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Old 11-15-2019, 03:21 PM   #1
Mart
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Default Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

I bought a flathead that is in rather poor condition. I thought it might make an interesting little project and would be a good subject for a series of videos. Will it run? No chance. It might one day, who knows?

As far as I can tell, it's a circa 1940 "Mercury" motor, probably the truck/military version. It has the bigger bore. I think it has the earlier valve angles I'm not sure yet. If anyone can share any info on the spec please chime in.

I'm trying a new video editing software. See what you think. The audio could be better, that will be addressed in any future episodes. You might need to adjust the volume.

Hopefully people will find it interesting to see what comes of it.

Anyway check the video.

https://youtu.be/p92W9svmBBY

Mart.
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Old 11-15-2019, 03:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Relieved block no less....
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Old 11-15-2019, 04:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Since it now is std 239 and has a rebuild tag i suspect it started out as a 221.
Do a pencil test on it...
Thought the setting of the caliper was the reading...so its a 239...my mistake..

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Old 11-15-2019, 04:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

It's in better shape than the two blocks I dragged home, one of mine is totally bare and the other has a crank, cam and valves, mine were given to me by a friend. I told my wife one can never have too many flathead's.

I'll be watching this series as you tear down this motor.

Try this link to ID your new project.
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...85to100mid.htm
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Old 11-15-2019, 04:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Interesting engine hoist adapter. Also I’ve never seen a cast cam gear before
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Old 11-15-2019, 04:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Weh I get an engine like this, that looks pretty good, but won't turn over. Iplace one bank vertical and por in a 1/2 inch of 50/50 mix )Asid tone and ATF, and let it set for a week or two. The do the other side. It might come apart much easier. Yes the lifting device is an angle iron with a hook on it.Mine has an old connecting rod in it. Been using it for over 50 years and it was given to me by a very old flathead builder. Hope to pass it along.
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

You can tell from the round centre water passage that it started life as a 239.
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Old 11-15-2019, 06:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

did i see the extra oil passage at the rear for the "95%" oil filter?
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Old 11-15-2019, 07:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Thanks guys. The lift bracket wasn't my idea, I saw it mentioned somewhere. (Probably here).

The motor does have the extra port, but I can't see any plugs in the passages.

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Old 11-15-2019, 08:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Quote:
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Thanks guys. The lift bracket wasn't my idea, I saw it mentioned somewhere. (Probably here).

The motor does have the extra port, but I can't see any plugs in the passages.

Mart.
I would guess that it started life as a military block with the oil filter/coolers on them. If so it would not have a plug in the horizonal passage, oil flow was controlled by a fitting pressed into the vertical passage.
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Old 11-15-2019, 09:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Definitely military given its unique cast iron timing gear
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Old 11-15-2019, 09:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

It doesn't have the raised intake manifold surface . . . so now I need to think a bit. How about the pan rails - does it have the "bulges" in the cast iron? Just curious as to what this really is???
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:41 AM   #13
Graeme / New Zealand
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

I have a 99a block that is relieved in the same way. It has been sitting under a tarp at my sisters place for 15 years. Before I left it there I filled the bores and around the valves with marine grease. When I retire in a couple of years I will recover it and tear it down fully.

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Old 11-16-2019, 09:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

You have my block Mart! Per my avatar, looks like the same right down to the cast iron timing gear. 1939 Canadian military 239 c.i. Mercury. I've attached a pdf file of a spreadsheet I used to determine my blocks' provenance.It may help you confirm what you have. The coolant passage configuration denotes this as what was termed a "Keystone" block which, apparently, was prized by many hot rodders back in the day. Coincidentally, my engine is currently just days away from start-up after god knows how many years! Good luck with this one Mart!

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Old 11-16-2019, 09:46 AM   #15
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Thanks Glen. We should have pretended yours is the "after" shot. that's a pretty useful spreadsheet, having all the pertinent facts all in one place.

Mine does fit the same description of yours, so 39/40 "mercury" but truck spec (relieved) and probably some sort of military history.

I can't see a 99 stamp on mine. I'm thinking it is Canadian because of the hole in the front of the block. (As shown in the video)

Thanks again.

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Old 11-16-2019, 12:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Mart: I'm pretty sure you'll find the '99' cast into the block just forward of the deck to the right of #1 cylinder. See the attached pic, lower left. In fact, I believe I caught a glimpse of it in your video.

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Old 11-16-2019, 12:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Glen, you're absolutely right. i have just been working on it for the last couple of hours and even then I did not notice it. I had to go back outside and have another look. It's there, alright, a 99 cast right in in raised letters.

Thanks for pointing me straight to it.

These old motors are always a voyage of discovery.

