Toe-in Alignment tool

[AL in NY]

One of our older club members has one of those spring loaded toe-in gauge tools that has the small chains at each of the pointed ends. I don't know the manufacturer's name or model number. I am looking to find an instruction sheet for the use of this tool. Several other club members have tried to use this tool and they can't get repeatable readings with it. I tried the tool on my 30 CCPU which has had the front suspension and steering serviced and my readings are very repeatable. There seems to be a problem with the procedure and how to get the correct reading. Can anyone help clear this up????

[Patrick L.]

I think those gauges work pretty good. I'm wondering if there is an issue with the gauge such as rust, stickiness or a problem with the vehicle its used on. It doesn't take much to get a strange reading.

[Bob C]

Here's a link to information on Marco's site. http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/align.htm

[Jacksonlll]

They work pretty good.
Car on flat driveway. Roll car back about a car length, then back where you started.
Put tool in front of axle and at the height that lets the chains just touch the surface. Position the tool ends at the innermost side of the tire.
Zero the gage.
Roll the car forward until the chains just touch the surface rearward of the axle.
Carefully read the gage.
Repeat this, but be sure to roll the car back and forth like when you started. You have to normalize the suspension and steering system before you measure again.
Good luck

[emf]

I have one of these and tried it... The problem is that when the gauge is to the back of the car, you have to crawl under to read the gauge. If I do it backwards, that is, end with the gauge to the front, will it read toe-out...

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

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One Guy just drives STRAIGHT PINS into the tire treads & just measures between them with a Measuring tape. He said his tires are wearing SMOOTH & EVEN.
Bill W.

[WHN]

Front end shop, $49.95.

Today they make some really nice equipment. Had our 29 done two years ago along with a complete grease job with high pressure grease gun. Made a big difference. Drives like it has power steering, and tracks right down the road straight.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Jacksonlll

They work pretty good.
Car on flat driveway. Roll car back about a car length, then back where you started.
Put tool in front of axle and at the height that lets the chains just touch the surface. Position the tool ends at the innermost side of the tire.
Zero the gage.
Roll the car forward until the chains just touch the surface rearward of the axle.
Carefully read the gage.
Repeat this, but be sure to roll the car back and forth like when you started. You have to normalize the suspension and steering system before you measure again.
Good luck

When the rear reading is taken, it should be 1/16" more than the front reading.

[old31]

I bought a stickie tape from Hobby Lobby for $2.39 and a shower curtain from Wallmart for about $10.

This solved a death wobble that I had.

[WHN]

You guys are kiddy “right”.

Tape measures and shower curtains?

Do you really think there were not front end machines back in the day?

We read all the time on this forum about shimmy and death wobble. There are other people out there, on the road, also driving with us. Model A’s are not toys. People can get killed if a car or truck is not maintained properly.

There are a lot of very well maintained antique cars on the roads that are as safe today as the day they were made. There are also a lot of unsafe poorly maintained cars.

My belief is to fix it right, or do not drive it until it can be fixed. Sorry if my soap box has caused anyone heartburn.

[MrBruce]

Originally Posted by old31

I bought a stickie tape from Hobby Lobby for $2.39 and a shower curtain from Wallmart for about $10.

This solved a death wobble that I had.

I bought one and it works great. I too figured out you can use a shower curtain, put chains on it, then just mark with a pencil where the two rods come together and then roll it forward and mark again, take it off and see what the measurement is between the two marks....works great and shower curtain rods are cheap

[Cool Hand Lurker]

The pins in the tread method and the shower curtain rod with pencil marks method are the two best ideas. And also the simplest ones. That just can't be right!

[AL in NY]

Thanks for all the input guys. I believe I did my car correctly. Don't know why the other members had a problem with this tool. Maybe I'll give them a copy of the instruction sheet and they can try again.

[Dick M]

You will need rims that are true and have no wobble to be successful. Otherwise, you can get a false reading. I always find it best to use a marker that is stationary on the floor. Spin the tire with the marker against the tire. This will give you a true center line on the tire. Using the lines to measure the distance will give you a true reading to work with. Remember, if the rim is out 1/4 inch from true, you will not get an accurate reading.

[AL in NY]

Dick M, the wobble in the rim does not make a difference in the measurement. If you pick one point anywhere on the tire, it will rotate in a circle perpendicular to the axis of rotation, providing there is no play into the wheel bearings. You will have to re-zero the tool if you move it to another point on the tire if your wheesl don't run true, but the toe-in final measurement will be the same.

[Tacoma Bob]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Dick M, the wobble in the rim does not make a difference in the measurement. If you pick one point anywhere on the tire, it will rotate in a circle perpendicular to the axis of rotation, providing there is no play into the wheel bearings. You will have to re-zero the tool if you move it to another point on the tire if your wheesl don't run true, but the toe-in final measurement will be the same.

