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Old 12-12-2019, 10:05 AM   #21
Ian1932
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Ian, I've been watching this and want to offer my congratulations on your resistance to becoming a "1-800-HOT-RODDER". This hobby has always been about individuals out in their shops, modifying their cars they way they thought best. These days, we have the additional advantage of boards like this that we can come to for advice for sticky situations. I think you have received some good advice here about pedal placement, mechanical advantage etc. In your case, I am of the opinion that this is something that you will be able to handle by yourself, especially with the advice of people who have gone through this before. Go for it.

Oh yeah, the first time I heard "Early V8 Garage" in the context of this thread, one word went through my mind. That word was "Expensive".
Thanks! I do get a satisfaction out of doing it "myself". It feels get to just make something yourself and it be a success. A lot of tips great ideas on here to learn from. Nothing better than turning chicken poop into chicken soup yourself...Also, surely there are guys on here that have a bunch of money to spend, i am not one of those guys...lol. Thanks for the reassurance!
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:40 AM   #22
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Oh yeah, the first time I heard "Early V8 Garage" in the context of this thread, one word went through my mind. That word was "Expensive".

Anyone that is familiar with and has followed Dennis and Richard Lacy's creations and methods over the years at the Early V8 Garage has to be impressed with everything they offer, including top-notch advice. Their approach to gettin' these old Fords stopped is actually pretty simplistic, yet accomplished in "top shelf" fashion from start to finish. Although I have no first-hand experience with any of their offerings, I too have heard that their kits are "rather pricey".


You're doing good, Ian. With your obvious drive, your need for accomplishment and your open-minded attitude, you're well on your way toward a "first rate" braking system. DD
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:45 AM   #23
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Just to be clear on my side . . . I'm not telling you to go spend thousands on a complete kit from Early V8 Garage. BUT - you might learn a few things in seeing what he has to offer. You might buy some parts from him, make some of your own, etc.. The exploration can be worth the time - as my guess is that you'll learn something of value and it might change your design. That's all . . .
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:24 AM   #24
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Just to be clear on my side . . . I'm not telling you to go spend thousands on a complete kit from Early V8 Garage. BUT - you might learn a few things in seeing what he has to offer. You might buy some parts from him, make some of your own, etc.. The exploration can be worth the time - as my guess is that you'll learn something of value and it might change your design. That's all . . .
I understand. I see what your saying. I just feel guilty picking their brains and calling or requesting information without any intentions of buying...Or just getting their info and copying it. I did see a few of their products and they are thought out very nicely! Im sure they put a ton of time and research into their products!
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:34 AM   #25
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

These are my thoughts as well.
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:58 AM   #26
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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I understand. I see what your saying. I just feel guilty picking their brains and calling or requesting information without any intentions of buying...Or just getting their info and copying it. I did see a few of their products and they are thought out very nicely! Im sure they put a ton of time and research into their products!
That is honorable . . . if you plan to buy nothing from them (appreciate the honesty), then I greatly respect your decision.

After all, us car-guys have been coming up with solutions to problems like this for as long as cars have had wheels - and I much appreciate all the various solutions that we come up to address the problems/challenges of our various builds. If I hadn't had to solve a lot of these problems myself (to not only learn, but also try to keep to a budget) - I wouldn't know a damn thing about these cars!

Keep after it - you're doing great work!
B&S
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Old 12-12-2019, 11:59 AM   #27
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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I understand. I see what your saying. I just feel guilty picking their brains and calling or requesting information without any intentions of buying...Or just getting their info and copying it. I did see a few of their products and they are thought out very nicely! Im sure they put a ton of time and research into their products!

Ian...You're 90% there with the pedals and pedal bracket that you already have. With those pieces bolted in place, and figuring the dimensions on your newly-modified bracket to place the M/C pushrod just low enough to clear the crossmember, you should be able to calculate the dimensions (YOUR calculations) for a SIMILAR bellcrank and cross-shaft shown in the following picture. I wouldn't feel in the least guilty about going forward with that general idea. DD


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Old 12-12-2019, 12:37 PM   #28
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Ian...You're 90% there with the pedals and pedal bracket that you already have. With those pieces bolted in place, and figuring the dimensions on your newly-modified bracket to place the M/C pushrod just low enough to clear the crossmember, you should be able to calculate the dimensions (YOUR calculations) for a SIMILAR bellcrank and cross-shaft shown in the following picture. I wouldn't feel in the least guilty about going forward with that general idea. DD


Thanks! Im going to weld up my bracket the rest of the way tonight. This weekend ill brainstorm with some pcs of wood and see what happens...I think i can whip something up that will work...Thanks for the help! Everyone else, thanks for your help too!
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Old 12-12-2019, 01:57 PM   #29
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Hi Guys,


The new revised bracket in post #19 is still not going to do it. I have an idea that is easier than what I did and will sketch something up this afternoon.


