Starter Not Running

[Cape Codder]

What makes a starter not run fast?

Does the Bendix become engaged because of the speed of the starter?

What makes a starter not engage but just spin?

Thanks for any help!

[Patrick L.]

1. Bad starter [ open armature or commutator, brush contact, bearings]. Low battery. Bad or improper cables. Bad or improper terminal/cable connections.
2. yep
3. bad bendix

[Joe K]

An oily bendix can be cause for hanging up - either on-or off. Heavy oil attracts dirt which attracts hang-ups in service.

Best is a thin film of oil on the spiral. Everything else should be "whistle clean."

Joe K

[chap52]

Starter not engaging could of course be a bad Bendix. However these engines when they shut down stop in one of two places in their rotation. Sometimes the ring gear has broken or damaged teeth in one of these two "sweet spots" . Next time the starter just spins; turn off the key, place the car in 3rd gear, get out and roll it forward a foot or two. If you hear a "pop" as the Bendix snaps back into place, the Bendix needs a closer look. If no "pop" get back in and try to start it. If it starts properly I would suspect the ring gear.
Years ago this would occur on farm tractors and the flywheel would get removed, the ring gear position marked then the ring gear was removed and put right back on 90 degrees off from the previous placement. But it just as easy to replace with a new one...
Keep us posted... Chap

[katy]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

1. Bad starter [ open armature or commutator, brush contact, bearings]. Low battery. Bad or improper cables. Bad or improper terminal/cable connections.
2. yep
3. bad bendix

Also:
1. Oil on commutator and brushes.

[ryanheacox]

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Originally Posted by Joe K

An oily bendix can be cause for hanging up - either on-or off. Heavy oil attracts dirt which attracts hang-ups in service.

Best is a thin film of oil on the spiral. Everything else should be "whistle clean."

Joe K

Yup, I greased my bendix when I had the starter out thinking I was doing right by it... now it occasionally won't engage. Been too lazy to pull it out and clean the grease off

[Purdy Swoft]

Worn bushings , especially the rear bushing can cause the armature to drag .

[Purdy Swoft]

Grease or oil on the helix of the starter drive will cause the starter to just spin but not engage

[alexiskai]

One common modification, when slow starter speed is reported, is to add a grounding cable directly from one of the bolts on the starter back to the bolt on the chassis where the battery ground attaches.

[31Cabriolet68-C]

I'm having a hard time understanding why the engine must always stop with the ring gear in 'one of two places' and thus create two ring-gear sweet spots.... I'm sure it does, I've seen many references to the phenomenon, but I'm not bright enough to get why....
Wouldn't using the 'push it in third gear' method be just about the same as
moving the crankshaft with the hand crank, (transmission in neutral!) perhaps just a half turn, and thereby move the two sweet spots out of their two usual contact spots?
Also, if the damage to the ring gear gets that severe would it be easy to see/feel the missing/chipped ring gear teeth when the starter motor was removed to clean up the shaft? I'm guessing you would also want to rotate the flywheel at least 180° to check both of the 'sweet spots'... I'm a carpenter, not an engineer (clearly!), and I really appreciate the patient assistance I see shared on the Ford Barn....
Thanks,
John

[Purdy Swoft]

When the starter drive locks up against the flywheel the engine can't be turned with the hand crank , that's why pushing or rocking the car in third gear or removing the starter is necessary . Removing and replacing the starter is way more difficult and time consuming than rocking the car in third gear .

[alexiskai]

I think you're actually supposed to put it in 3rd and push it backwards, which is why you couldn't achieve the same result by turning the hand crank, since the crank can only engage when rotating the engine in the "forwards" direction.

[1931 flamingo]

Weak battery and/or bad grounds. JMO
Paul in CT

[31Cabriolet68-C]

Thanks for the insight and info... Makes good sense....
So, still, what actually determines why the engines will always have to stop only in those
two identical locations, every time??? I just don't get it.
I'll bet it's real simple, just like me, but I once had a great teacher who often said,
"Easy things are never simple, and simple things are never easy...!"
It wasn't Henry Ford, but it does sound like him.
(It was Dr. Karl Lorenz, in 1966, at Roanoke College....)
Thanks again for all of your help and patience...
JB

[chap52]

Wish I had a younger memory...I know someone on here can explain the reason for the two stopping points. I know my 239 flathead did the same thing. Chap

[Cape Codder]

Well, I cannot report a conclusion to this problem. Sorry.
First, the starter belongs to a friend. He has decided to buy a rebuilt one along with a new Bendix. However, we did take it apart and cleaned commutator and the brushes along with the inside of the starter. It seemed to run a little faster on the bench but when installed just spun and would not start motor. I would have liked to replace just the Bendix (although maybe I can still talk him into putting the NEW Bendix on the old starter and try it) even though he has decided to replace both.

Thanks to all for your suggestions!

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by chap52

Wish I had a younger memory...I know someone on here can explain the reason for the two stopping points. I know my 239 flathead did the same thing. Chap

It has to do with compression. Firing order is 1,2,4,3. Compression will occur in that same order. But 1 and 2 will occur 180 degrees apart - like their relative positions on the crank. Thus similarly on opposite sides of the flywheel. And like 1 and 2, 4 and 3 will occur 180 degrees out, but each 360 degrees off from 1 and 2, or at the same places on the flywheel while 1 and 2 are each in exhaust stroke.

Joe K

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by 31Cabriolet68-C

Thanks for the insight and info... Makes good sense....
So, still, what actually determines why the engines will always have to stop only in those
two identical locations, every time??? I just don't get it.
I'll bet it's real simple, just like me, but I once had a great teacher who often said,
"Easy things are never simple, and simple things are never easy...!"
It wasn't Henry Ford, but it does sound like him.
(It was Dr. Karl Lorenz, in 1966, at Roanoke College....)
Thanks again for all of your help and patience...
JB

The Model A is a four cylinder motor which means all four cylinders fire once in two turns of the crankshaft (that is, every 720 degrees). The pistons usually come to a stop when they come up against a compression. There ae 4 compressions in every two turns ofthe crank. 720*÷4 = 180*, the angle between the stops. Two stops in 360 degrees.
Hope I explained that clearly enough.

[chap52]

Thanks for the explanation.
I feel much better now. I knew that I had a memory of something but wasn't sure where I got the information. It was either from a reliable source of from that "little voice" inside my head. I will have to give the voice credit, sometimes he has some great ideas.
I am getting hearing aids in a few weeks and wonder if the internal "voice" will go away or just get louder? I'll have to ask him... Chap

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by chap52

thanks for the explanation.
I feel much better now. I knew that i had a memory of something but wasn't sure where i got the information. It was either from a reliable source of from that "little voice" inside my head. I will have to give the voice credit, sometimes he has some great ideas.
i am getting hearing aids in a few weeks and wonder if the internal "voice" will go away or just get louder? I'll have to ask him... chap

lmao!