance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford Freak

Check your ignition timing .........

Johnnydidd · 08-19-2017, 08:58 AM

where are you picking up your temp, at back corner of the left head or on the manifold?
Have you tried partially blocking off the by pass, I have a 5/16 hole in my block plate, As mentioned above a 5 inch pulley will help circulate at low speeds.

jimvette59 · 08-19-2017, 09:29 AM

Running a lean mixture will run hotter. Close of all those holes and check those head gaskets as has been said. JMHO

dmsfrr · 08-19-2017, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indyhac

I've got a 54 (Merc) 256 c.i. that runs cool (160 degrees) above 40 MPH but 190-200 traveling 20 MPH or less. .....
Scott

Just double checking...
Are you using a hand-held infrared temp sensor for the readings you mentioned, or something else?
.

Six volt · 08-19-2017, 09:03 PM

Just as paul2748 mentioned set the initial timing there, then hook up the vacuum canister, if so equipped, make sure the canister is working properly to further advance timing at idle, check with a timing light, you might have to ad a degree tape to the damper in order to veiw your full idle timing (initial & vacuum). Sorry I can't tell you what that number should be exactly but I'm thinking in the neighborhood of around 22-24* at idle speed.
As long as your radiator cap is good and developing the stated pressure your engine should be fine at 200 degrees. Sometimes 4row radiators are packed so tightly that air has a hard time passing thru between the tubes, just saying. It's a must to direct as much air to go through the radiator as you can. I had a overheating problem a few years back with a different make vehicle, except mine wanted to creep up over 230 and it scared me into researching causes and remedies, after some experimenting and making changes the problem got corrected, timing was a big factor.

indyhac · 11-23-2017, 12:23 AM

DMFSRR,
I am using an aftermarket gauge with it's sensor installed in the same location in the engine as the original factory temp gauge.

Scott

dmsfrr · 11-23-2017, 01:34 AM

Just making sure you weren't relying on an oem gauge, they aren't very accurate.
Have you tried a thermostat with a larger opening?

I can't offer any better suggestions than others have above, my y-block car is on jack stands.

Crankster · 11-23-2017, 01:37 AM

160° Thermostats are a legacy of alcohol based antifreeze, and wouldn't prevent overheating in any case. Thermostat sets the floor, not the ceiling, of engine temperature, it will open and close as required to maintain the minimum temperature it is rated for, within a certain tolerance. But if there's a problem in the radiator, or inside the engine cooling jackets, it will still overheat. 200° to 210° is right in there where you want to be, engine wear is next to nothing, contaminates are boiled off in the oil, fuel efficiency is better - and the heater works too. Research by GM or somebody in the 50s found that engine wear is cut in half by using a 180° vs. 160° thermostat.

estout81 · 11-23-2017, 11:12 AM

indyhac,
I had a '54 Merc years ago with '59 292 that never ran hot. Bought a '51 Ford a couple years ago that did just what your Merc is doing. It had an after market electric fan, shroud and six blade fan. Wouldn't hold a piece of paper against rad. at idle! Took off all after market JUNK and replaced with stock FORD fan and guess what? Problem solved! Will hold a piece of paper against rad. at idle now!
E Stout

08-17-2017, 05:19 PM	#1
indyhac Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 35	54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still I've got a 54 (Merc) 256 c.i. that runs cool (160 degrees) above 40 MPH but 190-200 traveling 20 MPH or less. Here is what I've done in more or less chronological order. 1. Had the radiator re-cored with 4-row core. 2. Added 6-blade fan. 3. Rebuilt the engine. 4. tried 180 & 160 thermostats; just lowered temps about 10 degrees with 160 thermostat on low end but not on high end. 5. added electric fan at radiator. 6. Cut out 6" hole on L.H. side of radiator support to let more air into engine compartment. 7. Cut 8" hole in L.H. inner fender and mounted electric fan to exhaust hot air from engine compartment. Maybe I should try to find a high capacity water pump? I'm on my second stock pump. Any other suggestions? Scott

08-17-2017, 10:09 PM	#2
paul2748 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Midland Park, NJ Posts: 3,981	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still Cutting holes in the side supports is the wrong way to do it. You have to get the air going through the radiator and the holes you cut diverts the incoming air away from the radiator. The outside panels surrounding the radiator are designed to funnel air into the radiator Have you tried a shroud? The correct shroud covers the entire radiator core and only has a hole for the fan so the fan draws air from the entire surface of the radiator. In reality, 190 - 200 degrees is not bad at slow speeds, assuming there is a fairly quick recovery when speed is increased.. If your not boiling over, you are ok. Another problem with YBlocks is the wrong installation of head gaskets. If not installed correctly, certain water passages are blocked resulting in hot running engines. They may look correct when installing, but can be installed incorrectly. You might try a smaller water pump pulley - this will increase flow at lower speeds when the rev's are not high. You can't go real small because of the higher rpms at speed, but one slightly smaller should help at lower rpm's. __________________ 48 Ford Conv 56 Tbird 54 Ford Victoria Last edited by paul2748; 08-17-2017 at 10:19 PM.

