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Old 11-03-2019, 11:57 AM   #121
glennpm
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Hi David,


I don't believe the MAPP gas will get it hot enough. You need to get it to around 1500F. The MAPP gas may be hot enough but you need more volume of heated air from the torch.



I'd look for an old time service station or muffler shop. It would probably be cheaper there than going to a welding shop where there may be a minimum charge in my experience anyway.


Glenn
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Old 11-03-2019, 11:58 AM   #122
davids2toys
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

I thought someone said I could use Mapp because it burns much hotter. Maybe it was somewhere else on the Internet. Rose tip, don't know what that is but I will find out.
thank you
edit: Just found a "rosebud" tip on the internet, I am assuming this is what you meant
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Old 11-03-2019, 11:58 AM   #123
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Thanks Glenn
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:15 PM   #124
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Yep, rosebud. I could be wrong on the MAPP! I have only used it on small portable welding setup. Never liked it.
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:42 PM   #125
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

You're welcome David!

You need more heated volume of gas, i.e., Oxy-Acetylene which you can't get with the MAPP. It is hot enough but not enough heated volume of gas such as you can get with a rosebud. The MAPP flame would be smaller and cover less area. You need more heated air volume, 1500F or so, over a much larger area of the pitman arm to make the bend.


Glenn

Last edited by glennpm; 11-03-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 11-03-2019, 02:47 PM   #126
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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Originally Posted by davids2toys View Post
Amazing how much lower your drag link is than your tie-rod. I am assuming you meant tie-rod, not axle?
The pan you have in the pics is the pan that I have a present. Have you ever done the clean-out cover? t
I was referring to the first picture, the pitman arm is lower than the tie rod and the axle. I don't like it, and when I find a sure-fire way to correct it I will. I resealed my large clean out before I installed it on the engine. With good oil and regular changes I don't anticipate ever having to reseal it.
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Old 11-03-2019, 07:33 PM   #127
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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You're welcome David!

You need more heated volume of gas, i.e., Oxy-Acetylene which you can't get with the MAPP. It is hot enough but not enough heated volume of gas such as you can get with a rosebud. The MAPP flame would be smaller and cover less area. You need more heated air volume, 1500F or so, over a much larger area of the pitman arm to make the bend.


Glenn
Do you think after it is hot enough I could bend it with a big pipe vs Banging it with a hammer?

How about MAPP and one of those spreader tips?

A friend of mine is going to loan me his oxy setup and he is borrowing a rosebud tip from his brother. He was wondering about doing it while installed on the car. He has not seen the thickness of this arm though
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Old 11-03-2019, 07:40 PM   #128
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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Doesn't help that my Cobra is on the lift and not running at present so it is all on my back with a bum knee.

Will Mapp gas work instead of Acetylene? I do have some of those yellow bottles I believe. Also, would you happen to know the Torque range for the Pit-man arm castellated nut

Yo, Dave....I don't quite feel yur pain...MY knees have hurt the past 30 + years, I don't have a lift, and I don't have a Cobra!


Seriously though, take a peek at the YouTube video in the link below. It shows a couple of guys using a rosebud acetylene tip to heat and bend a couple of old Ford spindle arms. These are essentially the same forged steel that's used in your Pitman arm. This video should give you an idea of how hot you need to get that arm, keeping in mind that your Pitman arm is actually a larger cross section, meaning you'll have to heat just a little longer for the greater mass of your arm. Also, you may notice that he's bending with a large adjustable wrench (more control) rather than whanging on it with a BFH. I spent a good bit of time yesterday looking for the torque on that old Ford nut. Couldn't find it! I did come across a similar-sized Mustang nut and they said 150 ft. lbs. PLUS! I'd snug it up to a similar tightness and continue turning the nut 'til you can insert a cotter pin. Click on the link below! DD


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uZZ74MR7v4
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Old 11-03-2019, 07:46 PM   #129
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

The volume of heat needed I think you would go through those MAPP tanks faster than you could change them!
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Old 11-03-2019, 08:02 PM   #130
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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Yo, Dave....I don't quite feel yur pain...MY knees have hurt the past 30 + years, I don't have a lift, and I don't have a Cobra!


Seriously though, take a peek at the YouTube video in the link below. It shows a couple of guys using a rosebud acetylene tip to heat and bend a couple of old Ford spindle arms. These are essentially the same forged steel that's used in your Pitman arm. This video should give you an idea of how hot you need to get that arm, keeping in mind that your Pitman arm is actually a larger cross section, meaning you'll have to heat just a little longer for the greater mass of your arm. Also, you may notice that he's bending with a large adjustable wrench (more control) rather than whanging on it with a BFH. I spent a good bit of time yesterday looking for the torque on that old Ford nut. Couldn't find it! I did come across a similar-sized Mustang nut and they said 150 ft. lbs. PLUS! I'd snug it up to a similar tightness and continue turning the nut 'til you can insert a cotter pin. Click on the link below! DD


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uZZ74MR7v4
Yes I had the achy knee/bone on bone for a long time. Between both knees, I have had 6 arthroscopic surgeries for Meniscus tears, I finally opted on a left knee replacement 3 months ago. I don't know if this was smart move at all. I am in a lot more pain now than before the surgery! Hopefully with time it will get much better. My other knee is now just as bad and I was going to get the replacement on that also but now I am holding off until this one gets much better



I guess you need to get a Cobra then...LOL


Great video, I do have a much better idea of what to expect and how hot to get it. I guess that also answers my question about doing it on the car. I would be nice to do it in place and get everything exactly where you want it. I dont think I have enough room under there anyway, but maybe.


