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Old 12-09-2019, 07:26 PM   #1
Ian1932
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Default Master Cylinder Bracket

I made 2 thinking one would be nicer but they both look good. If anyone wants to try the the other let me know. I think it will work nice. All i need to do now is weld a lever on the brake pedal. Does anyone know how far the brake pedal will be from the back of the hole where the foot pad mounts to the lower sheet metal of the firewall? Im trying to find a some what of the neutral position of the pedal so i weld the lever in a good spot. I can the made final adjustments with the linkage i think.
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Last edited by Ian1932; 12-09-2019 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Originally Posted by Ian1932 View Post
I made 2 thinking one would be nicer but they both look good. If anyone wants to try the the other let me know. I think it will work nice. All i need to do now is weld a lever on the brake pedal. Does anyone know how far the brake pedal will be from the back of the hole where the foot pad mounts to the lower sheet metal of the firewall? Im trying to find a some what of the neutral position of the pedal so i weld the lever in a good spot. I can the made final adjustments with the linkage i think.
Wish I had done mine that way
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:42 AM   #3
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

I would say to weld the new lever to the pedal boss pretty much 180 from the old position. (I made up a new pedal out of 3/8" steel plate for my brother's '32 just 'cause I don't trust a weld in that piece.)
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Old 12-10-2019, 10:42 AM   #4
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

You might want to checkout what Early Ford V8 Garage - supplies. I like Dennis Lacy's approach of the creation of a new clutch/brake pedal shaft (longer than stock), which he then hangs a pivot arm off of. His kit requires NO welding on your original pedals and also tucks the master cylinder up a bit higher than yours does. I highly recommend their products - are about the best engineered, highest quality stuff you can buy - period. Also, he is probably one of the most knowledgeable guys on our early Ford hydraulic brakes and conversions:

http://www.earlyv8garage.net/

I installed his complete kit on my 32 Cabriolet - didn't have to drill a single hole, didn't have to weld on anything . . . just perfection from one end to the other.
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Old 12-10-2019, 10:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked View Post
You might want to checkout what Early Ford V8 Garage - supplies. I like Dennis Lacy's approach of the creation of a new clutch/brake pedal shaft (longer than stock), which he then hangs a pivot arm off of. His kit requires NO welding on your original pedals and also tucks the master cylinder up a bit higher than yours does. I highly recommend their products - are about the best engineered, highest quality stuff you can buy - period. Also, he is probably one of the most knowledgeable guys on our early Ford hydraulic brakes and conversions:

http://www.earlyv8garage.net/

I installed his complete kit on my 32 Cabriolet - didn't have to drill a single hole, didn't have to weld on anything . . . just perfection from one end to the other.
How much did it cost? Thanks
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Old 12-10-2019, 08:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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How much did it cost? Thanks
They have a whole range of parts and services related to putting hydraulic brakes on a 32 - 34 Ford. Given the wide range of options and associated prices, the best thing is to contract Dennis Lacy - he can walk you through the many ways he can support a project. Also, he has complete price lists - which he'll probably send you a paper copy.

Good luck!
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Old 12-10-2019, 08:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Slick set up; well done!
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:26 PM   #8
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

The bracket fab looks good but you have the master cylinder too low. You want to get the push rod as close to the bottom of the frame as possible so that your lever arm ratio to actuating arm is as high as possible. Stock ratios are around 6 but even with the rod close to the frame, you can't get that, probably around 4+.


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Old 12-11-2019, 01:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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The bracket fab looks good but you have the master cylinder too low. You want to get the push rod as close to the bottom of the frame as possible so that your lever arm ratio to actuating arm is as high as possible. Stock ratios are around 6 but even with the rod close to the frame, you can't get that, probably around 4+.


