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03-28-2020, 05:53 PM | #1 |
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Spark Plug Condition
I recently started having a little bit of a lope in the engine at slow idle. I’ve put 2000 miles on the car since I bought it last August. I don’t know how many miles were on the plugs prior to that. Cleaning and re-gapping the plugs to .035 seemed to fix the issue.
The plugs had some carbon on them, but the insulator and electrode seemed fairly clean. All four plugs were the same. I’m still pretty new to Model As. Is this what you would expect with plugs in a Model A? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
03-28-2020, 05:59 PM | #2 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Might be a little too much carbon on tbe plugs but the insulator in the middle is the correct tannish color you want to see. If the car works okay now, I would stick with it. Or you could get new plugs if it would comfort you.
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03-28-2020, 06:26 PM | #3 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Probably running a little rich, which you have to do in cold weather to get it to run until it warms up. See how they do, a lot of carburetors run 1/4 turn mixture but it really depends on the condition of the gav needle valve. An air filter may act like having the choke on slightly depending on the filter, since original A's didn't have any filters.
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03-28-2020, 06:42 PM | #4 | |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Quote:
I do have an air filter. The previous owner told me not to adjust the GAV, just leave it alone. If I want to run a little leaner, which direction should I turn the GAV? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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03-28-2020, 06:43 PM | #5 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
The car starts easily. I don’t want to risk messing that up.
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03-28-2020, 06:49 PM | #6 | |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
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Quote:
To check plugs on an A - run the car for a while at med to cruising speeds/rpms. While at higher speeds turn off the ignition, gas lever up immediately, cost to somewhere to park, and check the plugs. A lot of the black, slightly sooty condition is caused by the idle jets, and possible the jets running rich at around town. Lower RPM (below about 700 rpm also runs off the GAV, and that can tend to be rich. This is normal. Usually I pull & clean up the plugs with Carb Cleaner and a lint free cloth, reinstall them and go for a ride of an hour or more in teh country. Since this is very old tech, they do not run clean like a modern car with electronic ignition and fuel injection. |
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03-28-2020, 06:51 PM | #7 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
clockwise leans mix.
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03-29-2020, 05:37 AM | #8 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Here is a short video on how to clean them.
Yours look black and fuzzy. Time to clean them. Keep them clean and those plugs will last a very long time. Our plugs do foul and it is easy to clean them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hHT...cz4R0&index=35 |
03-29-2020, 06:52 AM | #9 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
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03-29-2020, 06:55 AM | #10 | |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Quote:
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03-29-2020, 07:04 AM | #11 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Typically, to start a Model A, you open the GAV a turn or so counterclockwise from completely closed. After warm up, turn it down clockwise to a quarter turn or so to run. I don't know why your previous owner told you not to touch the GAV. It's there for a purpose for fine tuning.
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03-29-2020, 07:27 AM | #12 | |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Quote:
Harbor freight. https://www.harborfreight.com/12-pie...-set-4614.html Most hardware stores and big box home improvement stores may have them. Sometimes also called jewelers files. |
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03-29-2020, 07:33 AM | #13 | |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Quote:
Also check the Model A Instruction Manual for basic info. Lots of good stuff. |
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03-29-2020, 07:39 AM | #14 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Will not attach, most likely too large of a file to attach.
here is a link, Click on "Click to download model a manual". http://www.motormayhem.net/model-a-f...owners-manual/ |
03-29-2020, 08:04 AM | #15 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Experiment with the GAV. While the engine is running, turn it clockwise until it stops, thats full lean, then open just enough for smooth idle, for most engines 1/4 turn. When cruising down the highway, I usually lean the engine out, to maybe an eighth turn, then when slowing down open it back to a quarter, or even a bit more. Driving a model A takes both hands, both feet, ears, and brain. If your new to an A, you really should get a copy of the original owners manual and read it well. It will dispell a lot of the bad advice that you will undoubtedly get.
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03-29-2020, 08:23 AM | #16 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
When slowing down if taking your foot completely off the gas a cough/popping sound is heard, means things are on the lean side. Could just need a little more GAV counter clockwise, or could be your carb idle mixture screw needs tweaking. This most likely will not cause damage/issues. Just one of the fine points in running an A. I agree with eagle above, this is the fun/enjoyment of driving an A, being involved and tuned into maximizing the operation of an A.
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03-29-2020, 08:41 AM | #17 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
I turn my GAV several times, it really makes a difference. If your car starts and runs fine then it may be open too far once the engine is warm. Just turn it clockwise and keep track of how far it turns until it stops so you can put it back there when starting. It really depends on the individual carb as to where it should be run going down the road, assuming your carb matches a stock one, it is about 1/4 turn counter clockwise from stop. When you get to stop on turning it, don't force it as it will cut a groove in the brass. I have one all apart if you want to look at what is going on inside the carburetor.
