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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 39
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I have a 1935 Ford Convertible Sedan that is in need of a top. I have the iron framework that appears intact. The prior owner appears to have restored the iron but I know I am missing pieces I have to find before I can have the canvas work done.
I have been getting great information from multiple sources to help me figure out what is needed. But I have not found any exploded diagram to help me put the pieces together. It was suggested to me by Karl at Wescotts that it would be a good idea to start a thread of "my journey" with pictures and videos for future generations. It should be noted though, I am not doing a frame off restoration. My goal is to build a driver. That being said, I might use alternative methods that make the top functional but not "authentic". I am not an expert and lots of you have experience and suggestions so please feel free to add to this story. I will add pictures I have already collected from some of you (thanks a bunch). I'll start with a couple of videos showing my starting point. https://youtu.be/fz-aGL-NtUQ - video of the driver side iron framework https://youtu.be/B-QOgMQuOIA - video of the passenger iron framework |
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#2 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,750
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I would suggest you contact Jon Anderson in PA he is in the V8 Roster of members.
For Cabriolets: early 35 the windshield frame pins for the top attachment are straight and for the later cars they are angled. The chrome pockets for the pins attached into the front header are also different. I have been told the front and rear wood headers also differ early to late. There are three rubber plugs in the large holes in the header metal pan and the rib in the pan fits into a rubber strip that is attached to the top of windshield frame recess. The photo below shows 34 top hardware. Note the pins are straight and the appearance of the pockets, same appearance as 35. The skirtless thumb screw is correct for 35. Last edited by Terry,OH; 02-27-2020 at 02:18 PM. |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 39
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First off i know I will need the wood header but I did not know what it looked like. I did learn the Convertible Sedan and Cabriolet have the same wood header. I've included a picture for those like me that never saw one before.
These wood bows are available at Wescott's and also Oak Bows. But I will need to allow plenty of time to get them since they are custom made. Then I also learned there is a tin stripe that fits under the wood between and the top of the windshield. It looks like this: The folks at Oak Bow says they have them in stock. Last edited by rbassemir; 03-01-2020 at 12:32 PM. Reason: replace http links to pictures with attachments instead |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 39
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I also learned I will need a rear wood bow in the back. In the video you can see the iron with multiple holes in it to mount the wood. Westcott's and Oak Bows both have these as well, but I need to allow plenty of time. Here is a good picture that shows what the interior will look like (some day).
What I am still investigating are the top wood side pieces. as well as some pads. No pictures on that yet. Last edited by rbassemir; 03-01-2020 at 12:34 PM. Reason: replaced https links with attachments |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 39
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I learned that the dowels on the top of the windshield were done two different ways. The dowel could be vertically up and down relative to the body or it could be angled in line with the windshield. If I were to buy the straight dowels, they would attach to the windshield and be at an angle, the angle of the windshield. If I were to buy the angled dowels, after mounting them to the windshield they would be vertical in relation to the body. Hopefully that makes sense to those interested.
My dowels appear to be the angled dowels because the dowel is vertical in relation to the body. This is important because I will need the correct brackets that fit into the wood header. Last edited by rbassemir; 03-01-2020 at 12:35 PM. Reason: replace http links to pictures with attachments instead |
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#6 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 10,101
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With respect, the skirt-less T-shaped thumb screws were used only on early '35-'36 open cars. They were replaced with round-headed thumb screws (with cross hatched perimeters), with part numbers 48-743188 and 48-747156. They initially had relatively small diameter heads which were subsequently increased as a running change (evidently without a change in part numbers) to the size of the thumb screws in the photo in #4 above. I don't recall the small head version ever being reproduced, unlike the large head version shown in that photo. Last edited by DavidG; 02-27-2020 at 04:12 PM. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,287
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Carpenter makes both a small and a large version knurled knob. I would need David or Don R to step in to say they are "correct".
