Transmission and bell housing install

[walkerlakeprinter]

I am planning to install my u-joint, transmission and bell housing in my chassis before I install the engine. I have removed and reinstalled my engine in the past from the front by disconnecting from the bell housing without disturbing the rear axle and driveline. Any suggestions on how to hold the bell housing/transmission/u-joint in place before attaching the engine with its supports? I will be using float-a-motor rear engine mounts.

[Farrell In Vancouver]

Wratchet straps around the frame and sling the trans

[walkerlakeprinter]

That could work. I need more ratchet straps anyway. Now I need to find the bolts for my rear Float-a-Motor. My U-Joint cover has the "finger" attached, so I didn't use the transmission attachement 20+ years ago when I first installed it in Alaska.

[2manycars]

I use a floor jack.

[walkerlakeprinter]

I have one of those, too. That might be better when I aim the flywheel housing to the bell housing. I screw in two headless bolts to line up two of the holes in the bell housing. It worked smoothly 20+ years ago the last time I did this. A friend helped me lever the engine back toward the bell housing with a length of 2x4. I may be 70 years old, but my memory is slowly clicking in remembering what I did before. Now that I a retired and living in Nevada with sunshine rather than Alaska with rain, it is a lot more fun.

[Chris Haynes]

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Originally Posted by Farrell In Vancouver

Wratchet straps around the frame and sling the trans

There is no "W" in ratchet. :-)

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by walkerlakeprinter

I have one of those, too. That might be better when I aim the flywheel housing to the bell housing. I screw in two headless bolts to line up two of the holes in the bell housing. It worked smoothly 20+ years ago the last time I did this. A friend helped me lever the engine back toward the bell housing with a length of 2x4. I may be 70 years old, but my memory is slowly clicking in remembering what I did before. Now that I a retired and living in Nevada with sunshine rather than Alaska with rain, it is a lot more fun.

Walker,
During the war, we lived in Henderson, Nevada & Chief, my Dad, worked at Basic Magnesium Inc, the WORLDS' largest Magnesium Foundry!
Bill Williamson

[ursus]

I am in the same situation and chose to mount the bell housing up to a spare flywheel housing and mount the whole tranny + driveline assembly in the engine mounts until it is time to install the engine. I left the rear spring U-bolts untightened until the bell housing was in the mounts, then tightened everything up after checking for any odd noises or misalignments in the drivetrain.

[Terry, NJ]

I trust that you have the flywheel cover surface indicated to within .006 before you bolt the trans to it and you haven't forgotten the two .010 shims that are under the top two bolts of the flywheel cover. Why Henry (or Edsel) did this is beyond me. But then why have the bell housing two pieces when it could (As later) have been one! And why were the trans. bolts on the inside of the bell housing instead of the outside ( again, as later) My Jaguar had a similar design and I couldn't figure out what the engineers were thinking of there either.
Terry

[walkerlakeprinter]

I took the motor out with the flywheel assembly intact. I did notice yesterday that the .010 shims I had placed originally were missing. That was odd, but I will order replacements before I bolt everything together. There are no end of puzzles when working on an 89 year old car. Some days I feel like an archaeologist!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

If any body thinks they can put 2, .010 thousandths shims on a flywheel housing, and then tighten it down in alignment, are badly mistaken.

The reason being is the variables, from one motor to another.

1. Flywheel housing warp.

2. Thickness of gasket used, making the distance of the two ears from the block variable.

Normally, it takes two different stack thickness to get the 9, and 3 o'clock points the same, or close to the same height. Then the top and bottom, 12, and 6 o'clock is set to the same height, by adding, or subtracting equal amount of shims from the two bolts.

A course adjustment in shims on the two top bolts, is never useful. I always end up with 1, and .002 thousandths shim thickness.

So, with this adjustment, you end up with 4 points on the flywheel housing that will pull up the Transmission Square.

Herm.

[Terry, NJ]

Herm, I will bow to your greater knowledge and experience on this fly wheel cover thing. I've only done this job about 4 or 5 times. The .010 shims for the two top bolts has been pretty consistent with them. These shims always measured and made from .010 shim stock. However, I believe the ones that the vendors sell are the same . correct me if I am wrong here.
Terry

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

If any body thinks they can put 2, .010 thousandths shims on a flywheel housing, and then tighten it down in alignment, are badly mistaken.

The reason being is the variables, from one motor to another.

1. Flywheel housing warp.

2. Thickness of gasket used, making the distance of the two ears from the block variable.

Normally, it takes two different stack thickness to get the 9, and 3 o'clock points the same, or close to the same height. Then the top and bottom, 12, and 6 o'clock is set to the same height, by adding, or subtracting equal amount of shims from the two bolts.

A course adjustment in shims on the two top bolts, is never useful. I always end up with 1, and .002 thousandths shim thickness.

So, with this adjustment, you end up with 4 points on the flywheel housing that will pull up the Transmission Square.

Herm.

I have to ask, because I don't know. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just seeking knowledge. How important is this adjustment? What happens if it is out of spec? The reason I ask is I wonder how many people actually check this and how many engines are running around 'out of adjustment'?

The flywheel housing on the engine I just pulled out had been cracked, right across the gasket surface, and repaired sometime in the last 88 years. I doubt it was ever "adjusted". It doesn't appear to have been detrimental to the car.