I have also been looking all over the place for the required Torque on the Pit-man arm nut. When removing, it sure was not on there with 150 ft lbs! It felt like about 60!
While I'm asking, what is the torque on the drag link to Pit-man arm castellated nut. Somewhere I read 40-50 ft lbs???
Dave
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Old 11-03-2019, 08:25 PM   #131
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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Between both knees, I have had 6 arthroscopic surgeries for Meniscus tears, I finally opted on a left knee replacement 3 months ago.




I would be nice to do it in place and get everything exactly where you want it. I dont think I have enough room under there anyway, but maybe.


It felt like about 60!
While I'm asking, what is the torque on the drag link to Pit-man arm castellated nut. Somewhere I read 40-50 ft lbs???
Dave

OK, you win on the knees! I will never own a Cobra!!


I'm not sure what you're implying here, but DO NOT heat that arm while on the steering box. At the least, it'll never retain lubricant again!


I believe I'd feel comfortable with "pretty damned snug" PLUS any additional turn required to insert cotter key. On the drag link castellated nut, I'd feel good with 35-40 PLUS additional turn to the cotter key hole. Insert that taper clean and DRY. DD
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Old 11-03-2019, 09:05 PM   #132
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

David, I can't give an exact procedure to accomplish what are are trying to do. I have not done this exact swap. Maybe try the hamb also.


Few things to consider:


Changing out the steering box. As posted above.

Bending the steering arm. Mapp gas won't do it, you will need someone experienced with a torch. Even then a 36 stock arm might not be long enough. *** just remember the lower you drop it the more you increase the possibility of the "death wobble". Angles are important.

Shorting the drag link is not a big deal.

Do one thing at a time .

Some nonsense and observations just looking through this thread.



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Old 11-03-2019, 09:08 PM   #133
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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I'm not sure what you're implying here, but DO NOT heat that arm while on the steering box. At the least, it'll never retain lubricant again!

Do they ever retain oil? haha just kidding.


Ya it needs to be removed. It's some thick stuff, you'll need to heat it and add pressure.


Just my opinion.


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Old 11-03-2019, 11:53 PM   #134
davids2toys
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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OK, you win on the knees! I will never own a Cobra!!


I'm not sure what you're implying here, but DO NOT heat that arm while on the steering box. At the least, it'll never retain lubricant again!


I believe I'd feel comfortable with "pretty damned snug" PLUS any additional turn required to insert cotter key. On the drag link castellated nut, I'd feel good with 35-40 PLUS additional turn to the cotter key hole. Insert that taper clean and DRY. DD
The knees are not a contest I am very proud to win! Hows you back? I had lower back surgery a year and a half ago and that came out decent.
If you ever get to CT, I will give you a ride, you might change your mind about the Cobra unless you hate punch in the mouth fast noisy cars...LOL.


I was implying that and now I am straightened out on that...thanks


Thanks for the guess Torque specs. Agree with the 35-40 on the drag link but pretty damn snug is a lot less than 150 ft lbs in my head, sounds more like 80 to me

I guess I will have to do that unless somebody has the the correct specs.

clean and dry....will do
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Old 11-03-2019, 11:57 PM   #135
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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David, I can't give an exact procedure to accomplish what are are trying to do. I have not done this exact swap. Maybe try the hamb also.


Few things to consider:


Changing out the steering box. As posted above.

Bending the steering arm. Mapp gas won't do it, you will need someone experienced with a torch. Even then a 36 stock arm might not be long enough. *** just remember the lower you drop it the more you increase the possibility of the "death wobble". Angles are important.

Shorting the drag link is not a big deal.

Do one thing at a time .

Some nonsense and observations just looking through this thread.



.
I was going to use the 37 longer arm that I just purchased, that is the arm with the bends. I am afraid to ask, What the hell is the "death wobble"???
What does "shorting the drag link" mean?
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:03 AM   #136
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

When changing or lower a vehicle sometimes one or the other needs to be shortened. Usually it's the tie rod not the drag. Both can be shortened, usually the tie rod.


Death wobble is usually associated with raising a vehicle beyond its normal design. But can also be relevant with lowering a vehicle or changing angles in steering to extreme. ...Also loose components. link ends, kingpins, etc. In your instance I wouldn't worry about it till you drive it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncTgYl7P_TE


.

Last edited by Tinker; 11-04-2019 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:15 AM   #137
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

I am not raising or lowering the vehicle?


That video is crazy!!! Do you really think I could get that by just increasing the length of the Pit-man arm and inch?
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:20 AM   #138
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

Nope, I do not. Not too extreme. I was commenting on lower the arm not lengthening it. You will probably need to just adjust the tie linkage later to set toe. No big whoop, just a concept to think about when doing things.

Last edited by Tinker; 11-04-2019 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:47 AM   #139
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

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Nope, I do not. Not too extreme. I was commenting on lower the arm not lengthening it. You will probably need to just adjust the tie linkage later to set toe. No big whoop, just a concept to think about when doing things.
The end result will be the the drag ling end of the Pit-man arm will be a little lower and forward of the oil pan. I would think I would need to adjust the length of the drag link only with no adjustment to the tie rod at all. Am I missing something?
Thanks
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:50 AM   #140
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Default Re: 36 Ford drag link orientation question

If you have enough play on the drag to do so. Then you are good. Might be a combo, should between the two. Hope it all works out well!

Last edited by Tinker; 11-04-2019 at 12:55 AM.
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