The Ford Barn

dumb person · 09-19-2014, 03:07 AM

So i believe my transmission slips, new bands, new cams on the peddles, the drums may be too smooth. Do i need to make them rougher? Is it possible for them to have worn too smooth?

The people of your world would be horrified to think of someone putting a stainless steel wire brush on the drums while the engine was running but it appears to be the only option available to me.

kwisor · 09-19-2014, 09:14 AM

hello
you may only need to adj the clutch
kevin
1923 model t roadster p/u
1930 model a tudor

redmodelt · 09-19-2014, 10:07 AM

The drums should be smooth. If they are ruff it would be like taking sand paper to the linings. Type mtfca; clutch adjustment in your search box and you will get a lot of hits on the subject.

dumb person · 09-20-2014, 04:01 PM

i did think about adjusting the clutch but high gear & neutral work well. Only low and reverse are a problem.

kwisor · 09-20-2014, 04:31 PM

hello
then you will need to adj the bands more. the reverse has to be done from under the trans cover and the low band can be done from the out side the trans on the rt side. don't go to tight adj and ck may take a cople of times and if to tight then lossen a little
kevin

redmodelt · 09-20-2014, 05:07 PM

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Depends on if he has left or right hand drive.

dumb person · 09-20-2014, 09:45 PM

There is no adjustment left. It is like teflon drums, except the brake one works well.

J Sims · 09-21-2014, 05:40 AM

OK you have me confused. You say new bands and then that you have no adjustment left. With new band linings you should have lots of adjustment. DO NOT scratch the drums!! they must be smooth. Please explain.

tmodelman · 09-21-2014, 09:16 AM

Could be the band lining is now glazed up and won't hold on the drums. If run too loose or not enough foot pedal push to really hold low and reverse bands against the drums,, so that they 'lock up' and make the planet gears do the trans work, then the spinning action of the drum will glaze the new linings. Probably the brake lining is still good because it is used sparingly and with enough foot pedal pressure on and off.

Or could be the new linings were installed with bumps or gaps, the lining has to be fitted correctly, bumps and gaps will wear first, leaving the lining away from the drum.

Or the bands are standing proud of the drums, that can happen if the bands are sprung, as when installed thru the transmission opening time and time again, bending them out of shape. Before install of the linings, the band "ears" should be only 3"-4" apart, and the band a concentric clean circle to mate with the drum.

Royce P · 09-21-2014, 05:22 PM

Several things can cause this problem.

First, make sure the pedals are not contacting the floor boards. The last several sets of new reproduction floor boards I have used had the slots cut short in the front. I typically have to add 1" forward on them.

Second, over time the pedals get bent forward. When that happens you don't get full travel, and it throws off all the adjustments. You may have to remove the pedals and re shape them.

The drums grab the bands best when they are perfectly smooth, which gives maximum contact area. On the other hand some machinists will cut the diameter of the drums on a lathe in order to make the drum perfectly smooth. This reduces the diameter of the drum, which causes you to lose adjustment. It often leads to cracked drums too, particularly when Kevlar bands are used with machined too thin drums.

Stanley Evans · 09-25-2014, 04:49 PM

I had the exact problem you are describing. Your rear brakes may be locked up. Don't ask how I know this.

dumb person · 09-28-2014, 10:24 PM

Pretty sure the brakes are not binding as they spin when i lift the wheels.

C26Pinelake · 11-07-2014, 09:01 AM

Whatever you do, don't roughen up the drums ! With new bands you should certainly have all kinds of adjustment left ??
Wayne

Willie in Houston · 11-07-2014, 11:25 AM

There is a cam on the bottom of the brake and reverse pedal. The reverse usually does not wear much because of little use, but the brake cam on the pedal can wear to the point that it does not move the brake band when depressed. The pedal should start pushing the band against the drum after little movement of the pedal. I have seen pedal cams worn to the point that they would almost not move the band at all when the pedal is pressed. There is a second part to the cam which is bolted to the transmission cover and is replaceable. Both halves need to be good to get good braking action and adjustment.
Oh, if you have RHD, there are cams, but in different locations. The low adjustment is inside the transmission and the reverse and brake adjustments are on the outside.

Tom RSA · 11-08-2014, 01:58 AM

Which linings have you fitted? I used the cheaper option on my 1923 Tourer in 2009 and they lasted one trip. They were just too thin. Change to Kevlar and have done over 5000 miles since and plenty of adjustment left.

09-19-2014, 03:07 AM	#1
dumb person Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South pacific island Posts: 1,724	How smooth should tranmission drums be? So i believe my transmission slips, new bands, new cams on the peddles, the drums may be too smooth. Do i need to make them rougher? Is it possible for them to have worn too smooth? The people of your world would be horrified to think of someone putting a stainless steel wire brush on the drums while the engine was running but it appears to be the only option available to me. __________________ <Link> This is how we roll<Link> "I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob Outcasts rules of old cars #1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated #2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong #3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough. #4 No shame in recreating something you never had #5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable

09-19-2014, 10:07 AM	#3
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? The drums should be smooth. If they are ruff it would be like taking sand paper to the linings. Type mtfca; clutch adjustment in your search box and you will get a lot of hits on the subject.

