Model B engine, 28 model A.....change carb from Tillotson to Zenith?

[Eccentric Old Guy]

I have a 28 model A pickup with a model B engine w/Tillotson carburetor.

After watching this video:

https://youtu.be/U588Zq2N_HM

.....I'm considering possibly getting an original Zenith carburetor, but I'm not sure this carburetor:

https://snydersantiqueauto.com/Produ...earchByKeyword

.....is the correct carburetor for the change-over back to original for this motor.
For those of you with experience here, please comment. Thanks

eog

[Bob C]

This would be the correct carb for the B engine.


Bob

[Gary WA]

Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy

I have a 28 model A pickup with a model B engine w/Tillotson carburetor.

After watching this video:

https://youtu.be/U588Zq2N_HM

.....I'm considering possibly getting an original Zenith carburetor, but I'm not sure this carburetor:

https://snydersantiqueauto.com/Produ...earchByKeyword

.....is the correct carburetor for the change-over back to original for this motor.
For those of you with experience here, please comment. Thanks

eog

Wow!! They like the price of that Zenith 1! Should be able to get a Zenith Rebuilt for around 200.00,Model B carb is the one you want as stated above.

[1930artdeco]

If you go back to regular zenith (not a bad carb), you will get better MPG, still have power. BUT, you will have watch the car as it will die on sudden stops due to float design (I just run a 1/4 open around town to fix that). A 'B' carb that goes to that engine with have more power, not die on sudden stops but not have the MPG. Also, you have a 'B' engine under the hood, so unless you are planning to drop in an A engine just leave her as is. If you want originality.


Mike

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Had the problem of stall at stop on one of the 2 Zeniths I have. Messed with it for a while. Gave up and sent it to a rebuilder who installed flow tested jets and restored/tested the carb. Issue resolved.


My opinion, opinions vary, a restored and correctly set up Zenith does not stall at stop. If you continue to have stall at stop you may have other issues like an Intake manifold leak, ignition issue, etc.

[Ak Sourdough]

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My dad was a mechanic at the Ford dealership in Sioux Falls in the mid 30's. Sadly, we lost him to cancer 3 years ago at 100 years old. Anyway, he had nothing good to say about Zenith carburetors.



I asked him one time why he liked the Tillotsons, here is what he said.


"I must have thrown more than a hundred of them damned Zeniths in the trash can. By the time you bought a kit and paid the mechanic to put it in, it was cheaper to put on a new carb. Plus a new carburetor had a nice tight throttle shaft. They only cost 3 or 4 dollars and there was only a few cents difference in the prices of Zenith and Tillotsons. Some people insisted on having an original carb, so the parts room always stocked a couple of them, but they usually had 8 or 10 Tillotsons on the shelf."
" A new Tillotson would start easier, idle smoother and make more power than a new Zenith. It wasn't uncommon for a customer to insist on an original Zenith on his car, 'cause that's the way Mr. Ford built them. Then he'd often be back in a couple days complaining that it still didn't run right. We'd put a new Tillotson on for him and that was the end of his complaints."


That's all I know about the Zenith carbs, but my old pop was adamant about the superiority of the Tillotsons from personal experience and that's good enough for me.

[JD 1931]

Built correctly they don’t stall, have built hundreds...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eccentric Old Guy]

After watching the video I linked to in the original post, I noticed how easily the gas line was removed on the Tillotson carb. My gas line is extremely hard to remove and install, and I'm now suspecting I have a carb that was cross-threaded on the gas line at one time......although this is not where the leak is now. I've taken that Tillotson off a couple times and tried to fix the internal leak.....with no improvement.

I could just as easily buy a new Tillotson from Macs, at the same price as the new Zenith from Snyders.

I've also been offered a rebuilt Zenith for about half of what a new one would cost.....

I'm just not sure what I will do here .......but, I did order a Tillotson rebuild kit about a week ago.....which hasn't come yet.

eog

[JD 1931]

Tillison carbs sometimes warp causing leaks, made from pot metal...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by JD 1931

Tillison carbs sometimes warp causing leaks, made from pot metal...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I watched this video, and that's what the guy was saying. I haven't checked mine yet, but I'll be sure to do that next time I remove it. The intake flange can be made flat, though.......

https://youtu.be/-wBALe0MUgs

eog

[31a]

I have a B engine in my 30 CC pickup you cannot get the maximum performance out of the B carb without changing to a B intake manifold or having the A intake honed out to match the ID of the B card. The performance of the B setup is very noticeable especially in the light pickup.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by JD 1931

Built correctly they don’t stall, have built hundreds...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

100% correct. Mine idles nicely, never stalls at a stop and gives good economy. Power is quite adequate. What more could you want?

