transmission floor cover

[FrankWest]

1933 model B transmission floor cover
The large cutout red arrows expose holes in floor.
Is this a result of v8 frame being used in model B car?
What were these cutouts used for.

[DavidG]

The cutouts provide access to the heads of the special screws attaching the engine steady rods to the frame cross member. Both fours and V8s used the rods (they're different lengths) and both the four-cylinder and V8 transmission floor covers have the cutouts.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by DavidG

The cutouts provide access to the heads of the special screws attaching the engine steady rods to the frame cross member. Both fours and V8s used the rods (they're different lengths) and both the four-cylinder and V8 transmission floor covers have the cutouts.

ThaNKS.
i TOOK THE TRANs cover off and can see the steady rods. I have a question, not that I am going to remove them, but what king of a wrench is needed to removed, the bolt has an indentation in its head, or maybe I have a hole in my head. funny the left side steady rod bolt is i inch higher than the right side bolt?
Nothing seems loose. I will get a photo later.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

ThaNKS.
i TOOK THE TRANs cover off and can see the steady rods. I have a question, not that I am going to remove them, but what king of a wrench is needed to removed, the bolt has an indentation in its head, or maybe I have a hole in my head. funny the left side steady rod bolt is i inch higher than the right side bolt?
Nothing seems loose. I will get a photo later.

This seems to be a tool to use But why is left side approx 1 in higher than right side?
Maybe defective? the left side screw is almost level with the transmission cove, The right screw is approx 1 inch below the cover?

[DavidG]

It could be the bolt head is not as well formed or has corroded over time or the depression the frame cross member is deeper on one side. Or since the ''33-'34 special bolts are not threaded into the rods but rather are held in place with a hex nut and lock washer underneath, one might be missing its nut and washer.

[FrankWest]

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Thanks a million. It is very satisfying to try to make the parts as right as I can.
Thanks for all your help.

[FrankWest]

The end of the steady rods under the floor, the bolt goes thru the end of the rod but does that bolt just connect to the steel floor hole ?

[DavidG]

The bolt head seats in a pressed-in countersunk hole in the chassis frame.

[FrankWest]

Thanks, I got to get underneath to see what has happened to the right side.

[V8COOPMAN]

This is not a '33, but the pic should give you an idea how the rods attach to the frame. DD

[FrankWest]

I hope I can clean up my originals, seems that it is hard to find replacements?

[FrankWest]

Looked under my car see crude drawing. The chassis has a cutout, u shaped not a hole and the steady rod attachment bolt slipped out and is 1 inch below the cutout.
Is this cut out right? and not a hole. Maybe the screw head has worn away? will check.

[FlatheadTed]

Should be a countersunk hole Frank ,also you can use a countersunk Cap screw with a Alen key ,almost identical ,

[FrankWest]

So what I have is defective. Metal worn away from the hole, that is why the screw head dropped out.

[FlatheadTed]

Yes ! looks like it ,build it up with weld or form a 1/8 metal plate or washer with a ball peen hammer and weld it on ,

[FrankWest]

he is a silly question.
Is the engine threaded to take to steady rod? Or does it just slide in the hole and the nut on the end is tightened to hole it in place?

[Angledrive]

Just slides

[FrankWest]

Is there any trick to getting the rod out. Under floor cross beam won't allow room to pull rod out. Should rod be removed from above the floor? Seems very rigid?

[DavidG]

Why do you want to remove the rod(s)? With a four such as you have the only way you can remove the rods is pull the engine forward, which is a big deal.

[FrankWest]

Thanks for saving me from trying to do something that cannot be done. I really appreciate it.
These things are really put together tight. Makes one really appreciate all the wrk that went into designing these cars.
Ok, I only wanted to get the nut off, I would never want to remove the engine. I will try some heat maybe that will loosen the nut.Or I may have can cut it off. Someone used a castle nut on here anyway. These things are really put together tight.

[DavidG]

Castle nuts were used on the front end of the steady rods along with a cotter pin until they were replaced with slotted hex nuts (still with cotter pins) as a running change during the '33 model year. On the back of the rod, hex nuts and lock washers were used.

[rich b]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

Looked under my car see crude drawing. The chassis has a cutout, u shaped not a hole and the steady rod attachment bolt slipped out and is 1 inch below the cutout.
Is this cut out right? and not a hole. Maybe the screw head has worn away? will check.

I've seen more than few frames where the recessed stamped hole has cracked out of the frame, much as you describe the "U" shaped cutout.

[FrankWest]

Can a arc welded bead be used as a repair or should I weld a steel washer in place?

[DavidG]

A countersunk washer would be required and it would leave the bolt higher than original, which depending on the thickness of the washer might be high enough to leave little or no threads for the hex nut after allowing for the thickness of a lock washer (on the bottom end of the special bolt).