09-20-2014, 04:01 PM	#4
dumb person Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South pacific island Posts: 1,724	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? i did think about adjusting the clutch but high gear & neutral work well. Only low and reverse are a problem. __________________ <Link> This is how we roll<Link> "I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob Outcasts rules of old cars #1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated #2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong #3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough. #4 No shame in recreating something you never had #5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable

09-20-2014, 04:31 PM	#5
kwisor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: lexington sc Posts: 456	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? hello then you will need to adj the bands more. the reverse has to be done from under the trans cover and the low band can be done from the out side the trans on the rt side. don't go to tight adj and ck may take a cople of times and if to tight then lossen a little kevin

09-20-2014, 05:07 PM	#6
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Depends on if he has left or right hand drive.

09-20-2014, 09:45 PM	#7
dumb person Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South pacific island Posts: 1,724	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? There is no adjustment left. It is like teflon drums, except the brake one works well. __________________ <Link> This is how we roll<Link> "I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob Outcasts rules of old cars #1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated #2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong #3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough. #4 No shame in recreating something you never had #5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable

09-21-2014, 05:40 AM	#8
J Sims Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Central Mich Posts: 28	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? OK you have me confused. You say new bands and then that you have no adjustment left. With new band linings you should have lots of adjustment. DO NOT scratch the drums!! they must be smooth. Please explain.

09-21-2014, 09:16 AM	#9
tmodelman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: north central FL Posts: 580	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? Could be the band lining is now glazed up and won't hold on the drums. If run too loose or not enough foot pedal push to really hold low and reverse bands against the drums,, so that they 'lock up' and make the planet gears do the trans work, then the spinning action of the drum will glaze the new linings. Probably the brake lining is still good because it is used sparingly and with enough foot pedal pressure on and off. Or could be the new linings were installed with bumps or gaps, the lining has to be fitted correctly, bumps and gaps will wear first, leaving the lining away from the drum. Or the bands are standing proud of the drums, that can happen if the bands are sprung, as when installed thru the transmission opening time and time again, bending them out of shape. Before install of the linings, the band "ears" should be only 3"-4" apart, and the band a concentric clean circle to mate with the drum.

09-21-2014, 05:22 PM	#10
Royce P Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tulsa OK Posts: 476	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? Several things can cause this problem. First, make sure the pedals are not contacting the floor boards. The last several sets of new reproduction floor boards I have used had the slots cut short in the front. I typically have to add 1" forward on them. Second, over time the pedals get bent forward. When that happens you don't get full travel, and it throws off all the adjustments. You may have to remove the pedals and re shape them. The drums grab the bands best when they are perfectly smooth, which gives maximum contact area. On the other hand some machinists will cut the diameter of the drums on a lathe in order to make the drum perfectly smooth. This reduces the diameter of the drum, which causes you to lose adjustment. It often leads to cracked drums too, particularly when Kevlar bands are used with machined too thin drums.

09-25-2014, 04:49 PM	#11
Stanley Evans Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Kelso Posts: 3	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? I had the exact problem you are describing. Your rear brakes may be locked up. Don't ask how I know this.

09-28-2014, 10:24 PM	#12
dumb person Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South pacific island Posts: 1,724	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? Pretty sure the brakes are not binding as they spin when i lift the wheels. __________________ <Link> This is how we roll<Link> "I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob Outcasts rules of old cars #1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated #2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong #3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough. #4 No shame in recreating something you never had #5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable

11-07-2014, 09:01 AM	#13
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? Whatever you do, don't roughen up the drums ! With new bands you should certainly have all kinds of adjustment left ?? Wayne

11-07-2014, 11:25 AM	#14
Willie in Houston Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 252	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? There is a cam on the bottom of the brake and reverse pedal. The reverse usually does not wear much because of little use, but the brake cam on the pedal can wear to the point that it does not move the brake band when depressed. The pedal should start pushing the band against the drum after little movement of the pedal. I have seen pedal cams worn to the point that they would almost not move the band at all when the pedal is pressed. There is a second part to the cam which is bolted to the transmission cover and is replaceable. Both halves need to be good to get good braking action and adjustment. Oh, if you have RHD, there are cams, but in different locations. The low adjustment is inside the transmission and the reverse and brake adjustments are on the outside. Last edited by Willie in Houston; 11-07-2014 at 11:30 AM. Reason: forgot RHD

11-08-2014, 01:58 AM	#15
Tom RSA Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: East London, South Africa Posts: 16	Re: How smooth should tranmission drums be? Which linings have you fitted? I used the cheaper option on my 1923 Tourer in 2009 and they lasted one trip. They were just too thin. Change to Kevlar and have done over 5000 miles since and plenty of adjustment left.