The Ford Barn

roughrider · 01-31-2011, 08:33 AM

Yes, while replacing the head,broke the water outlet (paper gasket) on a 31 coupe. Are there any of the repro outlets to avoid? She been asleep since 1966, it's time to wake up!
Also the one on it was 5 3/8 tall, the catalogs prescribe a 6 inch, does it matter?
Thanks.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 01-31-2011, 09:12 AM

Likely the original water outlet and/or the head was slightly warped causing the breakage. I recommend purchasing an original over the reproduction due to the quality. I would try Steve Becker at www.modelastore.com for an original one. Yes, the length matters.

.

Dave in MN · 01-31-2011, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roughrider

Yes, while replacing the head,broke the water outlet (paper gasket) on a 31 coupe. Are there any of the repro outlets to avoid? She been asleep since 1966, it's time to wake up!
Also the one on it was 5 3/8 tall, the catalogs prescribe a 6 inch, does it matter?
Thanks.

My experience...the reproductions work...if you do not have a fine point car.
If you do not have a fine point car, try installing the new outlet with clear RTV silicone and leave the gasket out. I have been doing this for a couple years now and have not broken any since leaving the gaskets on the bench.

Good Day!
Dave in MN

steve s · 01-31-2011, 09:47 AM

The 28-29 outlet was shorter; sounds like that may be what you had. Slight misalignment with the radiator inlet neck could stress solder connections. They take different length rubber connection hose too.

Here are pictures of the two outlets. The 28-29 has been tapped for hot water heater.

Steve

Glenn C. · 01-31-2011, 10:42 AM

Lap the water outlet surface on a piece of plate glass, or a chunk of granite for a true surface, with a sheet of wet/dry emery clothand solvent, to obtain a flat surface. Polymer sealer and no gasket. Make sure the mating surface of the head is perfectly clean with no old gasket reminents.

fritznbud · 01-31-2011, 11:33 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by steve s

The 28-29 outlet was shorter; sounds like that may be what you had. Slight misalignment with the radiator inlet neck could stress solder connections. They take different length rubber connection hose too.

Here are pictures of the two outlets. The 28-29 has been tapped for hot water heater.

Steve

Thanks Steve, You answered my question too about the hoses being different lengths. No wonder my new oriental hoses had to be cut to fit, and i cant cut a straight line so they look "real" nice. As nice as my "original" clamps that are placed over real ones for looks.

roughrider · 02-01-2011, 08:22 AM

Thanks for the replies! I had lapped the broken neck first on a flat machined surface and cleaned the head (it looked flat, but I realize it only takes a few thousandths to create a lot of stress). I plan to try the RTV only method after I find another neck. I had torqued it to 55 ft-lbs so will try 50 instead. Keeping my fingers crossed...

Special Coupe Frank · 02-01-2011, 09:00 AM

FWIW, when I was doing a head gasket on my '28 last April, I discovered that the old (original) water outlet had had an ear broken-off and brazed back on.

I ordered a replacement cast-iron neck from Bratton's, as I wanted a tapping for a temp gauge. I surfaced the flange of the new neck first with a wide, long fine flat-file, chamfering the outer edge first, then going across the long dimension of the flange several times, taking down any major high-spots.

Then I put some 220 silicone-carbide paper against a piece of float-glass, and lapped the flange until I had uniform grinding marks across the surface.

I had also run the file across the outlet boos of the head before installing that.

I took my chances and installed the outlet with a copper gasket treated with Permatex Copper Spray-A-Gasket.

Knock-on-wood, it all went together fine, torqued down fine with the rest of the head ( three passes cold, stopping at 55 lbs, then run till hot, then torque again to 55 lbs.)

Gone about 3,000 miles since with no leakage / breakage.

MrTube · 02-01-2011, 09:08 AM

Our 31 A had a 28/29 neck on it for whatever reason. I ordered the standard 30/31 neck from Bratton's and installed it with a papergasket. Torqued it down to 55ftlbs with no problems.

However after hearing many people say to use RTV without a gasket I will probably do just that next time to be safe.

