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Old 11-02-2019, 04:48 PM   #1
Werner
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Default Must replace timing gear

Good evening at all together,

I do not want to be annoying as a permanent questioner here. But my roadster and I may have now an other/the next big (?) problem. I saw today by sheer coincidence, that the 'plastic' camshaft wheel has at least 7 flat broken teeth in a row. My questions today:

Is the space right to change the timing gear without disassembling the radiator?

Are there any reasons to use not a new aluminum gear? (The noise is not important.) I do not want to use Novotex again.

Are there any other information about spare parts and tips for me? (I've never done that.)



Greatings to the far overseas from wet and cold Germany!
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Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
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Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 11-02-2019, 05:29 PM   #2
J Franklin
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

While I have not done so, I believe you can do it if you are careful. Use a metal gear if it is your choice.
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:00 PM   #3
Patrick L.
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

There is room. I suggest using one of the new style cam nuts, [ Bratton # 8780] makes things easier. Check the crank gear condition, they can get pretty pitted and changing that is a whole other matter.

Tighten the new gear to 100# and I oil or grease it and the plunger upon installation.

You might also want to drill the timing pin hole a bit bigger, makes it easier to find.

Last edited by Patrick L.; 11-04-2019 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:03 PM   #4
TerryH
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

I had mine changed a few years ago by our local Model A mechanic...he did the whole thing in about 2-3 hours....did not need to move the radiator. I used a new laminated gear....he said he had removed many metal ones that were too noisy, but if you don’t care likely a lasting change.....
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

If the old timing gear has been replaced once already, you may find the original nut which retains it (the one which is "oval) has been "buggered up" by removal using a punch and hammer.

Punch and hammer works - but the damage it does prevents removal of the nut using the usually sold tool for removing it (below)

The "upset" caused by the punch prevents you from putting this tool on and doing what needs done.

So you may be forced into reaching between the radiator and the front of the engine to "punch" it off again - unless you can get a small grinder (Dremel?) in there to clean up the nut.

You may want to buy a new nut before you begin.

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Old 11-02-2019, 06:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

Easy job. Taking the old nut off is the biggest problem. I would replace nut as mentioned above. I would also use fiber gear not metal. Enjoy,
.
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

I have replaced the camshaft gear without removing the radiator. It’s pretty tight, but it can be done. I second Patrick’s suggestion in post #3 - enlarge the dimple for the timing pin. I use fiber cam gears.
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:32 PM   #8
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Talking Re: Must replace timing gear

Off topic a bit, but, BTW ( i.e. "By The Way"), Werner, I don't think your posts are ever bothering to us...
At least IMHO ("In My Humble Opinion").......
I look forward to seeing them: I've wondered about that hole in the valve chamber myself, your input on the lubricant questions is always very informative, and I'm always very impressed with your ability to be so clear on technical details when English is a second language...
Hope your cam repair goes smoothly...
TallyHo!
John

(PS, I've spelled out the acronyms for Werner' benefit....)
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

When I was teaching I wouldtell my kids that it is not a stupid or annoying question if you truly want to learn.


Safety - to the radiator - tip. cover the radiator fins with a laarge piece of cardboard.
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Old 11-02-2019, 09:47 PM   #10
30 Closed Cab PU
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Good evening at all together,

I do not want to be annoying as a permanent questioner here. But my roadster and I may have now an other/the next big (?) problem. I saw today by sheer coincidence, that the 'plastic' camshaft wheel has at least 7 flat broken teeth in a row. My questions today:

Is the space right to change the timing gear without disassembling the radiator?

Are there any reasons to use not a new aluminum gear? (The noise is not important.) I do not want to use Novotex again.

Are there any other information about spare parts and tips for me? (I've never done that.)



Greatings to the far overseas from wet and cold Germany!

Wow Werner. This is the auction car you bought that was advertised as not needing any work, every thing in "excellent" condition. Seems every time you inspect something new you find something wrong.
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

Check with your friends to see if they have this video or if you have time order it
Might be just what your looking for

https://www.oneillvintageford.co.uk/..._road_DVD.html
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Old 11-03-2019, 08:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

I watched the preview of the video, it showed the timing gear as loose before he ever loosened the nut. Why would the gear be loose before the nut was loosened? What is the top reason for failure of these gears and why do so many of you recommend the fiber gear over aluminum or other type of metal,,,,?

I probably post more than I should and also worry about being an annoyance. Werner, I also think you do an excellent job communicating with English as a second language. You are not an annoyance. Me, probably although it's not my wish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PalAl View Post
Check with your friends to see if they have this video or if you have time order it
Might be just what your looking for

https://www.oneillvintageford.co.uk/..._road_DVD.html
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Old 11-03-2019, 11:29 AM   #13
Werner
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

I thought the same question like friendly 'History' too. The plastic cam wheels run quieter together with the steel crankshaft pulley. They also run free of play, because the plastic wheels can be somewhat "strained". But the living time - I think - is about 50.000 miles.

I tend to the aluminum tooth wheel. The loud tooth noise does not bother me, it fits well with a 90 year old car. I hope, the new alu-part can turning the next 90 years well ...

The photo shows the worn gear. So much tooth decay that it amazes that it could still spin. Here the construction of a helical gearing has proven itself.

Thank you for the helpin dismanteling!
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File Type: jpg P1010127.jpg (65.4 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg P1010117.jpg (60.9 KB, 42 views)
__________________
Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 11-03-2019, 12:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

Werner I've sent you a personal message with a few tips on how to do it. It's not a big job but takes about 3 hours . Any problems send me an email or phone ( phone number at the end of the notes I've sent you)

Last edited by johnbuckley; 11-03-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:53 PM   #15
Patrick L.
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

All the chips from that gear end up in the pan and can get in the oil pump or pump screen if there is one.
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Old 11-07-2019, 03:35 PM   #16
Werner
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

Good evening,


yes, Patrick, you're right. I will rinse the engine several times when it runs again. -

In the meantime the spare parts have flown in. The aluminum wheel I had to break down four times, because I thought wrong, that the piston # 1 must be at top dead center. My mistake!

Does the sealworm actually have to stand over so far? I read that the ends should not be cut off.

Thanks for helpin' hints.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010168.jpg (38.6 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg P1010202.jpg (55.1 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg P1010205.jpg (78.9 KB, 59 views)
__________________
Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 11-07-2019, 04:30 PM   #17
J Franklin
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

I have not seen a seal set like that. I would trim its feet.
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:37 PM   #18
Werner
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

I need help please. Maybe I have a thinking mistake?

If I align the two steering wheel markings correctly in opposite , the # 1 piston is about 1/2 inch below TDC. (Pic. 1)
If I set piston # 1 to TDC, the gear mark is not facing each other. (Pic. 2)

As far as I know, the valve overlap must always be done in TDC. But then the markings are not in opposite.

What's wrong here?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010184RR.jpg (46.2 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg P1010199RR.jpg (59.4 KB, 90 views)
__________________
Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

Nothing is wrong, the marks are not lined up at TDC.
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:40 AM   #20
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Default Re: Must replace timing gear

The marked crank gear tooth can be hard to see behind the slinger but it is the tooth that lines up with the right side of the keyway when looking from the front.

John
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