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Old 11-04-2019, 02:02 AM   #141
Tom-MI
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

I can't believe the length of this thread. Wouldn't the simplest solution be to just change the pan to a '49-'51 Mercury? '52-'53 pans are different.

Last edited by Tom-MI; 11-04-2019 at 07:19 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 11-04-2019, 07:29 AM   #142
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Regarding the torque, 120-130 FT-LB. See message #9 from below but "good and tight" is good!



https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1514437


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Old 11-04-2019, 07:42 AM   #143
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

One thing I never thought of: All this time I have been dealing with this problem it has been with no weight on the wheels. If I get this to the point where it operates with no interference anywhere, what will happen when I lower it down onto its own weight? I know the pit-man arm will stay where it is, but I am thinking the drag link and tie rod will raise up in relation to the oil pan. Also the drag link and tie rod may change a bit in relation to each other? Is my thinking wrong here and can I do anything to anticipate, compensate and avoid more issues?
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:44 AM   #144
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

The steering box and the engine are both anchored to the frame. You already have your axle on stands, so the weight of the car is on the springs and your suspension will change very little.
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:02 AM   #145
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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Originally Posted by davids2toys View Post
The end result will be the the drag ling end of the Pit-man arm will be a little lower and forward of the oil pan. I would think I would need to adjust the length of the drag link only with no adjustment to the tie rod at all. Am I missing something?
Thanks

Dave...You're not doing anything that should require ANY adjustment to the TIE ROD length. Also, you're effectively changing the angle on the drag link to such a small degree that I doubt you'll need much, if any lengthening.


I love "noisy" cars that can make your face look funny upon leaving a light. I DO appreciate the Cobras, but I've been a Corvette guy for 51 years now. DD
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:06 AM   #146
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

There's no real solution to this except to pull the pan and either modify it or replace it. The longer steering arm will make your steering heavier. Bending the arm down so far that it is hanging below the vehicle doesn't look like a good idea to me.The 36 box is not as efficient as the 37 up box, so will struggle with the longer arm.
the basic problem is that someone fitted an engine without using the correct pan for the swap. The only way to fix it realistically is to swap the parts or remove the parts and modify them.

While I might be prepared to attempt some kind of in situ mods to the pan, I can't advise you to do that because if it goes wrong when I'm doing it I'm fully prepared to do the work to put it right. If it goes wrong for you I can't help you and you would blame me for giving bad advice.

I've only ever dropped a pan in vehicle once before and it's not a lot of fun.

The only other solution would be to move house.

Mart.
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:11 AM   #147
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

There is probably a V 8 Club member in the area that could help this LOOG discussion to a satisfactory solution JMHO !
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:17 AM   #148
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by davids2toys View Post
One thing I never thought of: All this time I have been dealing with this problem it has been with no weight on the wheels. If I get this to the point where it operates with no interference anywhere, what will happen when I lower it down onto its own weight? I know the pit-man arm will stay where it is, but I am thinking the drag link and tie rod will raise up in relation to the oil pan. Also the drag link and tie rod may change a bit in relation to each other? Is my thinking wrong here and can I do anything to anticipate, compensate and avoid more issues?

David...If you have your jack stands set under the I-beam axle, everything is in the same relative plane as if the tires were on the ground. Now, if you have the jack stands supporting the frame rails, all bets are off as the axle, tie rod, tires/wheels etc. are all hanging down from the un-sprung (relaxed) spring. Please tell us that your jack stands are supporting the I-beam axle itself....? DD
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Old 11-04-2019, 11:12 AM   #149
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

pics in post 106 page 6 show stands under the front axle.
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Old 11-04-2019, 11:34 AM   #150
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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The steering box and the engine are both anchored to the frame. You already have your axle on stands, so the weight of the car is on the springs and your suspension will change very little.
I just sold some tranny fluid I had advertised an old timer who recognized the car as a 36 immediately. We talked for a while, he knew a ton and had restored a few of these old cars. He told me exactly what you just told me
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Old 11-04-2019, 11:39 AM   #151
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
Dave...You're not doing anything that should require ANY adjustment to the TIE ROD length. Also, you're effectively changing the angle on the drag link to such a small degree that I doubt you'll need much, if any lengthening.


