The Ford Barn

Mike McI · 06-02-2013, 06:27 PM

Good morning all. It's been a few years since I've last been on here.

I fitted a Mallory 23 series, single point distributor a few years ago. Great mechanical advance & retard which suits a lazy driver like me, but I'm burning out condensors at a great rate of knots.

Symptoms are after a couple of hours driving a light misfire starts getting progressively worse over about half a hour, to the point where the car is undriveable. Happened again yesterday on a club run. Conditions were cool and the car is on a fresh radiator, so I don't think there is an issue with the engine bay getting too hot.

The sar will idle but misfires & backfires as soon as any load goes on the motor. Symptoms similar to fuel starvation, but cleaning filter bowl & clearing jets on carb shows no issue with blockage. Replace the condensor and away I go again.

I changed to a 1.5 ohm Pertronix Flamethrower coil with no improvement. The condensor is a Mallory #400 (0.28 MFD, 600 v) as per Mallory's recommendations. Points are #25042 and don't show signs of pitting or burning on either side.

The car is running 6v, positive earth.

Doing a quick electrical check this morning:
Both terminals on the coil are live with the ignition switch off.
The negative terminal stays live with the key on.
The positive terminal goes dead with the key on and points closed. Goes live again with the points open.
The wire to the distributor is dead with the key off, live with key on and points open, dead again with the points closed.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this & possible causes.

Kind regards
Mike McInnarney.

H. L. Chauvin · 06-03-2013, 09:15 AM

Hi Mike,

Can't beleive you made it to Forum page 2 with no responses; however, here we go for requested: "thoughts & possible causes".

When aftermarket guys started making cheaper Model A condensors to replace original Ford made condensors, most increased condensor failures were heat gain related.

1. Did you ever try a "Burn Proof" Model A condensor offered by Model A vendors; e.g., part #17590 at Bratton's, or & part #A12300SP or similar part number, ("short proof" mylar wound), offered by other Model A vendors?

2. In addition, did you ever try the stainless steel distributor "Heat Shield", Bratton's part #17580, or part #A12280 or similar part number offered by other Model A vendors to deflect manifold heat from the distributor & condensor?

3. I would buy both of the above & in regards to the item mentioned in (2) above, wrap it (both upper & lower sides), with aluminum foil for much added heat reflection on the bottom & less heat emission on top -- unknown to many, aluminum radiant energy reduction will far out perform stainless steel.

This may be contrary to Mallory & other experts, but remember Edison was able to invent the light bulb because he did not go to college to hear professors say his thoughts violated all principles of physics.

Just thoughts & possible causes -- worth a try!

Others may chime in with other thoughts - they usually do after somebody breaks the ice.

Jim Brierley · 06-03-2013, 09:55 AM

I've had trouble with "newer" Mallory condensers too. I now run an older, large, Mallory condenser. In lieu of that do what H.L. above says or try to find a NOS Ford condenser from the 70's.

Bruce Lancaster · 06-03-2013, 11:22 AM

The recent Mallory stuff should be regarded as cores needing full debugging.
I've not worked on a Model A one, but believe they are about the same parts as Chevy small block ones. I've only used old 2-piece Model A ones, which are indestructible.
I debugged a nearly new one for a friend--we would have discarded it except that it was in a hotrod with a firewall wrapped tightly around it and all other distributors were too tall to fit!
What we found. This thing had been purchased new and had worn out two sets of points and a condenser while reaching a little over a thousand miles on the road! The poor guy had purchased it to replace an electronic Mallory that had nearly bankrupted him with module replacements:
1. Point rubbing blocks wore away right down to closed in a few hundred miles. Toss and replace with Echlin. Problem was probably points themselves and not the cam, as the NAPA ones were stable.
2. Condenser had burned out really fast...so toss and replace with non-Mallory one too. It had a secondary worry...it has painted with a brownish goo, possibly creosote...potential grounding issue, with corrosion issue if you clean it for good ground! Toss this, too, right now before you have to walk home.
3. Point terminals and the connecting wire were VERY close to the case at several points (dual point distributor) and had actually made burn marks at those points...the thing was running, but obviously very close to grounding out completely. Some bending and shifting cleared this up.