08-17-2017, 10:55 PM	#3
Sid Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rathdrum Idaho Posts: 737	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still You may check the temp. with a infrared gun when you see temp. rise.Check the cyl. heads front and back,shoot the water pump,thermostat housing and the lower rad. hose. The lower hose should be somewhere around 130 deg. while running a 160 stat. You may just have a sender starting to fail.

08-18-2017, 05:08 AM	#6
willowbilly3 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Black Hills, SD Posts: 577	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) You did all that because it runs 200? My rule of thumb is this; if the coolant stays in it, you don't have a heating problem

08-18-2017, 03:36 PM	#8
Ford Freak Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Pittsford NY. USA Posts: 1,096	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still Check your ignition timing .........

08-19-2017, 08:58 AM	#10
Johnnydidd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Overland Park, Ks Posts: 559	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still where are you picking up your temp, at back corner of the left head or on the manifold? Have you tried partially blocking off the by pass, I have a 5/16 hole in my block plate, As mentioned above a 5 inch pulley will help circulate at low speeds. Last edited by Johnnydidd; 08-19-2017 at 09:05 AM.

08-19-2017, 09:29 AM	#11
jimvette59 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Perry OH Posts: 1,330	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still Running a lean mixture will run hotter. Close of all those holes and check those head gaskets as has been said. JMHO

08-19-2017, 09:03 PM	#13
Six volt Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 42	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still Just as paul2748 mentioned set the initial timing there, then hook up the vacuum canister, if so equipped, make sure the canister is working properly to further advance timing at idle, check with a timing light, you might have to ad a degree tape to the damper in order to veiw your full idle timing (initial & vacuum). Sorry I can't tell you what that number should be exactly but I'm thinking in the neighborhood of around 22-24* at idle speed. As long as your radiator cap is good and developing the stated pressure your engine should be fine at 200 degrees. Sometimes 4row radiators are packed so tightly that air has a hard time passing thru between the tubes, just saying. It's a must to direct as much air to go through the radiator as you can. I had a overheating problem a few years back with a different make vehicle, except mine wanted to creep up over 230 and it scared me into researching causes and remedies, after some experimenting and making changes the problem got corrected, timing was a big factor.

11-23-2017, 12:23 AM	#14
indyhac Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 35	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still DMFSRR, I am using an aftermarket gauge with it's sensor installed in the same location in the engine as the original factory temp gauge. Scott

11-23-2017, 01:34 AM	#15
dmsfrr Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Abq, NM Posts: 3,607	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still Just making sure you weren't relying on an oem gauge, they aren't very accurate. Have you tried a thermostat with a larger opening? I can't offer any better suggestions than others have above, my y-block car is on jack stands.

11-23-2017, 01:37 AM	#16
Crankster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 563	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still 160° Thermostats are a legacy of alcohol based antifreeze, and wouldn't prevent overheating in any case. Thermostat sets the floor, not the ceiling, of engine temperature, it will open and close as required to maintain the minimum temperature it is rated for, within a certain tolerance. But if there's a problem in the radiator, or inside the engine cooling jackets, it will still overheat. 200° to 210° is right in there where you want to be, engine wear is next to nothing, contaminates are boiled off in the oil, fuel efficiency is better - and the heater works too. Research by GM or somebody in the 50s found that engine wear is cut in half by using a 180° vs. 160° thermostat.

11-23-2017, 11:12 AM	#17
estout81 BANNED Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Utica, Ohio Posts: 522	Re: 54 runs hot at low RPM or sitting still indyhac, I had a '54 Merc years ago with '59 292 that never ran hot. Bought a '51 Ford a couple years ago that did just what your Merc is doing. It had an after market electric fan, shroud and six blade fan. Wouldn't hold a piece of paper against rad. at idle! Took off all after market JUNK and replaced with stock FORD fan and guess what? Problem solved! Will hold a piece of paper against rad. at idle now! E Stout