I love "noisy" cars that can make your face look funny upon leaving a light. I DO appreciate the Cobras, but I've been a Corvette guy for 51 years now. DD
Good news on the drag link.


I was a GM guy my whole life until about 15 years ago. I went thru my vette period. I had a 64, 65, and my favorite...1960 in that order, then I got hooked on owning a cobra. Ended up with a Mustang and now the 36
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Old 11-04-2019, 11:40 AM   #152
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
David...If you have your jack stands set under the I-beam axle, everything is in the same relative plane as if the tires were on the ground. Now, if you have the jack stands supporting the frame rails, all bets are off as the axle, tie rod, tires/wheels etc. are all hanging down from the un-sprung (relaxed) spring. Please tell us that your jack stands are supporting the I-beam axle itself....? DD

Yes, under the I beam itself!!!!
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:12 PM   #153
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

But you still need to allow for suspension movement. But at least the movement diminishes as you move along the drag link towards the steering box.
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:45 PM   #154
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

You will notice that my drag link has about 3/4" of clearance on the oil pan at extreme left turn. I have no marks of rubbing in driving 4000+ miles.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pitmanarm3.jpg (63.6 KB, 19 views)
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:19 PM   #155
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
Regarding the torque, 120-130 FT-LB. See message #9 from below but "good and tight" is good!



https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1514437


Glenn
Excellent Glenn, thank you. I saved it, very valuable!!! I wonder why it was so hard to find?
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:35 PM   #156
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-MI View Post
I can't believe the length of this thread. Wouldn't the simplest solution be to just change the pan to a '49-'53 Mercury?
It might have gotten long but there is great info for others in the future.
I already have a 49-53 pan but apparently the wrong one for a car. Simplest, I don't think so!
So, I dont have the correct pan, pump, or pick up. Doing the pan job looks like a nightmare of a job which I am not up too at the moment. This is a 49-53 Merc engine in a 36 Ford...it is tight under there. Down the road I will most probably be changing the pan and then I will put the 36 arm back on.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:01 PM   #157
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-MI View Post
I can't believe the length of this thread. Wouldn't the simplest solution be to just change the pan to a '49-'53 Mercury?
Tom, I have a couple of questions about using a Mercury pan on the 8BA in a '30s car. Is the Mercury pan a proven cure for this situation? Also, Mercury changed body styles in '52, does '52 and '53 pans fit as well as the earlier ones?

I've seen pictures of the Mercury pans and they look deep so I'm looking for verification that it is a cure. It seems that the Mercury pans with the correct pick up tube is scarce.
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Old 11-04-2019, 04:08 PM   #158
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

This is an old swap item. I have never done it but I torn down a '46 Ford two years ago for parts that had an 8BA engine in it. It had the early pan for steering clearance. I sold the pan(and pump), a month ago for $50 bucks to a guy who was going to use it on a '35 he was putting a '53 Mercury engine into. They are still out there. A quick check on the web found two (kinda pricey). The part numbers you should look for are: 8CM6675C or 8CM6675D. The oil pump is: 8CM6600B, the oil screen is 8CM6615.

Hope this helps.

Tom
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:27 PM   #159
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Here's the '49-early '51 (I think) Mercury pan. I'd start looking now, 'cuz there ain't THAT MANY left out there. I've been looking for two hours to come up with these pics.


Dave...I won't mention that I have ONE of this whole set-up in my stash, but I need to keep for a future project. DD







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Old 11-04-2019, 05:58 PM   #160
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

I think I said they are kind of scarce. Do you really need the specific oil pump, or just the pick up tube and screen?
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