Yup! Marco also has a great tutorial on how a "Duby" gauge functions. There are a ton of ways to do this procedure. Some simple and some not so simple. But the end results are the same.

[Keith True]

Even if you have a little play in the wheel bearings,you will be OK.You have the weight of the car holding them tight.I have a Duby bar,and really find a spring loaded shower bar to be easier.It is too hard to read those numbers through the slotted window.There was a fellow on here years ago that was setting his toe-in perfect in the garage.When he backed it out he see how far it was out with his eyes.It took a while for everybody trying to help him to figure out he was setting it with the car jacked up with the wheels hanging.When I worked in a Mack garage we set toe in with a tape measure,as per the Mack manual.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

REMEMBER, LOOSEY GOOSEY adjusted front wheel bearings can FOIL your toe in adjustment!
The STRANGE ways some Folks adjust their bearings, are plain old SCAREY!! One Guy just ran the nuts, FINGER TIGHT!!!! Some backed them off by 1 or 2 castelations!!!! SCAREY!!!
Some even used chassis grease, in the bearings!!! Don't know what color it was????
Bill Slight pre-load[/B]

[nevadavic]

I have used the "Tenhulzen" Toe Plates on several cars with good results. Summit Racing and Amazon carries the Tenhulzen 2200 toe plates.


The tool uses the wheel rim for measurements so the rim has to run true. check out the video at Summit racing for this item. The tool consists of two plates and two tape measures. Cost is $100. at most sites.

[whirnot]

Originally Posted by WHN

You guys are kiddy “right”.






There are a lot of very well maintained antique cars on the roads that are as safe today as the day they were made. There are also a lot of unsafe poorly maintained cars.

My belief is to fix it right, or do not drive it until it can be fixed. Sorry if my soap box has caused anyone heartburn.

You don't necessarily have to have special systems to fix things right. If the results are correct, and they can be with these simple tools, then there is no reason to look down on them. I was trained on multiple brands of front end alignment equipment and as long as you understand the geometry of what you are doing these are absolutely as accurate.

[Smooth_One]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

REMEMBER, LOOSEY GOOSEY adjusted front wheel bearings can FOIL your toe in adjustment!
The STRANGE ways some Folks adjust their bearings, are plain old SCAREY!! One Guy just ran the nuts, FINGER TIGHT!!!! Some backed them off by 1 or 2 castelations!!!! SCAREY!!!
Some even used chassis grease, in the bearings!!! Don't know what color it was????
Bill Slight pre-load[/B]

Bill, What kind of grease do you run in the wheel bearings?
I use the red Lucas thick stuff.

[old31]

Originally Posted by WHN

You guys are kiddy “right”.

Tape measures and shower curtains?

Do you really think there were not front end machines back in the day?

We read all the time on this forum about shimmy and death wobble. There are other people out there, on the road, also driving with us. Model A’s are not toys. People can get killed if a car or truck is not maintained properly.

There are a lot of very well maintained antique cars on the roads that are as safe today as the day they were made. There are also a lot of unsafe poorly maintained cars.

My belief is to fix it right, or do not drive it until it can be fixed. Sorry if my soap box has caused anyone heartburn.

Dear Mr Kiddy Heartburn.

The shower curtain route is an exact copy of an original.

This allows me to do the job at home, not have to bring it to a garage, do it for free. I have loaned out my "shower curtain" to 4 others and they are happy with the results.

After I do the alignment I then can install the tool in my bathroom and have shower. This is truly a dual purpose, multi-functional tool.

[dmaxweb]

https://wheel-a-matic.com/cars-light...-gauge-inches/

Check around online as prices vary dramaticaly. Bought a NOS on Ebay for $30.

[alexiskai]

I'd be remiss not to mention this excellent post from 2014:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=16

Measuring your toe-in is one thing, but then how do you know how much to rotate the tie rod? This post gives the exact math to calculate it. I used it last weekend when I did my toe-in and the results came out perfectly.

For the record, I measured toe-in by jacking up the front end, marking horizontally across each tire with chalk, and then measuring the distance for that point at a consistent height in the front and the back. To improve accuracy, I measured the distance between 3 points at the edges of the tread grooves on each tire and then averaged the results.

[katy]

Some even used chassis grease, in the bearings!!! Don't know what color it was????

Bill, What kind of grease do you run in the wheel bearings? I use the red Lucas thick stuff.

I've been using chassis grease in wheel bearings for over 60 years and never had a problem related to the grease.

[zzlegend]

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I still have my toe in tools from back in the 60's. Four quarts of Texaco 30 wt. oil and two straight pieces of 6' long steel. Had to do what you had to do. Now the curtain rod with a sticky back clothing tape, takes its place. And i leave the car on the ground and roll it back and and forth and double check it a few times. Not really rocket science for me. Just my 2 1/2 cents.