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03-29-2020, 09:05 AM | #18 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
You plugs don't look too bad, I run w-18 champions a little hotter plug but still have black soot. A lot of stop, go and idle driving here...
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03-29-2020, 11:21 AM | #19 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Forget the file. Find a old time gas station that performed tune-ups and ask to have them clean your plugs on their plug cleaner. Carry a spare set.
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03-29-2020, 12:35 PM | #20 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
I found when I ran motorcraft plugs they were a tad on the cold side. When I switched to the 'original' style plugs the car started running much much better. So may try a hotter plug from Champion.
Mike
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03-29-2020, 01:45 PM | #21 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Years ago, I had one of these. But, I’m guessing the abrasive would still be on the plug and get into the engine.
https://1stopretroshop.com/item-page...nd-blaster.htm Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
03-29-2020, 02:06 PM | #22 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
I have a little sand blaster like that. It works well but be sure to air blast out any residual sand so it doesn't get in the engine. I would not use a wire wheel on a spark plug. Little bits of metal could lodge up inside causing a short.
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03-29-2020, 05:24 PM | #23 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
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3X on my B engine with Police head, A distributor and B carburetor Good or bad? Last edited by Joop; 03-30-2020 at 06:28 PM. |
03-30-2020, 04:05 AM | #24 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
[QUOTE=shew01;1867209]I recently started having a little bit of a lope in the engine at slow idle. I’ve put 2000 miles on the car since I bought it last August. I don’t know how many miles were on the plugs prior to that. Cleaning and re-gapping the plugs to .035 seemed to fix the issue.
The plugs had some carbon on them, but the insulator and electrode seemed fairly clean. All four plugs were the same. I’m still pretty new to Model As. Is this what you would expect with plugs in a Model A? SHEw01, Here are the plugs from my Roadster. They are Champion W16Y. Maybe a tiny bit lean for best inlet valve life, and I run the GAV a tiny bit more open now but do not have any current pics on this phone. Running leaner causes valves to run hotter and I did burn my no 3 inlet valve somewhat once by doing this. That meant head off and valve grind much to my regret! Yours look a bit black on the bodies but a nice safe colour on the porcelains to me, but my pic is of a "plug chop" where I did 55 mph for a mile or so and then immediately cut the ignition and cruised to a stop. If your plugs were removed after idling you are showing mixture at idling and not that at running speeds. Further, your plugs may not be hot enough for your kind of motoring and a hotter plug may burn cleaner. My Champion W16Y's are felt to be too cold for many members, but suit my driving style and type of trips. Many use W18Y's or W18's. I suggest you try closing the GAV 1/8 turn and examine plugs again after a drive and before any idling. My pic is with an unbalanced carb, large K and N air cleaner and B carb. I get 17 mpg around town and 22 to 24 mpg (imperial gal not US) on tours SAJ in NZ Footnote: plug colour depends on quality of fuel too. And Ethanol changes the look as well. I do not run ethanol fuel. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by SAJ; 03-30-2020 at 05:25 AM. Reason: Reviewed pics on a bigger screen and changed my mind somewhat. And changed "cleaner" to "leaner" |
03-30-2020, 05:19 AM | #25 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
I had to edit my first attempt done on a tiny screen. Changed the word that spell-checked from "cleaner" back to "leaner" which completely alters the sense of what I was typing.
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03-30-2020, 06:24 AM | #26 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
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03-30-2020, 10:36 AM | #27 |
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Re: Spark Plug Condition
Since the center electrode is correct color, if he changes to a hotter plug would that not be too hot with possibly causing valve damage? Seems his higher speeds carburation is OK.
Seems more of a carburation issue at under 1000 rpm. So clean up the plugs, run the car. As soon as car starts increase idle using the lever and reduce GAV to 1/8 to 1/4 open, minimize running below 1000 rpm, do a chop read. Perhaps a set of flow tested Renner's Jets, making sure the jet heights are correct. Make sure the idle rpms and idle mixture is set correctly, proper GAV adjust used, and insure the throttle plate has the proper cutout that lines up with the idle opening/passage. I would love to have the tan read as attached in post 24, but have been unable to get tan on anything but the insulator,. Mine seem to always turn Black from low speed driving the black does not self clean off when driving higher speeds. Have been told black is OK, but soot is not. My truck motor has 3000 miles since rebuild, large K and N High boy not bypassed. Standard head, standard trans, 3.54 gears. Speedometer calibrated via GPS and Traffic speed signs. AM running large 16 tires/wheels. Have tried 2 different carbs with Renner's jets following Bert's carb set up instructions. Am only getting 14-15 mpg cruising on non ethanol gas. Same results on plug reads and mileage with and without the air filter. So have given up and am living with the results. |
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