So...go through the thing completely, replace the normal tuneup stuff with anything but Mallory, and closely examine the electrical routing.

Benson · 06-03-2013, 01:35 PM

Bruce,

Something that may help in the future.

My brother had a Suburban 350 V8 with HEI that was burning up ignition modules every 200 to 1500 miles. Happened 10 or 11 times. GM, NAPA, Standard and others modules ... they all burned out.

FInal fix was to reconnect the ground wires from engine and transmission to the body.

Trouble started after the transmission was removed for service by a NON GM dealer.

1. I wonder if grounds would be a problem on Mallory distributors also?

2. I see that FSI says to run the power lead through the switch and directly to the battery and to double check the ground at the distributor / head mounting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

The recent Mallory stuff should be regarded as cores needing full debugging.
I've not worked on a Model A one, but believe they are about the same parts as Chevy small block ones. I've only used old 2-piece Model A ones, which are indestructible.
I debugged a nearly new one for a friend--we would have discarded it except that it was in a hotrod with a firewall wrapped tightly around it and all other distributors were too tall to fit!
What we found. This thing had been purchased new and had worn out two sets of points and a condenser while reaching a little over a thousand miles on the road! The poor guy had purchased it to replace an electronic Mallory that had nearly bankrupted him with module replacements:
1. Point rubbing blocks wore away right down to closed in a few hundred miles. Toss and replace with Echlin. Problem was probably points themselves and not the cam, as the NAPA ones were stable.
2. Condenser had burned out really fast...so toss and replace with non-Mallory one too. It had a secondary worry...it has painted with a brownish goo, possibly creosote...potential grounding issue, with corrosion issue if you clean it for good ground! Toss this, too, right now before you have to walk home.
3. Point terminals and the connecting wire were VERY close to the case at several points (dual point distributor) and had actually made burn marks at those points...the thing was running, but obviously very close to grounding out completely. Some bending and shifting cleared this up.

So...go through the thing completely, replace the normal tuneup stuff with anything but Mallory, and closely examine the electrical routing.

Bruce Lancaster · 06-03-2013, 01:47 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Yes, ground troubles are very troublesome on the electronc Mallory, but on the one my friend discarded direct hardwiring ground from distributor case to ground cable terminus failed to keep the thing alive. Contrast with OEM electronics...early GM HEI cars had such poor engine grounding that they sometimes MELTED things like kickdown and accel cables seeking ground paths...but the ignition modules lasted forever anyway on most of them.
The failures on the point Mallory were just incredibly bad quality combined with sloppy assembly...Mallory's move to China was not a happy one!

1931 flamingo · 06-03-2013, 04:33 PM

Try going to the EV8 forum and look for one of Bubba's posts and PM him. He's the go to guy over there for distributors, V8 and bangers. See what he recommends.
Paul in CT

Purdy Swoft · 06-03-2013, 07:55 PM

I've had good service from the Mallory dual point distributors. I have one in my speedster and one in my daughters 31 coupe. I bought these distributors in the ninties and they both have the original points that came in them. I've had to replace the condensers a few times but thats it. The place that was suppose to have Mallory parts, sold me condensers that are the same as the condensers that come with the so called modern points setups for model A distributors.These condensers are foreign and don't last very long no matter what distributor that they are used with.

I have one of the modern style condensers connected to the switch side of the coil on my Sept. 29 with an original distributor and it has held up for a few years so far. moving the condenser to the firewall, next to the coil lets it operate cooler and is a real novelty to show off.

Mike McI · 06-03-2013, 10:55 PM

Thanks Gents. Appreciated and points noted. I've heard comments about poor grounding because of the coating on the Mallory condensers before.I'd wondered about the condenser overheating (In the middle of a Wellington (NZ) winter???) and have just fitted a non-Mallory condenser, which I've mounted on the outside of the distributor. Ran well for about half an hour in my garage. This was my last run for the season, so I'll see how she goes next summer.

