03-08-2020, 11:16 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: La Porte, IN
Posts: 143
|
Cam Gear
Ok, I'm going to remove and replace the cam gear. I was looking at the Vendors catalog and some of them carry an "Over Sized" cam gear. .003 &.005 seem to be the most commen oversized gear. They also have a Standard gear. When would you use an oversized gear and how would you know to use one? Or should I just get the standard gear and go with that. The reason I'm replacing the gear is I had the engine overhauled 18 months ago, and the gear was replaced with a inferior one.
Last edited by fredski53; 03-08-2020 at 11:17 PM. Reason: Spelling |
03-08-2020, 11:42 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 6,340
|
Re: Cam Gear
Without know what the clearances are at the teeth we would not be able to suggest what size would be needed.
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! |
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
03-09-2020, 06:12 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 430
|
Re: Cam Gear
Was the crank gear replaced during the overhaul? How do you know current gear is inferior?
If it is running OK I'd leave it alone. |
03-09-2020, 08:10 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 4,188
|
Re: Cam Gear
Its most common to replace BOTH gears together. That way there is no question that both should be at 0.000 oversize.
Should you decide to "recycle" a crank gear, buy each oversize available and try the one starting with smallest for "least free play." Be sure to run it all the way around lest one gear or the other be a little off center and get to a rub spot. Usually this is the cam gear. In fiber/composite they're none too centered and the two pin mount/clamp collar is not conducive to centralization. And - if you do have a little "rub" - with the fiber it will wear down quickly. And - you likely have 0.002 "slop" in your cam bearing anyway. This is one of those if everything in the engine is not brought back to "spec" - then you're kind of into "trial fit & error" anyway. Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse. |
03-09-2020, 08:10 AM | #5 |
BANNED
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,196
|
Re: Cam Gear
I replace cam and crank gear as a set,tooth condition of the crank gear affects the cam gear life.Check backlash at four points 12,3,6 and 9 o'clock....004 to .006 with new gear.If engine has been rebuilt and line bored this dimension can change resulting in the need for an oversized gear.Metal gears can be noisy,cam plunger springs get weak.Crankshaft harmonic imbalance accentuates the issues.Ford used a fiber gear for quiet running and vibration tolerance.They are effective,the only drawback is they slowly degrade,altering cam timing slowly till the gear fails,the fiber sloughed off the gear finds its way to the oil pump screen and can cause engine failure.
|
03-09-2020, 09:12 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,425
|
Re: Cam Gear
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
|
03-09-2020, 10:18 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Largo Florida
Posts: 7,225
|
Re: Cam Gear
How much lash is there ? That may help determine the size. Anything over about .009" will make noise/rattle.
Like the others said, there are many variables involved. I think .003" is a good bet, just measure once installed to make sure. Ideally lash should be in the .004-.006" range. If I had to do it I'd use aluminum, but, now Snyder is offering a nylon gear available with 7º advance which sounds promising. |
03-09-2020, 11:33 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 5,848
|
Re: Cam Gear
|
03-09-2020, 11:49 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 6,340
|
Re: Cam Gear
The Model T is the only one I see. If I was going to replace the gear I would use ether laminated or metal. The macerated gear is chopped up short fibers/binder compressed to make the gear. (If you understand how paper is made, same thing) The laminated is layers of woven fabric/binder compressed. The laminated are more $'s but you are buying a better product. How to tell the difference; the laminated you can see the weave from the fabric the macerated is smooth a bit like paisley print gone wild.
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! Last edited by redmodelt; 03-09-2020 at 11:56 AM. |
03-09-2020, 02:21 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: La Porte, IN
Posts: 143
|
Re: Cam Gear
Ok, I guess I should have explained more! I had the engine completely overhauled 18 months ago by one of the Vendors that advertise in the Restorer. Ever since I installed the engine there has been a LOUD KNOCKING when I take my foot off gas pedal to slow down, that is when I hear a loud knocking! I talked to the engine builder and he keeps saying there is too much timing. I've adjusted the timing and the knock is still there. Now, last week at our club meeting, one member mentioned that he had this engine overhauled at the same place and he is having the same noise problem! He took off the inspection cover and there are teeth missing on the fiber cam gear! He called the builder and the builder said they had a bunch of problems with the cam gear they used a few years ago! Now, I haven't call the builder, im not really happy with the work that was done. I just want the engine to run properly. I'm going to remove the inspection cover and see what condition the cam gear is in. I thought I would order a replacement gear, but I didn't realize there are oversized cam gears! So, if the gear is damaged, I'll end up calling the builder anyway, and see what he recommends.
|
03-09-2020, 03:52 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Largo Florida
Posts: 7,225
|
Re: Cam Gear
|
03-09-2020, 03:59 PM | #12 |
BANNED
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 719
|
Re: Cam Gear
Ever since I installed the engine there has been a LOUD KNOCKING when I take my foot off gas pedal to slow down, that is when I hear a loud knocking
You would never get knocking from too much timing advance when you take your foot off the gas. However many people run way too much advance when driving. I run mine 28-30 degrees with the lever all the way down and that is plenty with todays fuels. |
03-09-2020, 04:46 PM | #13 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 4,188
|
Re: Cam Gear
Quote:
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/bdistributoradvance.htm Quote:
Fuels today are more "knock resistant" (higher octane) allowing one a greater advance without knock, but there is a "mechanics" to advance too which is irrespective of the fuel. One wants the fuel combustion to occur in a range where the engine can best use it. Just because it doesn't knock the head off doesn't mean you CAN do it - or want to. Joe K
__________________
Shudda kept the horse. |
||
03-09-2020, 09:30 PM | #14 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Chicago Burbs
Posts: 46
|
Re: Cam Gear
How do you guys feel about the fiber cam gears? What is the benefit? I feel it might be more quite, but that the wear would be premature, and only end up in the oil and the rest of the motor... Where a magnet on the belly of the pan, as well as the factor style "steel gear," your shavings will be heavier and would have a better chance of it collection in the belly of the pan.
Matt |
03-09-2020, 10:38 PM | #15 |
BANNED
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,196
|
Re: Cam Gear
|
03-10-2020, 12:30 AM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,969
|
Re: Cam Gear
|
03-10-2020, 11:10 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fountain Valley, Calif.
Posts: 937
|
Re: Cam Gear
I had a laminated gear installed several years ago and it has run perfectly, with no noise. I would not use the ordinary fiber gear......
|
03-11-2020, 08:22 AM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Largo Florida
Posts: 7,225
|
Re: Cam Gear
|
03-11-2020, 10:58 AM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8,099
|
Re: Cam Gear
I prefer metal cam gears and haven't noticed any noise as a result . I figure that the main reason that cam gears that aren't metal fail q is because of the use of a rag between the gears to lock them in place for installation . The rag puts a heavy strain on and weakens the cam gear teeth . I prefer to remove the side timing gear cover and use a C clamp to lock the gear against the side of the engine block . Using a rag between the gear teeth isn't nearly as good a method as I first thought .
|
03-11-2020, 05:07 PM | #20 |
BANNED
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,196
|
Re: Cam Gear
Had some chatter,removed the plunger spring and installed a set screw to make the plunger a thrust button,better but not happy..installed a harmonic balancer and all is good..I went with the 6 sided timing gear nut,just touch it with an impact wrench,off or on
|
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|