Glenn
Glenn, what will this do? Will it make the pedal travel to far? I saw several pics of the same master mounted in the same place. I believe you i just dont understand what will happen. Thanks for your input!
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Glenn is correct above in Post #8. You must maintain the pedal arm vs pushrod lever LENGTH ratio at something like 6 to 1 or even higher numerically (like 7 to 1) because anything less will make it nearly impossible to apply enough force to the pedal to get the car stopped. One other factor to consider...the pushrod that pushes on the M/C piston should push straight-into, or parallel with piston travel. If the pushrod pushes on the piston at an angle, the hydraulic seal at rear of M/C will end-up damaged (and leaking) in very short order. DD
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Glenn is correct above in Post #8. You must maintain the pedal arm vs pushrod lever LENGTH ratio at something like 6 to 1 or even higher numerically (like 7 to 1) because anything less will make it nearly impossible to apply enough force to the pedal to get the car stopped. One other factor to consider...the pushrod that pushes on the M/C piston should push straight-into, or parallel with piston travel. If the pushrod pushes on the piston at an angle, the hydraulic seal at rear of M/C will end-up damaged (and leaking) in very short order. DD
Crap...I guess i can cut it apart and move up the MC mounting plate. The bracket i made is long enough to where the MC can sorta go up behind the cross member a little bit.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Ian...The bracket you made looked beautiful, "workmanship-wise". But physics is physics, and stuff needs to be dimensionally and geographically compatible. It would be great if you could get the M/C directly behind, and in line with the pushrod hole in the un-altered pedal lever. DD
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Ian...Before you go any farther, click on the link below, scroll down a little and look at the pictures. This M/C location looks fairly close to yours. The '32 in the pictures belongs to Dennis Lacy of The Early V8 Garage. Dennis and his dad engineer, build and sell these hydraulic brake conversion kits THAT WORK. Maybe you can get some ideas from the many detailed pictures of Dennis' own personal truck with their product installed. Maybe it's your pedal location that makes your bracket/situation look questionable. Just MAYBE, you're on the right track and I just can't see it from the limited pictures you've posted. Check out the link BELOW! DD


https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...#post-11039172
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Hi,


Yes, its all about mechanical advantage by having a longer lever, same as grabbing a breaker bar when you racket wrench just doesn't do it ;-)

I posted this link to a pickup project that Dennis Lacy posted on the HAMB a couple of years ago. I came across this a week or so back and posted in response to your other thread on master cylinder mounting. It is a great post he made.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...17&postcount=8

In Dennis kit and the link in the above message, you'll note that his brake lever arm is long so he uses a smaller bore master cylinder. The travel of your foot pedal will be greater but much easier to brake.

Here are a couple of useful links I just found on Google:

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2014/...der-bore-size/

https://www.markwilliams.com/braketech.html

I'd either buy Dennis' kit or move your master cylinder up. Maybe look into a 7/8" bore cylinder too although I have a 4-1/3 ratio and have no problem pushing the pedal or in the braking action.

Hey, better to find this out now instead of being disappointed later not counting the rework.

Glenn

Last edited by glennpm; 12-11-2019 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 12-11-2019, 03:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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Hi,


Yes, its all about mechanical advantage by having a longer lever.....

I'd either buy Dennis' kit or move your master cylinder up. Maybe look into a 7/8" bore cylinder too although I have a 4-1/3 ratio and have no problem pushing the pedal or in the braking action.

Glenn

A couple of things, Glenn....you obviously DO know something about brake theory and physics. But, to be sure that Ian or anyone else is on the same page, there's BETTER mechanical advantage when the FOOT lever is longer, and/or the M/C rod actuating lever is SHORTER.


And yes, going with a SMALLER bore M/C will lessen the necessary pedal effort, but the pedal will need to stroke farther, and it's possible (when decreasing the bore of the M/C) to reach a point that there is not enough stroke in the M/C to supply the volume of fluid needed to fully apply the brakes. Just some things to be aware of. DD
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Yes, I completely agree with you. Getting the highest ratio of (brake arm length)/(actuating lever length) is most important.

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Old 12-11-2019, 10:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

So . . . after all this discussion . . . I still say . . . talk to Dennis Lacy. You'll be glad you did. Why - because it ALL matters . . . the mechanical ratios, the master cylinder bore size, the wheel cylinder sizes, the design fo the brake systems, etc..

It is always about the combination of parts - not any one single part.
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:20 AM   #18
Ian1932
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

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So . . . after all this discussion . . . I still say . . . talk to Dennis Lacy. You'll be glad you did. Why - because it ALL matters . . . the mechanical ratios, the master cylinder bore size, the wheel cylinder sizes, the design fo the brake systems, etc..

It is always about the combination of parts - not any one single part.

Trust me, i would to love to buy that setup. Im sure its at-least $1000. I just dont have the money right now to spend. If i did spend it, it would be irresponsible of me. Im going to mess around and see if i can make it work...Im sure those guys have an excellent product though, this i dont doubt!
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:29 AM   #19
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Genn & V8COOPMAN, I cut my bracket apart. I just tack welded it back together. I moved the face plate all the way up to where the hex of the MC bolt heads will just rest on the top plate where it mounts to bottom of the frame. This pushes the MC really close to the bottom of the K member. This should be ok right? I moved up about 1-3/8". Thanks for your help! Input is helping me greatly!
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Old 12-12-2019, 01:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: Master Cylinder Bracket

Hi Guys,


The new revised bracket in post #19 is still not going to do it. I have an idea that is easier than what I did and will sketch something up this afternoon.


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