Best regards
Mike Mc.

zz29 · 11-05-2019, 02:09 PM

Hi Mike; I know this is an old post but I have had the exact same issue as you on a Flathead running a Mallory Dual Points Distributor. Run the car about 1.5 hrs, then misfiring, worsens, etc. Idles OK but under load it suffers. Next day car is fine. I have a feeling is bad condensers. I have ordered a new replica Brass condenser made like the old Mallory ones, it's being made by Tubman in the HAMB. It's not cheap but it's supposed to not allow the points to overheat which lead to the misfiring. Should arrive this week. Crossing my fingers that does the trick.

06-03-2013, 09:55 AM	#3
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,088	Re: Condensors burning out on a Mallory distributor I've had trouble with "newer" Mallory condensers too. I now run an older, large, Mallory condenser. In lieu of that do what H.L. above says or try to find a NOS Ford condenser from the 70's.

06-03-2013, 01:47 PM	#6
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Condensors burning out on a Mallory distributor Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Yes, ground troubles are very troublesome on the electronc Mallory, but on the one my friend discarded direct hardwiring ground from distributor case to ground cable terminus failed to keep the thing alive. Contrast with OEM electronics...early GM HEI cars had such poor engine grounding that they sometimes MELTED things like kickdown and accel cables seeking ground paths...but the ignition modules lasted forever anyway on most of them. The failures on the point Mallory were just incredibly bad quality combined with sloppy assembly...Mallory's move to China was not a happy one!

06-03-2013, 04:33 PM	#7
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Condensors burning out on a Mallory distributor Try going to the EV8 forum and look for one of Bubba's posts and PM him. He's the go to guy over there for distributors, V8 and bangers. See what he recommends. Paul in CT

06-03-2013, 07:55 PM	#8
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Condensors burning out on a Mallory distributor I've had good service from the Mallory dual point distributors. I have one in my speedster and one in my daughters 31 coupe. I bought these distributors in the ninties and they both have the original points that came in them. I've had to replace the condensers a few times but thats it. The place that was suppose to have Mallory parts, sold me condensers that are the same as the condensers that come with the so called modern points setups for model A distributors.These condensers are foreign and don't last very long no matter what distributor that they are used with. I have one of the modern style condensers connected to the switch side of the coil on my Sept. 29 with an original distributor and it has held up for a few years so far. moving the condenser to the firewall, next to the coil lets it operate cooler and is a real novelty to show off.

06-03-2013, 10:55 PM	#9
Mike McI Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2	Re: Condensors burning out on a Mallory distributor Thanks Gents. Appreciated and points noted. I've heard comments about poor grounding because of the coating on the Mallory condensers before.I'd wondered about the condenser overheating (In the middle of a Wellington (NZ) winter???) and have just fitted a non-Mallory condenser, which I've mounted on the outside of the distributor. Ran well for about half an hour in my garage. This was my last run for the season, so I'll see how she goes next summer. Best regards Mike Mc.

06-02-2013, 06:27 PM	#1
Mike McI Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2	Condensors burning out on a Mallory distributor Good morning all. It's been a few years since I've last been on here. I fitted a Mallory 23 series, single point distributor a few years ago. Great mechanical advance & retard which suits a lazy driver like me, but I'm burning out condensors at a great rate of knots. Symptoms are after a couple of hours driving a light misfire starts getting progressively worse over about half a hour, to the point where the car is undriveable. Happened again yesterday on a club run. Conditions were cool and the car is on a fresh radiator, so I don't think there is an issue with the engine bay getting too hot. The sar will idle but misfires & backfires as soon as any load goes on the motor. Symptoms similar to fuel starvation, but cleaning filter bowl & clearing jets on carb shows no issue with blockage. Replace the condensor and away I go again. I changed to a 1.5 ohm Pertronix Flamethrower coil with no improvement. The condensor is a Mallory #400 (0.28 MFD, 600 v) as per Mallory's recommendations. Points are #25042 and don't show signs of pitting or burning on either side. The car is running 6v, positive earth. Doing a quick electrical check this morning: Both terminals on the coil are live with the ignition switch off. The negative terminal stays live with the key on. The positive terminal goes dead with the key on and points closed. Goes live again with the points open. The wire to the distributor is dead with the key off, live with key on and points open, dead again with the points closed. I'd appreciate any thoughts on this & possible causes. Kind regards Mike McInnarney.

