Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2019, 10:38 AM   #41
davids2toys
Senior Member
 
davids2toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southbury Ct
Posts: 135
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-MI View Post
David-

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as an "American Mercury truck." However, Canada did have a Mercury truck line. As for engine size, I am not totally positive but I believe the standard engine available for all ''49-'53 trucks was a 239 CC, same as the car. The '49-53 Merc engines were 255 CC and were also available as a special order in heavy duty Ford trucks.

To remove an oil pan without removing the engine from the car is not exactly a "walk in the park." I Imagine all Fordbarners have done it at least once so, there should be lots of advice/help available. Still, it is a nasty job.

Tom
I know at some point I will be doing this and I definitely do not want to remove the engine.
davids2toys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 10:46 AM   #42
davids2toys
Senior Member
 
davids2toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southbury Ct
Posts: 135
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
Please see the diagram from the Green Book below. As JSeery mentions, the drag link can be flipped end to end. The best way is with a proper removal tool and not a "pickle fork". Search for a "front end service kit".
All I have is a pickle ford, why can't you use it? Are you worried about the rubber boot?
davids2toys is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 10-07-2019, 11:38 AM   #43
glennpm
Senior Member
 
glennpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 761
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Yes, you have a real good chance of destroying the boot. The tie rod ends are not going to come out easily.

Last edited by glennpm; 10-07-2019 at 12:02 PM.
glennpm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 11:42 AM   #44
davids2toys
Senior Member
 
davids2toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southbury Ct
Posts: 135
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
Yes, you have a real good chance of destroying the boot.
I will take a look at how bad the boot already is. Thanks
davids2toys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 05:53 PM   #45
glennpm
Senior Member
 
glennpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 761
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Hi David,


The fork is going to push and cut on the bottom side of the boot when you try to get the rod end out. If you have one slide it in place and you can see this. Most of the time, you will also have to hammer the side of the spindle to get it out. Just trying to give you advice, been there done that ....
glennpm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 06:22 PM   #46
davids2toys
Senior Member
 
davids2toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southbury Ct
Posts: 135
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
Hi David,


The fork is going to push and cut on the bottom side of the boot when you try to get the rod end out. If you have one slide it in place and you can see this. Most of the time, you will also have to hammer the side of the spindle to get it out. Just trying to give you advice, been there done that ....
Totally appreciate that, thank you.
By rotating the sleeve it is much better. I am actually thinking of shimming the motor mount with a thick washer to make it clear the pan totally. Does anybody know if shimming up the motor mount an 1/8 of an inch would have any negative impact on any part of the drive train? I have no idea how that torque tube thing works, I know with a regular driveshaft I would not be to concerned
davids2toys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 06:33 PM   #47
glennpm
Senior Member
 
glennpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 761
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Hi David,


Shimming may work. I haven't seen a good picture of the gouge and how far back on the pan it is. If you think 1/8" at the groove would work, you need to add quite a bit more under the front motor mount. The amount of increase is controlled by a line from the front to the rear mounts. You may have to loosen or shim the rear mounts too.
glennpm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2019, 06:51 PM   #48
davids2toys
Senior Member
 
davids2toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southbury Ct
Posts: 135
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
Hi David,


Shimming may work. I haven't seen a good picture of the gouge and how far back on the pan it is. If you think 1/8" at the groove would work, you need to add quite a bit more under the front motor mount. The amount of increase is controlled by a line from the front to the rear mounts. You may have to loosen or shim the rear mounts too.
WOW, never thought of any of that, but I see your point. It is all the way at the back of the pan sump about an inch up
davids2toys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 04:02 AM   #49
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 5,919
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Ok, I'm a bit late to the party, but here is what I'd do.

Support the front axle on stands and remove both front wheels for better access. the weight of the vehicle needs to be on the axle.

Remove the drag link completely, using a purpose made tool rather than a pickle fork, so no damage to the boots.

If the incorrect stop nuts are fitted, I would fit the correct extended stop nuts.

Move the hubs from lock to lock checking for foul conditions between the tie rod and the radius rods. Ensure the tie rod clamps are oriented so the bolts are not causing a foul condition.

If there is a foul condition then bending of steering arms may be necessary, but this is normally found on hot rods rather than stockers.

Center the hubs so they are in the straight ahead position.

Center the steering box by counting turns lock to lock and setting at the half way mark.

Adjust the length of the drag link so it just falls in place. Fit it without tightening fully. Put the adjusters near the axle end, oriented so the bolts are away from the radius rod (wishbone).

Move the steering from lock to lock to see where the foul conditions are.

If the drag link is still hitting the pan, i would consider putting a slight bend in the drag link, nothing too radical, just a kink to gain clearance. the length of the link may need to be adjusted after bending so the drag link falls into place with steering box and hubs centered.

I would consider if anything could be gained from raising the motor somewhat, without creating problems elsewhere.

If there is a foul condition near either full lock that can not be corrected within the scope of the amount of work you want to do, I would consider limiting the lock to a lesser angle by either putting washers under the stop nut or making an oversize stop nut. Again, this is hot rod territory, and should not be needed on a stocker.

Thinking about it, your car has been hot rodded. It has an incorrect motor, and it is the incorrect oil pan that is causing the problem, so thinking outside the box may be called for.

When looking at the foul conditions, take into account what happens when the axle rides a bump, you need added clearance above the suspension parts.

If you cannot resolve your issue by following the above, you may need to pull the motor, repair the pan and modify it to gain clearance, or fit a different pan, and the associated oil pump and pickup.

Importantly, ensure you tighten everything up when finished.

