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Old 09-26-2019, 04:57 AM   #21
KULTULZ
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Exclamation Re: Just rebuilt transmission

IF one decides to do his own adjustment(s) (especially by the methods being described here) on a trans shop rebuild with warranty, most likely that warranty will be voided.

If it burns, it will be yours.
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 09-26-2019, 06:22 AM   #22
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Default Re: Just rebuilt transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
IF one decides to do his own adjustment(s) (especially by the methods being described here) on a trans shop rebuild with warranty, most likely that warranty will be voided.

If it burns, it will be yours.
I was referencing the idea that the FORD factory manual should be used to make initial adjustments... all of that information is pretty standard stuff for anyone who knows mid-50s Fords.

Automatic transmissions shift on line pressure, we all know that. That pressure is controlled by the adjustment rod that is fastened to the carburetor linkage. Failing to establish Ford's initial adjustment for that rod means that the OP is rolling the dice on shifting, shift points, etc.

If the shop re-installed the transmission and made the initial adjustments then the car ought to be taken straight back to them and the work performed correctly.

If the OP re-installed the transmission then it is up to him to make sure the linkage is adjusted properly before driving. I would be concerned about any transmission shop that did not advise the owner of such things before handing the transmission back. Back in the day before "plug and play" computer controlled units and before the vacuum modulators the fluid pressure was controlled by mechanical linkage. It is assumed that the shop referenced would know that critical information.

However, we are on the internet, things can be cryptic, questions posed with very little backstory, and so... "could someone please pass the popcorn?"

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Old 09-26-2019, 06:39 AM   #23
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Post Re: Just rebuilt transmission

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Originally Posted by Hot Rod Reverend View Post

I was referencing the idea that the FORD factory manual should be used to make initial adjustments... all of that information is pretty standard stuff for anyone who knows mid-50s Fords.

Automatic transmissions shift on line pressure, we all know that. That pressure is controlled by the adjustment rod that is fastened to the carburetor linkage. Failing to establish Ford's initial adjustment for that rod means that the OP is rolling the dice on shifting, shift points, etc.

If the shop re-installed the transmission and made the initial adjustments then the car ought to be taken straight back to them and the work performed correctly.

If the OP re-installed the transmission then it is up to him to make sure the linkage is adjusted properly before driving. I would be concerned about any transmission shop that did not advise the owner of such things before handing the transmission back. Back in the day before "plug and play" computer controlled units and before the vacuum modulators the fluid pressure was controlled by mechanical linkage. It is assumed that the shop referenced would know that critical information.

However, we are on the internet, things can be cryptic, questions posed with very little backstory, and so... "could someone please pass the popcorn?"

Exactly what I am trying to get across. A shop rebuilt the trans in their shop (in chassis yet). If the trans is disturbed in any manner, the warranty will be void if caught by the shop.

Too many recommendations of attempting TV ADJ by linkage alone. The trans (as with an AOD) MAY BURN.

Even if the fluid is changed, it may void the warranty.

It needs to be returned to the shop for shift problems and once out of warranty can it be fooled with without additional cost..
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 09-26-2019, 06:49 AM   #24
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Post Re: Just rebuilt transmission

Quote:
Automatic transmissions shift on line pressure, we all know that.

That pressure is controlled by the adjustment rod that is fastened to the carburetor linkage. Failing to establish Ford's initial adjustment for that rod means that the OP is rolling the dice on shifting, shift points, etc.

Only on TV controlled trans. Modulator valves and electronics are a different story. The TV linkage initial adjustment is only to get the linkages close prior to using a pressure gauge.

The 58 BIRD came through with a test port to assure correct line pressure at the end of the assembly line (with new DUAL-RANGE COM). That is how critical the correct line pressure is.
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 09-26-2019, 08:21 AM   #25
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Default Re: Just rebuilt transmission

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Originally Posted by delco1946 View Post
Well he was certainly old enough i'd say, and transmissions are their bread and butter. Not sure what you mean by overhaul set but they charged labor for a rebuild ( took it apart piece by piece due due the X cross-member underneath). The alternative was pulling the engine out to the tranny out in one piece.

They rebuilt the torque converter, put new seals, some smaller parts (springs?), etc. They said it was in pretty good shape generally, but replaced the rear band which was chewed up/damaged and had to fashion a new one due to parts availability. (I also gave them a MACs catalog just in case but i doubt they saw that either *rolls eyes*).

