The Ford Barn

Jemelton# · 10-04-2017, 10:44 AM

On my daily run to the village post office in my 29 Tudor, I come upon this hill.
What would you suggest as the correct way to climb said hill?
I have been gaining speed on the downhill run, keeping it under 40mph as the gravel can sometime be loose, holding the accelerator pedal steady I get about ¾ of the way to the top then I double clutch, shift to second, (with the sporadic grinding of gears), and continue the climb. I have occasionally made it to the top in 3rd but I fell that I am lugging the motor too much doing this.
Should I be doing anything with the spark advance or GAV before getting to this hill, or should I continue doing it as before? I really don’t want to lug the motor but then again over revving it in 2nd can’t be good either.
Any advice would be welcome.

40 Deluxe · 10-04-2017, 11:36 AM

View the hill as your personal dynamometer. Keep experimenting with different techniques. Play with the spark lever, maybe hit the hill at 45 with the lever 3/4 down. and gradually move it up as your speed slows. Vary the amount and when to see what happens. Same with the GAV. When you've gotten all you can, put on a high compression head and see the difference!

SeaSlugs · 10-04-2017, 12:53 PM

make sure your tires are properly inflated and try being at 45 at the bottom. Theres one hill that i take my modern on and always use the truck lane - if im not going 60mph at the bottom i wont make it in 5th at the top going 45 and ill have to downshift.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-04-2017, 01:07 PM

Many make the mistake & go FULL advance climbing hills---WRONG!! go to about 1/2 advance. Generally speaking, on flat running, if going 1/2 road speed, go 1/2 advance, if FULL road speed, go FULL advance. ALWAYS match advance with road speed.
Bill Noping

WHN · 10-04-2017, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Many make the mistake & go FULL advance climbing hills---WRONG!! go to about 1/2 advance. Generally speaking, on flat running, if going 1/2 road speed, go 1/2 advance, if FULL road speed, go FULL advance. ALWAYS match advance with road speed.
Bill Noping

Bill has made some good points. I would rather be less advanced than more. Your engine will tell you what it likes. Just lessen to the sounds. Enjoy.

SSsssteamer · 10-04-2017, 07:19 PM

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When I hit a hill, and we have a lot of them around here in the Northwest, I usually have the GAV turned no more than a half a turn open. Around town I usually ruin with the GAV almost closed. That little bit of extra gas gives me a little extra push. I match my spark advance to my engine speed. Some times a long hill is just too steep to easily shift out of second and into third. The higher rpm in second gear can be matched with a bit more advance in the timing.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-04-2017, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHN

Bill has made some good points. I would rather be less advanced than more. Your engine will tell you what it likes. Just lessen to the sounds. Enjoy.

I hope MANY read my post. There's about as much confusion about using the SPARK properly as there is about settin' the TIMING! I hope we've cleared up confusion about thet blasted GAV thingy AND, don't fergit to turn on the gas, before you report a "NO START"---LOL
I've had my ANTI-PAIN-PILL & in a JOLLY mood. I'm CRABBY, when I HURT or HUNGRY & I can't blame the cook, I'm him, the Dog jist watches & smells! He likes the sounds of the Keurig Coffee Maker cuz he knows it MELLOWS me out He's so SMART, it's SCAREY
Bill Basic

mike657894 · 10-04-2017, 07:33 PM

Gav a turn out. With out being in the car I cant say if your lugging too much. But I would say you can lug pretty much to the point of stall or till it gets jerky with out doing damage. I could be wrong but I dont remember hearing about any engine troubles from lugging. I heard a tip here to get out of double clutching. push the clutch pop into nuetral and count to three then shift silently into the next gear then release clutch. That may not help a lot on the hill. To shift with out grinding quickly put more force behind your shift hand. But that makes a bit of sound I dont really like to hear but is probably not bad for it.

cpf240 · 10-04-2017, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WHN

Bill has made some good points. I would rather be less advanced than more. Your engine will tell you what it likes. Just lessen to the sounds. Enjoy.

So... are you saying Bill is less advanced?

Perhaps the OP could post a video for more information. I have a pretty steep hill in my area, and have wondered how to approach it. I have to get the car road-worthy first though...

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-04-2017, 08:35 PM

[QUOTE=cpf240;1535369]So... are you saying Bill is less advanced?