31Tudor · 02-01-2011, 09:56 AM

Rough Rider there is a water outlet for sale right now in the Swap Meet Section. I have always used the original style copper gasket and have never had a problem with that type gasket without having to use RTV or any sealer.

pdora · 02-01-2011, 11:11 AM

Related question:

If I use the clear RTV silicone, as suggested, what is involved in removing and re-installing the water outlet in the future. Can the silicone be scraped off, or what?

1931 flamingo · 02-01-2011, 11:59 AM

pdora: sure, then just make sure surfaves are good as explained above and repeat w/silicone. JMO
Paul in CT

01-31-2011, 08:33 AM	#1
roughrider Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New Mexico mountains Posts: 30	Which water outlets? Yes, while replacing the head,broke the water outlet (paper gasket) on a 31 coupe. Are there any of the repro outlets to avoid? She been asleep since 1966, it's time to wake up! Also the one on it was 5 3/8 tall, the catalogs prescribe a 6 inch, does it matter? Thanks.

01-31-2011, 09:12 AM	#2
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,516	Re: Which water outlets? Likely the original water outlet and/or the head was slightly warped causing the breakage. I recommend purchasing an original over the reproduction due to the quality. I would try Steve Becker at www.modelastore.com for an original one. Yes, the length matters. . __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

01-31-2011, 10:42 AM	#5
Glenn C. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Didsbury Alberta Posts: 838	Re: Which water outlets? Lap the water outlet surface on a piece of plate glass, or a chunk of granite for a true surface, with a sheet of wet/dry emery clothand solvent, to obtain a flat surface. Polymer sealer and no gasket. Make sure the mating surface of the head is perfectly clean with no old gasket reminents.

02-01-2011, 08:22 AM	#7
roughrider Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New Mexico mountains Posts: 30	Re: Which water outlets? Thanks for the replies! I had lapped the broken neck first on a flat machined surface and cleaned the head (it looked flat, but I realize it only takes a few thousandths to create a lot of stress). I plan to try the RTV only method after I find another neck. I had torqued it to 55 ft-lbs so will try 50 instead. Keeping my fingers crossed...

02-01-2011, 09:00 AM	#8
Special Coupe Frank Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Penna Posts: 2,108	Re: Which water outlets? FWIW, when I was doing a head gasket on my '28 last April, I discovered that the old (original) water outlet had had an ear broken-off and brazed back on. I ordered a replacement cast-iron neck from Bratton's, as I wanted a tapping for a temp gauge. I surfaced the flange of the new neck first with a wide, long fine flat-file, chamfering the outer edge first, then going across the long dimension of the flange several times, taking down any major high-spots. Then I put some 220 silicone-carbide paper against a piece of float-glass, and lapped the flange until I had uniform grinding marks across the surface. I had also run the file across the outlet boos of the head before installing that. I took my chances and installed the outlet with a copper gasket treated with Permatex Copper Spray-A-Gasket. Knock-on-wood, it all went together fine, torqued down fine with the rest of the head ( three passes cold, stopping at 55 lbs, then run till hot, then torque again to 55 lbs.) Gone about 3,000 miles since with no leakage / breakage.

02-01-2011, 09:08 AM	#9
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: Which water outlets? Our 31 A had a 28/29 neck on it for whatever reason. I ordered the standard 30/31 neck from Bratton's and installed it with a papergasket. Torqued it down to 55ftlbs with no problems. However after hearing many people say to use RTV without a gasket I will probably do just that next time to be safe.

02-01-2011, 09:56 AM	#10
31Tudor Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 611	Re: Which water outlets? Rough Rider there is a water outlet for sale right now in the Swap Meet Section. I have always used the original style copper gasket and have never had a problem with that type gasket without having to use RTV or any sealer.

02-01-2011, 11:11 AM	#11
pdora Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rutledge, Georgia Posts: 184	Re: Which water outlets? Related question: If I use the clear RTV silicone, as suggested, what is involved in removing and re-installing the water outlet in the future. Can the silicone be scraped off, or what? __________________ Peter A. Dora -- Rutledge, GA (AE4XH)

02-01-2011, 11:59 AM	#12
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Which water outlets? pdora: sure, then just make sure surfaves are good as explained above and repeat w/silicone. JMO Paul in CT