Hope this helps.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 07:38 AM   #50
Tom-MI
Junior Member
 
Tom-MI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 20
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

I am not really convinced that shimming the engine mounting would solve your problem. I suspect it would more likely lead to some big time clutch chatter especially if a lot of shims were added. However, no harm in trying and shims can be easily removed.

Tom
Tom-MI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 08:21 AM   #51
Zeke3
Senior Member
 
Zeke3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Columbus, IN
Posts: 105
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

When you get around to flipping the drag link so the adjusting sleeve is outboard at the wheel end, go to O'Reilly's, Advance Auto or Auto Zone and "borrow" the correct tool for removing the tie rod ends you wish to reuse. Save that pickle fork for jobs you don't plan to reuse.
Zeke3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 08:39 AM   #52
davids2toys
Senior Member
 
davids2toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southbury Ct
Posts: 135
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Mart,
Thank you so much for the detailed guidance. I can already see I would have made some mistakes here. this information helps more than you know!!!

Zeke,

I already called auto zone about their tool loner program. I will get there this week and I took photos of both ends so I get the right tool
Tom,
After I thought about it a bit more yesterday, I decided to not shim anything at all.
Thanks all...Dave
davids2toys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 10:39 AM   #53
davids2toys
Senior Member
 
davids2toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southbury Ct
Posts: 135
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

So I got the tool and started doing it last night. I go the one near the wheel no problem, the one near the steering arm is going to be murder, no room to get on the tool with the wrench or socket. I reattached the other end loosely and will try to get back to the steering arm side and tackle that one first. Just got it broken free, I needed to turn the wheel all the way to the right to be able to use the tool.

A few questions:
1. What is the Torque spec range on the tie rod castellated nut? I read 40-50 ft lbs somewhere online. On removal,one of the castellated nuts was much tighter than the other one.


2. There is no real boot, it is a metal curved washer that retains the grease. On top of that is a thick rubber washer. Is this correct? The rubber washer on the the tie rod near the where is torn/split. Since this is a total limited use driver, I will probable just put it back on the way it was and check the grease more frequently, or do I need a new tie rod?


3. If everything stays in place and I just rotate the adjuster, will this change anything beside the orientation of the adjuster bolts?


4. So I will not be turning anything, I just plan to flip it and rotate the adjuster enough to keep the bolts from interfering if needed. I am thinking if I do not turn anything, I should be good to go because it should just line up and be in the same position? With the wheels straight, and hopefully the steering arm is also straight. If it is not, do I just loosen up the adjuster sleeve and adjust the tie rods with the ends not connected to the spindles?
I am also assuming the the back and forth swivel action should be at the middle of its travel when wheels and steering arm are straight and in the middle of its travel ? Can someone explain quick how to do a tie rod adjustment? That will help me understand the adjuster sleeve and how it works

5. While removing the wheels I noticed they have way to much drag, one is a lot worse than the other. So I guess I am going too learn how to adjust these antique brakes also! That would explain why it was pulling to one side when I hit the brakes.
Thank you...Dave

Last edited by davids2toys; 10-23-2019 at 01:48 PM. Reason: added text
davids2toys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 07:36 PM   #54
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 13,216
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Tie rods and steering rods are normally setup with right hand threads on one end and left hand threads on the other end of a threaded tube. Rotating the tube one direction will lengthen the overall length and rotating it the other direction will shorten it. If you are just removing the steering link and swaping it end for end it should not require any adjusting as the overall length is not changing. The tie rod controls the angle of the wheel/tires to each other (toe in and/or toe out) and is adjusted by loosing the clamps on each end, rotating the tie rod to get the toe in wanted and retightening the clamps. The steering link mainly allows you to change the relationship of the steering wheel to the wheel/tire position, so adjusting it can be used to center the steering wheel when the tires are straight ahead.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 09:06 PM   #55
davids2toys
Senior Member
 
davids2toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southbury Ct
Posts: 135
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Good info here, but not sure if we are talking about the same part. Are you talking about the drag link? This goes from the steering box to the passenger wheel. What you are talking about almost sounds like the bar next to it that goes from spindle to spindle.
So I already rotated about 1/2 turn the adjusting sleeve on the drag link to get the bolt heads away from hitting the oil pan. Do you think 1.2 turn will make a big difference?
davids2toys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 09:35 PM   #56
Tinker
Senior Member
 
Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MN/FL
Posts: 5,013
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Do you have a drop axle also? The weight of the later engine might be lowering things a bit also.


Might think about a drop steering arm. Mods need mods. Drag connects to one spindle (across the car), "tie" rod runs to the other spindle (spindle to spindle). I think most are on board there.


You might have drop spindles for the tie rod. Which why they clear but your steering arm (drag) may not be.


Just a thought.



.
Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 09:52 PM   #57
davids2toys
Senior Member
 
davids2toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southbury Ct
Posts: 135
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

The bar that goes from spindle to spindle is on the same plane as the drag link. The drag link is forward and hits the oil pan
davids2toys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 01:40 AM   #58
Tinker
Senior Member
 
Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MN/FL
Posts: 5,013
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

So no drop axle or spindles?
Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 09:45 AM   #59
davids2toys
Senior Member
 
davids2toys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southbury Ct
Posts: 135
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Not as far as I know. Would there be a way to tell? Sorry for my ignorance!
davids2toys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 09:46 AM   #60
glennpm
Senior Member
 
glennpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 761
Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

See Mart's message above for the proper way to set the length of the drag link.



"Center the hubs so they are in the straight ahead position.

Center the steering box by counting turns lock to lock and setting at the half way mark.

Adjust the length of the drag link so it just falls in place. Fit it without tightening fully. Put the adjusters near the axle end, oriented so the bolts are away from the radius rod (wishbone).

Move the steering from lock to lock to see where the foul conditions are."
glennpm is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:31 AM.