CPF,
You'd be SHOCKED by what you DON'T know about Ol'Bill
Bill Mysterious

Kurt in NJ · 10-04-2017, 10:32 PM

I had some old gas I was using in the lawnmower but when it got into heavy grass it pinged--- so I put it into the A and went to the steepest hill around here- the Ocean city bridge, started at the bottom 20 mph, full throttle, full advance, no pinging, crested at 40 mph --- I have also used gas with 50% diesel-- the lawnmower has higher compression ratios than the stock A---- ever since I did my own Babbitt I have been trying to break it, how else will I know how good I did---3rd gear starts, long distance flat out, leaving it full advance all the time except in parades-- once I tied the steering full lock and let it run circles in 3rd gear at idle for an hour on a 95 degree day--- been trying for over 25 years to break it
The previous incarnation of the engine had a worn cam and sunk in the block valve seats--- it would ping under load with full advance and wouldn't go over 52, was broken in easy, not driven with full advance except at higher speeds, the Babbitt crumbled in 3000 miles, I have come to the conclusion that there isn't much you can do to "save" bad Babbitt job, and there isn't much that will hurt a good job on a stock engine built to original tolerance

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-05-2017, 10:39 AM

2 strips of grass left, ran out of gas in the OLD Briggs & Stratton! Dumped in a can of Old type Energine Cleaning Fluid & FINISHED. Got a FREE carb cleaning at the same time!
Bill Tricky

Jemelton# · 10-05-2017, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpf240

So... are you saying Bill is less advanced?

Perhaps the OP could post a video for more information. I have a pretty steep hill in my area, and have wondered how to approach it. I have to get the car road-worthy first though...

I used to live in Spokane, WA so I know about those Pacific NW hills.

As soon as the weather clears here ( 2" of rain so far today) I will get out the video camera and take you for a ride in the southwest Iowa hills!

SuperDave · 10-05-2017, 03:46 PM

Hills?? Those things that appear at The Interstate overpasses? Melbourne FLORIDA.

ronn · 10-05-2017, 06:07 PM

why not climb it slowly in 2nd?

whats the rush?

40 Deluxe · 10-05-2017, 07:09 PM

It used to be a badge of honor to climb a hill in high gear that others couldn't. Showed that you were better at tuning your A!

loubob · 10-05-2017, 07:27 PM

I run my spark @ 50%.
When going up a hill I fully advance the spark and the car seems to run much better. Speed remains the same or loses1-3 mph depending on the degree of the grade. I then return the spark lever to the 50% position at the top of the hill.
Stock engine w/5.5 head.

Richard in Anaheim CA · 10-06-2017, 03:25 AM

That hill doesn't look like much of a hill to challenge a good running Model A. Just start the hill a little faster,open the GAV a 1/4 turn or so, keep the spark advanced as long as the engine is still pulling well, and slightly reduce the spark advance to match engine speed slowing. Don't worry about down shifting to second. "Practiec" down shiftiig with engine on level ground with a bit of engine revving between gears.
Keep your foot in iit from bottom to top. You'll sail right over the top.

pooch · 10-06-2017, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loubob

I run my spark @ 50%.
When going up a hill I fully advance the spark and the car seems to run much better. Speed remains the same or loses1-3 mph depending on the degree of the grade. I then return the spark lever to the 50% position at the top of the hill.
Stock engine w/5.5 head.

Wow, my centre bearing babbitt hurts even from down under hearing this.,

Synchro909 · 10-06-2017, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooch

Wow, my centre bearing babbitt hurts even from down under hearing this.,

Lugging with too much advance is a good way to break a crankshaft too. Nothing good can happen like that!

10-04-2017, 11:36 AM	#2
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,778	Re: Hill Climbing Technique View the hill as your personal dynamometer. Keep experimenting with different techniques. Play with the spark lever, maybe hit the hill at 45 with the lever 3/4 down. and gradually move it up as your speed slows. Vary the amount and when to see what happens. Same with the GAV. When you've gotten all you can, put on a high compression head and see the difference!