Glenn
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Hi Guys,


The new revised bracket in post #19 is still not going to do it. I have an idea that is easier than what I did and will sketch something up this afternoon.


Glenn
Glenn, why wont it work? It will be really close to the bottom of the frame...
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:10 PM   #31
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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The new revised bracket in post #19 is still not going to do it. I have an idea that is easier than what I did and will sketch something up this afternoon.
Glenn

Ian...Glenn is right! This getting way more complicated than necessary. ALL that you need is to fabricate a simple, flat 3/8" plate SIMILAR in concept to the one in this picture. Check-out the other pics for the generic details. Kiss, kiss, KISS! DD


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Old 12-12-2019, 02:21 PM   #32
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Ian...Glenn is right! This getting way more complicated than necessary. ALL that you need is to fabricate a simple, flat 3/8" plate SIMILAR in concept to the one in this picture. Check-out the other pics for the generic details. Kiss, kiss, KISS! DD


Your picture doesnt show up...But whats the difference if its a plate or a bracket?
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Old 12-12-2019, 03:04 PM   #33
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Your picture doesnt show up...But whats the difference if its a plate or a bracket?

You bring-up an interesting point. I went back and looked at your original pictures. Your bracket is bolted to the lower, horizontal flange on the crossmember. Yes, to bolt it to that surface, a bracket like yours would be necessary. Click that link I sent and go back and study those pictures. He bolted his simple, flat plate directly to the stronger, and probably less-flexible VERTICAL surface on the crossmember. It doesn't get any simpler than a flat plate. When you look at those pictures again, you'll note that one of the M/C attach bolts has a countersunk head where it fits against the flat surface of the crossmember. The thickness of the 3/8" plate makes it possible to countersink for that bolt. Pretty slick set-up! DD
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Old 12-12-2019, 03:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Okay, here you go:


- This uses (5) existing center-section bolt hole in the vertical section
- Make sure that you allow for a bolt hole, probably 9/16" diameter hole, for the motor steady rod on this side!
- The scheme is similar to Ralph's, https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...34&postcount=3 but note that there is no hole for the steady rod!
- Insert long enough grade 8 bolts front to back
- Tighten and torque the spacer plate with nuts that have the permanent red Loctite on them. Lock washers may be good too. You don't want theses bolts and nuts to be able to turn. This way you can tighten and remove the master cylinder plate during and after the installation. a 3/8" air racket is good here for its "impact" properties. The bolts are buried later so this allows everything to be removed from the back.
- The top two master cylinder bolt heads , especially the inboard one, are going to be right on or just below the center section bottom bump out. This location will give you a level push-rod that clears the front lip of the center section.
- Mount the master cylinder to its plate and then slip over the protruding bolts of the center section and install retaining nuts.
- The plate should be 4" wide in case you decide to switch out to another master cylinder later, like a two bowl type. Many of these only have a two bolt flange on them.


I also want to note that the tightest clearance for the push rod is the clevis for it on the front end where it attaches to the brake pedal MC bracket , a plate welded onto the original brake pedal arm.



Glenn
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File Type: pdf 32 Ford MC Bracket.pdf (30.1 KB, 16 views)

Last edited by glennpm; 12-12-2019 at 04:23 PM. Reason: added detail about keeping bolts from spinning and clevis interference
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Old 12-12-2019, 03:22 PM   #35
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

PS This is what I did. The 2" X 4" TS has a spacer plate welded on back. The two plate design is very stiff and easier to make.


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File Type: jpg DSCN3537.jpg (30.8 KB, 35 views)
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:31 PM   #36
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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PS This is what I did. The 2" X 4" TS has a spacer plate welded on back. The two plate design is very stiff and easier to make.


Glenn
Glenn, will my bracket not work or are you saying its easier to use a plate? You guys are sayin it still wont work, but, not why? The push rod will be really close to cross member? Thanks!
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Ian, if the heads on the nuts are like in my sketch, right at and on the bump for the inboard one, then you're okay. From your pictures or the perspective of it, the rod centerline looks low
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:20 PM   #38
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Glenn, will my bracket not work or are you saying its easier to use a plate? You guys are sayin it still wont work, but, not why? The push rod will be really close to cross member? Thanks!

Coop here...Like I tried to say above, your bracket will work if bolted to the bottom, horizontal lip on the crossmember. BUT...there's nothing reinforcing that thin lip and I'm afraid that every time you step on the brake pedal, that lip and your bracket, along with the M/C, are going to flex. A simple, flat plate bolted to the much-more-substantial vertical part of the crossmember ain't gonna flex for nothing! Super nice bracket you built for sure, but a flat plate is a much smarter choice.


NICE drawing, Glenn! DD
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:34 PM   #39
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Thanks DD!
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:04 AM   #40
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Ok. Ill try and mess with this over the weekend and see what i can do. Thanks for your input. Not sure exactly what im going to do but ill have figured soon enough...
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