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Old 11-16-2019, 03:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Mart, I'd say that rusty flathead has as good or better chance of getting unstuck than either of mine do. Its going on 4 years since I've been pouring various mxtures down the carb and spark plug holes of the 49 Mercury truck engine and there is still no sign of movement there. Coming up on two years that I've had the "headless" 53 Merc engine on the stand with acetone+atf in any holes that will hold it I think the only way these will move is by unbolting every fastener on them.
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Probably also got 99 cast on each centre exhaust passage, visible through bottom centre hole each side....
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Old 11-16-2019, 05:30 PM   #20
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Quote:
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Mart: I'm pretty sure you'll find the '99' cast into the block just forward of the deck to the right of #1 cylinder. See the attached pic, lower left. In fact, I believe I caught a glimpse of it in your video.

Glen
Glen yep same as my one still under the tarp. These Canadian blocks were often used in WWII bren gun carriers, they were supposedly good blocks because they had a high nickel content.

GB
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:25 PM   #21
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Wink Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Quote:
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Mart, I'd say that rusty flathead has as good or better chance of getting unstuck than either of mine do. Its going on 4 years since I've been pouring various mxtures down the carb and spark plug holes of the 49 Mercury truck engine and there is still no sign of movement there. Coming up on two years that I've had the "headless" 53 Merc engine on the stand with acetone+atf in any holes that will hold it I think the only way these will move is by unbolting every fastener on them.


Try using lots of heat and a well placed BFH. Time to get serious!
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Old 11-16-2019, 08:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphG View Post
Mart, I'd say that rusty flathead has as good or better chance of getting unstuck than either of mine do. Its going on 4 years since I've been pouring various mxtures down the carb and spark plug holes of the 49 Mercury truck engine and there is still no sign of movement there. Coming up on two years that I've had the "headless" 53 Merc engine on the stand with acetone+atf in any holes that will hold it I think the only way these will move is by unbolting every fastener on them.
There was a thread on the "H.A.M.B." where they filled the valley with charcoal and ignited it. Then the put a piece of sheet metal over the whole thing, and after a couple of days, everything came loose.

Might be worth a try if all else fails.
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Old 11-16-2019, 09:18 PM   #23
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Mart... I love a dragged home flathead video. It never gets old. I once had a factory relieved military block on a navy shipyard welder. I have never gotten over the fact that I gave it away because I "didn't think I'd get to it." The guys that are advising heat and plenty of it are right on in my opinion. This completely stuck engine is now a bare block with no sign of cracks. Hoping to build it 255 for the wagon.
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:44 AM   #24
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

I have a holesaw the size of the bottom of the ring grooves on the outside of it i have a sleeve made of plastic to guide it an keep it from hitting the cyinderwalls.
You cut down enough to get by the rings and piston comes out in pieces.
A flathead has to come apart in a day...headstuds still the major headache..
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:29 PM   #25
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Thanks Murre for the helpful suggestions. I've never tried that method. I will be getting the pistons out soon, I'm not really looking forward to it.

On an old English 21 stud I was able to knock the heads of the pistons off surprisingly easily by putting a metal bar up inside the piston and hitting from below. When I tried this on a 59A it was really difficult and didn't work well at all. I will give that a try first and see how it goes.

What I am worried about at the moment is getting the cam and followers out.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Mart.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Great video Mart...Love it. Great idea for engine stand modification.

Mart, can you just soak the whole block in MMO or something similar for several weeks to loosen???

Last edited by FrankWest; 11-17-2019 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:22 AM   #27
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

If everythng is real crusty and the block is basicly all you care for...
Boltcutter or plasmacutter down in the liftervalley and cut valvestems...turn it upside down...pound lifters up...get the cam out.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:31 AM   #28
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Another fine production Mart!!....does that piece of angle iron you lift the block with have gussets or some type of brace underneath to stop it from flexing?....I’ve got a dozen or 15 blocks to move around and tear into and that would make things a lot quicker than bolts and a piece of chain....always enjoy the videos......Mark
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:34 AM   #29
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

I can report the teardown is going well so far.
Valves. Out.
Crank. Out.
Rods and pistons. Out.
Lifters. Out
Cam. Out.

I was just saying to my son, the secret is applying just enough brute force to get it done.

I will be sharing the videos once edited up. I do have some good footage.

Studs next. that can get messy.

Mart.

PS the angle iron piece has no gussets. It's about 2-1/4 (probably 60mm) angle with a 1/4 or 6mm thickness. It's not going to flex, the blocks ain't that heavy.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:38 PM   #30
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Default Re: Flathead Friday. New project. Rusty Crusty Flatty. VIDEO.

Thanks Mart....I’ll make up a couple....Mark
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