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

If you go back to regular zenith (not a bad carb), you will get better MPG, still have power. BUT, you will have watch the car as it will die on sudden stops due to float design.
Mike

Originally Posted by JD 1931

Built correctly they don’t stall, have built hundreds...

Thank you, JD. Mine never stalls on hard braking.

[Joe K]

Original is nice - but you've already violated the first rule of originality by having a "B" engine.

I would use what is handy - make it run the best you can - and have fun doing it.

And you ALWAYS want a spare carburetor under the seat. Clean it out with Brakeclean and dry thoroughly before Zip-Bagging it and placement under the seat. As long as you carry it, you'll NEVER have carburetor problems. (The "bring an umbrella and it never rains" effect)

I've run both Zenith and Tillotson X. At that time I preferred the Tilly over the Zenith - but since then I've learned a lot more about Zenith and see that it can be even further "tinkered" with to optimize performance. Mostly on the Tillys there hasn't been much need - or interest - and a lot less documentation of cause/effect. That "original" thing.

I'm into Moller's book right now trying to mate a Zenith 2 bottom to a Holly single venturi top. At that point of production it seems differences between carburetor sources had been resolved and parts SHOULD interchange mix-match. Just another carburetor for Model A 3.2.

Joe K

[Flathead]

Originally Posted by Ak Sourdough

My dad was a mechanic at the Ford dealership in Sioux Falls in the mid 30's. Sadly, we lost him to cancer 3 years ago at 100 years old. Anyway, he had nothing good to say about Zenith carburetors.



I asked him one time why he liked the Tillotsons, here is what he said.


"I must have thrown more than a hundred of them damned Zeniths in the trash can. By the time you bought a kit and paid the mechanic to put it in, it was cheaper to put on a new carb. Plus a new carburetor had a nice tight throttle shaft. They only cost 3 or 4 dollars and there was only a few cents difference in the prices of Zenith and Tillotsons. Some people insisted on having an original carb, so the parts room always stocked a couple of them, but they usually had 8 or 10 Tillotsons on the shelf."
" A new Tillotson would start easier, idle smoother and make more power than a new Zenith. It wasn't uncommon for a customer to insist on an original Zenith on his car, 'cause that's the way Mr. Ford built them. Then he'd often be back in a couple days complaining that it still didn't run right. We'd put a new Tillotson on for him and that was the end of his complaints."


That's all I know about the Zenith carbs, but my old pop was adamant about the superiority of the Tillotsons from personal experience and that's good enough for me.

Do you know which style of Tillotson he liked or just Tillys in general? I ask because I never hear anything about the F1-B style from "back in the day".
They seem to be kind of the red headed stepchild. Thanks

[katy]

After watching the video I linked to in the original post, I noticed how easily the gas line was removed on the Tillotson carb. My gas line is extremely hard to remove and install,

Part of that may be the inline fuel filter w/flexible connected tubing allowing some flex at the connection to the carburetor.

[Purdy Swoft]

The Tillotson model X is the popular model . They usually run good until the flange where it connects to the intake manifold warps and causes vacume leaks . The usual cause is over tightening the two 5/16 bolts that connect the carburetor to the manifold . I have always preferred Zenith carburetors to the pot metal Tillotson or any other pot metal carb. . Pot metal is a poor substitute for cast iron .

The problems in the past with rebuilding Zenith carburetors was that a lot of the jets that were offered was not correct jet size . I always tried to use original numbered jets . Original jets are hard to find . They tell me that Renners offers correct jets .

For more speed and power , the model B Zenith is my choice .

[Joe K]

Moller in his book "Model A Carburetors" reports Tillotson F1B "Not a successful design." He did react positively to the "step up" link and auxiliary chamber.

No other basis given than that. I can't say I've ever seen anyone running an F1B.

Joe K

[Ak Sourdough]

Originally Posted by Flathead

Do you know which style of Tillotson he liked or just Tillys in general? I ask because I never hear anything about the F1-B style from "back in the day".
They seem to be kind of the red headed stepchild. Thanks

Nope, all he said was Tillotson.

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Thank you for all these posts, gentlemen.......just received is a Tillotson rebuild kit from Brattons. If this doesn't work for me, then my plan is to get a Zenith........

EOG