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Old 01-21-2020, 06:48 PM   #21
dmsfrr
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Default Re: 1954-Orphan Ford OHV V8 (Y Block)

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Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post
No holdover here! The flathead did not have a 'tang and slot' oil pump drive. It was gear drive off the back of the camshaft. Oil pump was at the rear of the block, distributor was mounted to the timing cover at the front.
Well that sure tells you how many flatheads I've looked at
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:39 AM   #22
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Default Re: 1954-Orphan Ford OHV V8 (Y Block)

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Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan View Post
True, the early Lincoln Y-blocks (317, 347, 368) were a completely different animal from the Ford Y-blocks (239, 272, 292, 312). And it would be true to say that there were zero interchangeable parts between the Ford and Lincoln Y-blocks (unless maybe a carburetor could be swapped).




Distributors and oil pumps were able to be swapped between Lincoln and Ford Y-Blocks.


Sal
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: 1954-Orphan Ford OHV V8 (Y Block)

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They made a large heavy OHV casting and then only gave it the same basic CID as the flathead it replaced. What were those whiz kids thinking? Even Olds started with a 303 and it was noticeably more powerful back in 1949. Overconfidence can be a killer! It certainly didn't help ford sell those cars.

Ford actually outsold Chevy in '54 for the first time in many years. Number one in sales for 1954, in fact. Another commenter called the '54 Y Block gutless, but compared to what? The Olds engine of '49 was impressive, but Olds was two sales market notches up from Chevy, Plymouth and Ford. Compared to those other two of the same year, the '54 Ford stacked up pretty good.

The 1960's are thought of as the horsepower wars, but the real horsepower explosion came in the 1950's...e.g., Ford produced v-8 engines that made barely over 100hp in the beginning of the decade, but offered cars with engines that were pushing 350 by the end of the decade. That's a 300% increase...and with that in mind, comparing a Y block from '54 to Y blocks just a couple of years later in terms of power isn't using the correct context.

My '54 RW has it's original engine and has never been rebuilt, but it runs smooth and quiet, and in (od) it'll cruise on the highway at 65 mph all day long. I've even had my non-rebuilt original engine car up to 80+, but only once or twice. Having said that, I've heard that rebuilding the 239 Y block isn't an easy endeavor, as apparently changes were made throughout the year, and (as the OP said) there's apparently some non-interchangeability with the later years. If it ever comes to that, I'll probably go with a 292 or 272...and when I do, I will, as always, rely on your generous sharing of experience and knowledge here at the Ford Barn.

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Old 01-25-2020, 05:15 PM   #24
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Default Re: 1954-Orphan Ford OHV V8 (Y Block)

The Lincoln Y-blocks were larger and heavier. The truck version was smaller in displacement at 279 cid in 52 and had solid tappets instead of hydraulics. The 1952 Big Job trucks got the OHV engines where the lighter duty trucks kept the flatheads till 53 just like the Ford cars & pickups unless they had the 6-cylinder 215 engines.

You would have thought that they would have started out with the 302 Y-block for trucks but that didn't come along till 1956 with the 332 being the larger of the two truck engines available that year. I never figured out why they didn't just use the 317 for all those applications. Ford did some weird stuff in that time frame.

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Old 01-27-2020, 10:54 AM   #25
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Post Re: 1954-Orphan Ford OHV V8 (Y Block)

There were two different 239 CI OHV engines introduced in 1954. The odd ball was the DIF (DETROIT) engine (PASS CAR). The later design 239 was CF (CLEVELAND FOUNDRY) (TRUCK) and was used prior to the later 1956 TRUCK 272.

This is where most confusion originates.
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Old 01-27-2020, 02:34 PM   #26
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Default Re: 1954-Orphan Ford OHV V8 (Y Block)

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. . . I've heard that rebuilding the 239 Y block isn't an easy endeavor, as apparently changes were made throughout the year, and (as the OP said) there's apparently some non-interchangeability with the later years. ...
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There were two different 239 CI OHV engines introduced in 1954. The odd ball was the DIF (DETROIT) engine (PASS CAR). The later design 239 was CF (CLEVELAND FOUNDRY) (TRUCK) and was used prior to the later 1956 TRUCK 272.
This is where most confusion originates.
About 6 years ago I took a leftover '54 engine to a local machine shop known for their Y-block work. Wanting to see if it was potentially repairable, or not.

The machinist told me it was ok and not 'the old version' that they hadn't been able to get cam bearings (and some other misc parts) from their supplier for about 10 years or more.
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:12 AM   #27
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Default Re: 1954-Orphan Ford OHV V8 (Y Block)

The 'Ford Y-Block' book by James Eickman does a pretty good job of listing the differences of the Cleveland and Dearborn 239 Y-Blocks.

As mentioned, stay away from the Dearborn engines as it is difficult (impossible?) to get replacement parts for.
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:07 PM   #28
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Default Re: 1954-Orphan Ford OHV V8 (Y Block)

The '54 was the '52-54 body run.


The first two years were mechanically behind the looks of the car.


Same thing with the '49-51 body run.


The body was the 'All New' post war airplane looking body.


Then you open the hood and it's the same old flathead!


The Ford OHV V8(Y Block) 239 was the right engine for them to make at



the time.


Ford stuck to their way of building engines and did not 'me too' the Olds and Cadillac OHV V8's or the Chrysler Firedome hemis.


So the Ford version OHV V8 came out as about as well as can be expected.
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Old 01-29-2020, 10:56 PM   #29
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Default Re: 1954-Orphan Ford OHV V8 (Y Block)

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Originally Posted by all american boy View Post


The first two years were mechanically behind the looks of the car.


Same thing with the '49-51 body run.


The body was the 'All New' post war airplane looking body.


Then you open the hood and it's the same old flathead!


The Ford OHV V8(Y Block) 239 was the right engine for them to make at



the time.

I'd heard somewhere - possibly this forum - that the Y block was supposed to have been introduced in '53, but the Korean war demanded materials that kept that from happening. I don't know how true that is, but that's what I heard. Maybe someone here can verify or debunk that.


Despite being a good engine (for me) the thing about my '54 Ford Y block that I didn't like was that to change out the canister type oil filter, I had to jack the left front of the car up and turn the steering wheel all the way one way or the other to get the canister to clear the linkage. Don't know if there was another way to accomplish that to get the filter changed, but the shop manual didn't mention anything. That's the only way I could get it to work, and it took me a few hours to figure it out. I theorized that was what resulted from shoehorning a Y block into an engine bay originally designated for a flathead, but I could be wrong.



I have a conventional filter adapter on it now, and it's fairly easy. You also had to get the old style canister oil housing lined up perfectly with the recess on the block...or oil would spill everywhere once you started the engine. I had to figure that out on my own, too.
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Old 01-30-2020, 01:50 AM   #30
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Thumbs up Re: 1954-Orphan Ford OHV V8 (Y Block)

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i'd heard somewhere - possibly this forum - that the y block was supposed to have been introduced in '53, but the korean war demanded materials that kept that from happening. I don't know how true that is, but that's what i heard. Maybe someone here can verify or debunk that.
True.
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