Nice presentation Herm...

Thank, Ruthie

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Herm, I will bow to your greater knowledge and experience on this fly wheel cover thing. I've only done this job about 4 or 5 times. The .010 shims for the two top bolts has been pretty consistent with them. These shims always measured and made from .010 shim stock. However, I believe the ones that the vendors sell are the same . correct me if I am wrong here.
Terry

Yes, they are .010, and you can get about a .032 thickness in lamination, which is best. We make our own as we by it in sheets, 8" x 24" sheets for our Rod, and Main shims.

The thing is, if the purpose is to square the flywheel housing with the transmission, and that is critical to a long life of a engine, you will have different amounts of shims under each top bolt, more times then not.

Because if the Pilot Shaft is anything but square, there will be premature wear.

Thanks,

Herm.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Ruth

I have to ask, because I don't know. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just seeking knowledge. How important is this adjustment? What happens if it is out of spec? The reason I ask is I wonder how many people actually check this and how many engines are running around 'out of adjustment'?

The flywheel housing on the engine I just pulled out had been cracked, right across the gasket surface, and repaired sometime in the last 88 years. I doubt it was ever "adjusted". It doesn't appear to have been detrimental to the car.

Nice presentation Herm...

Thank, Ruthie

Ok, if you do not have the flywheel housing level, ( and that is when the crank is ground on the center line correctly, it is dead center in the main babbitt between the main bolt holes, and the rear flange has been touched up ground, on the flywheel side, when the crank was still centered from the mains, grinding ) what happens is the Pilot shaft will run on a bind.

This can effect the pilot shaft bearing on the rear of the pilot shaft, transmission side, the pilot bearing on the front of the shaft, the clutch plate, smoothness of clutch operation, stressing the flywheel housing, and could be one cause for cracks in the housing. One big problem is premature wear on the rear main bearing babbitt, also transmission shifting problems.

Having a leveled flywheel housing is just as important as any good job done on an engine rebuild.

Yup, there are many out there with wrong piston clearance, bent rods, crank center lines off, valves ground to low in the blocks, wore out clutches, ect. and out of square, flywheel housings.

But, be assured, they will not run as good, or as long an a engine built correctly.

Thanks,

Herm.

[Ruth]

Thanks for the explanation Herm.

[Terry, NJ]

Yes! Thanks for the explanation! You may have answered one nagging question I have. My Coupe! It was fine, then little by little, it started jumping out of 3rd gear. Rebuilt the tower and it worked better, but still jumped now and then and it was getting worse as time went by. So I took the trans out and rebuilt it. Paying attention to the pilot/input shaft. I acquired one that was practically new, put it all together and it's been working fine. The I did the rear end. I then took the opportunity to remove the trans and indicate the FW cover. I was out .006, Tried a shim and it fell out and I said ah screw it! .006 is just within tolerance. Shouid I have brought it in closer? Is this the cause of the wear on my input shaft? When I got the car, there was NO .010 shims at the top of the motor. could this have caused the wear on the input shaft. Since warpage is a factor, would it pay to have FW housings cleaned/trued up on a Blanchard?
Terry

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Yes! Thanks for the explanation! You may have answered one nagging question I have. My Coupe! It was fine, then little by little, it started jumping out of 3rd gear. Rebuilt the tower and it worked better, but still jumped now and then and it was getting worse as time went by. So I took the trans out and rebuilt it. Paying attention to the pilot/input shaft. I acquired one that was practically new, put it all together and it's been working fine. The I did the rear end. I then took the opportunity to remove the trans and indicate the FW cover. I was out .006, Tried a shim and it fell out and I said ah screw it! .006 is just within tolerance. Shouid I have brought it in closer? Is this the cause of the wear on my input shaft? When I got the car, there was NO .010 shims at the top of the motor. could this have caused the wear on the input shaft. Since warpage is a factor, would it pay to have FW housings cleaned/trued up on a Blanchard?
Terry

Should I have brought it in closer? " END QUOTE "

Closer, the better.

could this have caused the wear on the input shaft. " END QUOTE "

It could have been one of them, but .006 is close, if that is what it truly was.

Since warpage is a factor, would it pay to have FW housings cleaned/trued up on a Blanchard? " END QUOTE "

I don't think it would do any good. I have put repro's on, and there wasn't any difference in shimming at all. Also if you were to surface a housing on both sides, that would move the pilot shaft ahead, and I don't know how much room you have between the end of the pilot shaft and the crank shaft, and the pilot shaft and the pilot bearing, and that also goes for the clutch disk.

Thanks,

Herm.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Aren't the shims there, to compensate for the thickness of the gasket around the rear of the camshaft??
Bill W.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Aren't the shims there, to compensate for the thickness of the gasket around the rear of the camshaft??
Bill W.

It was when every thing was new, Bill. But every thing now is so warped, that putting in .010, and leaving it, without checking level, is very dangerous. I am not saying that their aren't some out there that won't work that way, but maybe, I just got all the 500 bad ones.

I did find one about 10 years that bolted right to the block, that was Zero, and would take no shims at all. It also had a thin gasket.

I always have used Indian Head Gasket cement, on every gasket ( never any leaks, even on head bolt threads, that go into a water jacket. It seals, and the bolts don't seam the rust in, so they don't break when you want them out.