[DHZIEMAN]

I fear I did overkill on this toe in thing, but, it is what it is! I got some angle iron from my junk pile and some wood. I then cut the angle iron in two pieces that when held up next to my model a tires, there was an inch sticking out front and back. Next, I cut two pieces of wood, and formed the wood to fit just inside the rim lip! I then bolted the wood in line with the edge of the angle iron and screwed the wood to the angle iron! I then cut another hunk of angle to fit on the inside of the Wheel and drilled holes in both the outside piece with the wood attached and took some thread stock and mounted two sets of these on each front wheel. Using a level, got both mounted to be perfectly level and at the same height. Then using a ruler, I did my toe in measure and adjustment! The order of things, is adjust wheel bearings, then do toe in, and sadly with my homemade arrangement, since you should do toe in averaging because wheels are not true, I had to reclamp and level and measure about 3 times! But when done, no more shimmy!

[old31]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

I'd be remiss not to mention this excellent post from 2014:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=16

Measuring your toe-in is one thing, but then how do you know how much to rotate the tie rod? This post gives the exact math to calculate it. I used it last weekend when I did my toe-in and the results came out perfectly.

For the record, I measured toe-in by jacking up the front end, marking horizontally across each tire with chalk, and then measuring the distance for that point at a consistent height in the front and the back. To improve accuracy, I measured the distance between 3 points at the edges of the tread grooves on each tire and then averaged the results.

With the shower curtain you know exactly how much to turn the tie rod. An no math needed to figure it out. With the curtain in place as you turn the tie rod with a vice grip and you can watch the tape on the rod increase or decrease so that you can get the 1/16 toein needed.

A example would be you have 7 and 1/2 to start. You roll the car and end up with 7 and 5/8. Now you turn the tie rod back to 7 and 9/16.

[KR500]

Here are original instructions for the Duby Toe In gage.

[KR500]

I recommend when using the Duby gage, try doing it on at least 2 different places on tires just to confirm your results.

[JoeCB]

I like the four Texaco oil can idea... which brings up the question, how high off the ground do you measure the 1/16 inch or whatever the measure should be? Higher up will give a larger measure until you get to the wheel center line. In other words how long are those chains on the commercial tool?
Joe B

[AL in NY]

JoeCB, you don't raise the front end up off the ground to do this alignment procedure. The chains on the tool are a reference as to how high off the ground the tool is placed on the tire. Place the tool on the tire so the chains just touch the ground. Zero the measurement on the tool. Then roll the car forward until the chains again are just touching the ground. Look at the gauge measurement on the tool. It will tell you the amount of toe-in or toe-out your car has.

[Werner]

My question too: How long must the chains be?

[AL in NY]

I don't have a tool to look at, but my best estimate would be 10 inches.

[JoeCB]

Yes, that is what I'm looking for … the length of the chains? Because the height off the ground of the tool ( not the car) will change the measured toe in. If one is to set toe in to a specification then you have to know how high (off the ground) to take the measurement.

Joe B

[emf]

I'll measure my chains and report back later today...


Frank

[old31]

My curtain rod chains are 6 inches. I read somewhere it should be 6 inches.

[SAJ]

The chains cannot be longer than the height of the front wishbone arms from the floor. Otherwise the wishbone will knock the trammel off the tyres as you roll the car forward and the trammel rises up to meet the wishbone. 6 inches sounds about right. It is defined in the Ford service bulletins, where the toe in figure is specified as being measured well below hub height by Ford.
I am not in a place where I can look it up tight now. Somewhere on the Barn recently the Ford service method was reproduced.
SAJ in NZ

[emf]

My Duby Gauge has chains that are 7 1/2" long.


Frank

[JoeCB]

Well this conversation explains a lot... Thanks all. Not knowing the correct procedure I had always checked my toe-in at hub level using the taught string 4 - wheel alignment procedure. Measuring that high off the ground I will be getting way less toe- in than the spec. Might help explain tendency to wander.

Joe B

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Originally Posted by old31

Dear Mr Kiddy Heartburn.

The shower curtain route is an exact copy of an original.

This allows me to do the job at home, not have to bring it to a garage, do it for free. I have loaned out my "shower curtain" to 4 others and they are happy with the results.

After I do the alignment I then can install the tool in my bathroom and have shower. This is truly a dual purpose, multi-functional tool.

I use the shower curtain for both purposes as well. Not only are my tires wearing evenly, but I don’t get water on the bathroom floor.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

I would guess that a different length chain is for a different car?

Originally Posted by Werner

My question too: How long must the chains be?

The service bulletins specs and tool are designed for six inches above the floor.

[motordr]

Originally Posted by KR500

Here are original instructions for the Duby Toe In gage.

Thank you KR500 for those copies! I had been using the curtain rod until I found a Duby gage for $5.00 at Dunkirk from friend Mark M.