06-03-2013, 09:15 AM	#2
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Condensors burning out on a Mallory distributor Hi Mike, Can't beleive you made it to Forum page 2 with no responses; however, here we go for requested: "thoughts & possible causes". When aftermarket guys started making cheaper Model A condensors to replace original Ford made condensors, most increased condensor failures were heat gain related. 1. Did you ever try a "Burn Proof" Model A condensor offered by Model A vendors; e.g., part #17590 at Bratton's, or & part #A12300SP or similar part number, ("short proof" mylar wound), offered by other Model A vendors? 2. In addition, did you ever try the stainless steel distributor "Heat Shield", Bratton's part #17580, or part #A12280 or similar part number offered by other Model A vendors to deflect manifold heat from the distributor & condensor? 3. I would buy both of the above & in regards to the item mentioned in (2) above, wrap it (both upper & lower sides), with aluminum foil for much added heat reflection on the bottom & less heat emission on top -- unknown to many, aluminum radiant energy reduction will far out perform stainless steel. This may be contrary to Mallory & other experts, but remember Edison was able to invent the light bulb because he did not go to college to hear professors say his thoughts violated all principles of physics. Just thoughts & possible causes -- worth a try! Others may chime in with other thoughts - they usually do after somebody breaks the ice.

06-03-2013, 11:22 AM	#4
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Condensors burning out on a Mallory distributor The recent Mallory stuff should be regarded as cores needing full debugging. I've not worked on a Model A one, but believe they are about the same parts as Chevy small block ones. I've only used old 2-piece Model A ones, which are indestructible. I debugged a nearly new one for a friend--we would have discarded it except that it was in a hotrod with a firewall wrapped tightly around it and all other distributors were too tall to fit! What we found. This thing had been purchased new and had worn out two sets of points and a condenser while reaching a little over a thousand miles on the road! The poor guy had purchased it to replace an electronic Mallory that had nearly bankrupted him with module replacements: 1. Point rubbing blocks wore away right down to closed in a few hundred miles. Toss and replace with Echlin. Problem was probably points themselves and not the cam, as the NAPA ones were stable. 2. Condenser had burned out really fast...so toss and replace with non-Mallory one too. It had a secondary worry...it has painted with a brownish goo, possibly creosote...potential grounding issue, with corrosion issue if you clean it for good ground! Toss this, too, right now before you have to walk home. 3. Point terminals and the connecting wire were VERY close to the case at several points (dual point distributor) and had actually made burn marks at those points...the thing was running, but obviously very close to grounding out completely. Some bending and shifting cleared this up. So...go through the thing completely, replace the normal tuneup stuff with anything but Mallory, and closely examine the electrical routing.

11-05-2019, 02:09 PM	#10
zz29 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 1	Re: Condensors burning out on a Mallory distributor Hi Mike; I know this is an old post but I have had the exact same issue as you on a Flathead running a Mallory Dual Points Distributor. Run the car about 1.5 hrs, then misfiring, worsens, etc. Idles OK but under load it suffers. Next day car is fine. I have a feeling is bad condensers. I have ordered a new replica Brass condenser made like the old Mallory ones, it's being made by Tubman in the HAMB. It's not cheap but it's supposed to not allow the points to overheat which lead to the misfiring. Should arrive this week. Crossing my fingers that does the trick.