10-04-2017, 12:53 PM	#3
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Hill Climbing Technique make sure your tires are properly inflated and try being at 45 at the bottom. Theres one hill that i take my modern on and always use the truck lane - if im not going 60mph at the bottom i wont make it in 5th at the top going 45 and ill have to downshift. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

10-04-2017, 01:07 PM	#4
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Hill Climbing Technique Many make the mistake & go FULL advance climbing hills---WRONG!! go to about 1/2 advance. Generally speaking, on flat running, if going 1/2 road speed, go 1/2 advance, if FULL road speed, go FULL advance. ALWAYS match advance with road speed. Bill Noping __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

10-04-2017, 07:19 PM	#6
SSsssteamer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sedro-Woolley, WA Posts: 1,023	Re: Hill Climbing Technique Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) When I hit a hill, and we have a lot of them around here in the Northwest, I usually have the GAV turned no more than a half a turn open. Around town I usually ruin with the GAV almost closed. That little bit of extra gas gives me a little extra push. I match my spark advance to my engine speed. Some times a long hill is just too steep to easily shift out of second and into third. The higher rpm in second gear can be matched with a bit more advance in the timing.

10-04-2017, 07:33 PM	#8
mike657894 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bay City Michigan Posts: 1,050	Re: Hill Climbing Technique Gav a turn out. With out being in the car I cant say if your lugging too much. But I would say you can lug pretty much to the point of stall or till it gets jerky with out doing damage. I could be wrong but I dont remember hearing about any engine troubles from lugging. I heard a tip here to get out of double clutching. push the clutch pop into nuetral and count to three then shift silently into the next gear then release clutch. That may not help a lot on the hill. To shift with out grinding quickly put more force behind your shift hand. But that makes a bit of sound I dont really like to hear but is probably not bad for it.

10-04-2017, 08:35 PM	#10
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Hill Climbing Technique [QUOTE=cpf240;1535369]So... are you saying Bill is less advanced? CPF, You'd be SHOCKED by what you DON'T know about Ol'Bill Bill Mysterious __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

10-04-2017, 10:32 PM	#11
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,156	Re: Hill Climbing Technique I had some old gas I was using in the lawnmower but when it got into heavy grass it pinged--- so I put it into the A and went to the steepest hill around here- the Ocean city bridge, started at the bottom 20 mph, full throttle, full advance, no pinging, crested at 40 mph --- I have also used gas with 50% diesel-- the lawnmower has higher compression ratios than the stock A---- ever since I did my own Babbitt I have been trying to break it, how else will I know how good I did---3rd gear starts, long distance flat out, leaving it full advance all the time except in parades-- once I tied the steering full lock and let it run circles in 3rd gear at idle for an hour on a 95 degree day--- been trying for over 25 years to break it The previous incarnation of the engine had a worn cam and sunk in the block valve seats--- it would ping under load with full advance and wouldn't go over 52, was broken in easy, not driven with full advance except at higher speeds, the Babbitt crumbled in 3000 miles, I have come to the conclusion that there isn't much you can do to "save" bad Babbitt job, and there isn't much that will hurt a good job on a stock engine built to original tolerance

10-05-2017, 10:39 AM	#12
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Hill Climbing Technique 2 strips of grass left, ran out of gas in the OLD Briggs & Stratton! Dumped in a can of Old type Energine Cleaning Fluid & FINISHED. Got a FREE carb cleaning at the same time! Bill Tricky __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

10-05-2017, 03:46 PM	#14
SuperDave Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Melbourne Fl Posts: 166	Re: Hill Climbing Technique Hills?? Those things that appear at The Interstate overpasses? Melbourne FLORIDA. __________________ Live in the Past.... It's cheaper.

10-05-2017, 06:07 PM	#15
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,782	Re: Hill Climbing Technique why not climb it slowly in 2nd? whats the rush?

10-05-2017, 07:09 PM	#16
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,778	Re: Hill Climbing Technique It used to be a badge of honor to climb a hill in high gear that others couldn't. Showed that you were better at tuning your A!

10-05-2017, 07:27 PM	#17
loubob Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Syracuse,NY Posts: 264	Re: Hill Climbing Technique I run my spark @ 50%. When going up a hill I fully advance the spark and the car seems to run much better. Speed remains the same or loses1-3 mph depending on the degree of the grade. I then return the spark lever to the 50% position at the top of the hill. Stock engine w/5.5 head.

10-06-2017, 03:25 AM	#18
Richard in Anaheim CA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Anaheim California Posts: 551	Re: Hill Climbing Technique That hill doesn't look like much of a hill to challenge a good running Model A. Just start the hill a little faster,open the GAV a 1/4 turn or so, keep the spark advanced as long as the engine is still pulling well, and slightly reduce the spark advance to match engine speed slowing. Don't worry about down shifting to second. "Practiec" down shiftiig with engine on level ground with a bit of engine revving between gears. Keep your foot in iit from bottom to top. You'll sail right over the top.