[JSeery]

Might see if someone has a damage frame that has that area salvageable.

[FrankWest]

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Originally Posted by JSeery

Might see if someone has a damage frame that has that area salvageable.

Good idea, but how much of the car would have to be taken apart to gain access? My car has the stamped steel floor, how would that be removed? I imagine it would be easier to gain access if I had the wooden floor boards. Can you just remove the floor without disturbing everything else?

[DavidG]

The part of the floor immediately adjacent to where the rod is attached is an integral part of the body and not removable separately. No North American '33 or '34 has a wood floor board in the area in question.

[FlatheadTed]

Weld underneath up on a hoist or cut the floor ether side of the hole and peal the floor back then get a competent welder to tig /mig /gas it back

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

Weld underneath up on a hoist or cut the floor ether side of the hole and peal the floor back then get a competent welder to tig /mig /gas it back

What Ted said. Wouldn't think it would be any more difficult than any other attempted fix in that area.

[FlatheadTed]

Reforming the counter sunk bit will be a exercise but as you say a doner chassis would help, A perch bolt nut has a pyramid shape to it could it be cut down and welded facing down to the chassis wouldn't be original but ,just something to think about ,

[FrankWest]

Finally got the castle nut off. I will try to remove the bolt. Is this end of the steady rod threaded for the bolt. or is it just a plain hole. It looks like a plain hole. The bolt was just stuck. Finally got is out The missing part of the cross member is attached to the screw head?
Soaking the thing in MMO. If the missing part of the cross member fits like a jig saw puzzle piece, Maybe I can just weld a bead along its borders?

[FrankWest]

Here are photos of bolt, nut and broken off jigsaw piece of cross member. The cross member piece has retained it;s thickness, look like it juts sheared off?

[DavidG]

Obviously that has been apart previously, as a plain hex nut and lock washer was used originally. Can't tell for sure from your photo, but the nut there looks to be a thread chaser and not the nut used on the bolt to hold it in place.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Obviously that has been apart previously, as a plain hex nut and lock washer was used originally. Can't tell for sure from your photo, but the nut there looks to be a thread chaser and not the nut used on the bolt to hold it in place.

That is true. But what would have caused an entire section to be sheared off.
The piece fit perfectly into the section in my car. The piece is thick metal.
Maybe excessive engine vibration?
Anyway, I will put the piece in place and arc weld a nice bead along each joint. Chip and also grind down if needed. No need for any washers here. Will see how it holds up.
Thanks for your help

[FlatheadTed]

I would try and reinforce it by maybe welding it first to a square 3/16 section (stamping ),with a hole in it , doesn't matter if it sits lower than stock ,

[FrankWest]

Good idea. I'm surprised the original metal sheared off? My car seemed to run fine without this rod attached, because I remember seeing that strange hole when I was treating the metal floor and then painting it. Oh well, maybe the design was redundant and operates fine as long as there is at least one rod present.

[DavidG]

Don't be too cavalier. The rods have a purpose. Should you not repair the broken side, if the other side gave way you might end up with the fan kissing the radiator, which is highly undesirable.

[FrankWest]

I will definitely will fix the right side. I knew the front of the engine is held by the two pads, but I often wondered what is holding the rear? I always just figured it was supported by the transmission?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I will definitely will fix the right side. I knew the front of the engine is held by the two pads, but I often wondered what is holding the rear? I always just figured it was supported by the transmission?

You're correct...the rear is supported (up and down) by the transmission, but as David G suggests above, those rods are what keeps the torque tube from pushing the engine/trans assembly forward (into the radiator) on those mushy, stock rubber mounts. DD

[Lawrie]

They are what pushes the car along.
Lawrie

[FrankWest]

I plan to use MIG welding to repair frame. Thanks for your help.

[FrankWest]

I welded the broken piece back in. Looks good. The steady rod screw fits great/flush with the cross member. Do you recommend a thin rubber washer or something between the counter sunk bolt head and the floor? Or Should it be just metal on metal?

[Terry,OH]

the head of the bolt to the floor or do you mean to say the head of the bolt and the frame? If so there is nothing between the head of the bolt and the frame Do use a lockwasher next to the attachment nut on the special bolt.

[FrankWest]

Yes, I mean the frame. Should I use a standard lock washer or a star type conical lock washer...this type was sent to me by southside obsolute parts.

[Terry,OH]

The attachment bolt uses a split type lock washer, just above the nut. The conical lock washer was used on later production. 34 was the last year to use a nut to attach the rod to the frame. In 35 the special attachment bolt threaded directly into the rod, so a nut was not necessary. They then used the conical lockwasher under the head of the special bolt, to hold it in place.

[FrankWest]

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thanks for the details, so I should just go with the standard split washer for my 1933.