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#8 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 10,101
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Karl,
I have originals of both versions, but they are 1,600 miles distant. From memory and the illustrations in the Hardware and Trimming Supplies catalog, those in your photo look to be pretty accurate. A quibble would be that on the originals the cross hatching does not come all the way out to the outer edge (nor to the inner edge). |
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#9 |
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greenville NC
Posts: 83
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![]() Last edited by carolina-bob; 02-27-2020 at 05:09 PM. Reason: I haven't gotten how to post pics down yet sorry |
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#10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wildwood, MO. (near St. Louis)
Posts: 1,792
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Here's a list of the correct thumb screws for the convertible sedan.
48-747154 (basically a 48-747156 thumb with staked washer) used on the forward hinge of the folding top iron ass'y(2) 48-747156 used to clamp top iron ass'y to top of center pillar(2) 48-747189 used to clamp bottom of center pillar(2) 48-743188 used on windshield header dowel(2) and on rear top clamping bracket(2) Here's a drawing from The BFRC Archives of the correct thumb screws for the convertible sedan. |
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#11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wildwood, MO. (near St. Louis)
Posts: 1,792
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Rick, Keep in mind that the slanted vs vertical dowels only apply to cabriolets (early vs later) By the time that the convertible sedans were introduced in April 1935 all dowels were vertical.
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#12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 10,101
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Don,
Thanks for the drawing and elaboration. Given my advanced age, I took comfort that my recollection of the cross hatching not extending to the edges was accurate. However, I did forget about the crown. Like so many of the surviving original drawings, we are left guessing as to what were the four changes made. Likely one was the diameter change, but one (not many) wonders about the other three. |
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#13 |
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greenville NC
Posts: 83
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I'll try this again. If it doesn't work this time I'll quit.
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#14 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlotte NC KiWi-L100 available here
Posts: 2,960
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I too will be watching this thread with interest as I have a very solid & complete 36 CS I am in reassembling as a nice driver. I have a very nice repo. Wooden header as well as my nice original (neither for sale sorry). I am struggling to load pics on the barn with my new IPhone. Would like to contribute to this thread as much as I can so all of us convertible sedan owners cam benefit.
Cheers Tony |
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#15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 10,101
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Don,
I've had some fellow hobbyists question the drawing from the BFRC and the more I think about it, I share their questions. I have original knobs as do others and of my and some others' knobs, none have a domed outer surface; all of them are flat. While not a statistically valid sample size, twenty or so knobs cannot be completely ignored nor are they likely to be old reproductions. I realize that you are only sharing what is on a eighty-five year old drawing not of your making. So, the question is: what has been your own experience with original knobs? Two others are: what's a staked washer in this application if you know? and what do you think was the timing of the switch to the larger diameter knobs? Thanks. Dave |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cairns , Australia
Posts: 746
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I too am following this thread and have been talking to Rich. Does anyone know if superior car parts in Illinois is still operating? They have the header tin plate listed on their website, but so far I haven’t been able to make contact with them. I am currently do a body off frame restoration of my RHD 35 cs.
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#17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wildwood, MO. (near St. Louis)
Posts: 1,792
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Dave, here is the drawing of the 48-747154 thumb screw. Notice that is shows a flat thumb screw and a staked washer. My guess is that there may have been several suppliers of thumb screws. Ford also may have taken some liberties with these drawings. Next trip to the Archives I will see if there are additional drawings on file with earlier dates that may show an evolution of design.
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#18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 10,101
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Great, Don, thanks!
It is as I suspected and a great way to prevent the washer from becoming misplaced. My convertible sedan experience is limited to a '35, which I sent back from Argentina, and did not keep very long and a '39, which I restored, but its knobs were different, of course. The original knobs that I have all are survivors from the six '35 and '36 phaetons and roadsters I've had over the years. Last edited by DavidG; 02-29-2020 at 12:00 PM. |
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#19 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wildwood, MO. (near St. Louis)
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Dave, Its interesting that 35 Body Parts Lists indicate a 48-715000 thumb screw for the top clamping brackets on both Roadsters and Phaetons. However, by 1936, they were using the 48-743188 thumb screw. I have been unable to find a drawing of the 48-715000 thumb screw to see what the difference was.
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#20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 10,101
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Could it be the elusive small diameter version? Perhaps, but without the drawing that cannot be assumed out of hand. Maybe we can back into the answer by comparing the lengths of the threaded portions of the originals against those where the drawings have survived. I'll add it to my late-April to-do list.
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