I don't have the bill in front of me regarding specifics.
the cross member is bolted in this allows removal of trans.not sure how they thought they had to remove piece by piece.the advice on throttle rod adjustment is the way it was (is) done.the old saying B.S.baffles brains I think applies here on their part.good luck
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Old 09-26-2019, 11:55 AM   #26
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Post Re: Just rebuilt transmission

The OP has a BIRD. No removable cross-member. Usually, the engine/trans is pulled as an assembly. It can be done in chassis, but requires breaking the trans down and removing it in sections. If he got the TC out, thay should have been able to put the main case on the bench.

Anyways, it seems the only out is to take it back and have them attempt to adjust the shift points.

I would ask them the name and classification of the ATF explaining you need that for top-off or repair on a road trip. Don't ask them how and why.
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 09-26-2019, 11:55 AM   #27
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Default Re: Just rebuilt transmission

I agree with previous statements about adjustment. There is a problem if it it shifting into high at 40 MPH. Transmission shops should be equipped to check the pressures and they should be the ones to get it right or lick the calf over again. The type of fluid used is likely the least of the worries.

If they don't have the original Ford transmission publications or equivalent, a person might try to get the info and let them read it so they won't try to tell a person otherwise. I had a long working curve with the later cruise-o-matics that had the vacuum modulator of the mid 60s when I started having problems with them. I purchased all the info but a friend of mine who was taught transmission work as a kid by his father helped me shine a better light on these old units. Even the later Ford AOD transmissions were set up to work like the old cruise-o-matics & FMX transmissions since they used the ravigneaux planetary set ups and a TV cable for pressure control just like the old timers.
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Old 09-26-2019, 01:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: Just rebuilt transmission

I appreciate all the adjustment tips, but i paid thousands for a shop to do this repair because I frankly don't want to do it myself and I dont have the space or tools. They said to bring it back for adjustments so that's what ill be doing, i was just curious about what other fordamatics do.

I have all the manuals, but i cant make them read them, unfortunately.

I have a crown victoria, actually. They inspected and said they options were to pull the engine or pull it out in parts from underneath. Regardless its done. I just want to make sure that everything is OK. Keep in mind this is a tranny shop, and they rebuild 1950 trannys, so i have to assume that while what they do isn't specd by Ford, it is a generally accepted practice. That being said, i am planning an politely having them switch fluids to Dexron III as I am losing sleep over this crap (once again i dont have the ability or space) and having them adjust the shifting.

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Old 09-26-2019, 06:21 PM   #29
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Thumbs up Re: Just rebuilt transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by delco1946 View Post

I have a crown victoria, actually. They inspected and said they options were to pull the engine or pull it out in parts from underneath.
Convertible?
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 09-26-2019, 07:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: Just rebuilt transmission

Just tell them what it's doing and they should be able to get an idea of where to start. The governor is in the tail end so it would be the first ting they would get to. There are a number of tests that further narrow the search down.
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Old 09-27-2019, 07:43 AM   #31
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Default Re: Just rebuilt transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by delco1946 View Post
I appreciate all the adjustment tips, but i paid thousands for a shop to do this repair because I frankly don't want to do it myself and I dont have the space or tools. They said to bring it back for adjustments so that's what ill be doing, i was just curious about what other fordamatics do.

I have all the manuals, but i cant make them read them, unfortunately.

I have a crown victoria, actually. They inspected and said they options were to pull the engine or pull it out in parts from underneath. Regardless its done. I just want to make sure that everything is OK. Keep in mind this is a tranny shop, and they rebuild 1950 trannys, so i have to assume that while what they do isn't specd by Ford, it is a generally accepted practice. That being said, i am planning an politely having them switch fluids to Dexron III as I am losing sleep over this crap (once again i dont have the ability or space) and having them adjust the shifting.
After reading through all of the posts from beginning to now, I certainly have some empathy for you. From where I sit, it seems like shop is doing you a dis-service here. The fordomatic can be easily removed from the frame of a 55-56 Ford Crown Victoria, no question, unless someone welded up the transmission cross member or did some other modification. Without a lift and only on floor jacks I have removed that heavy cast iron fordomatic countless times before going with a 3 speed OD unit.

I do not understand why a shop would not be willing to look at original manuals for something this old, no matter what the make. Maybe it's because they believe they have done enough mid-50s Fords they know what they're doing and don't need your resources. (then I refer back to the above paragraph...)

But, I refer back to another post you made concerning a warranty and for their plan to have you bring it back. If they are willing to stand by their work then the results of the rebuild are 100% on them. Take it back and let us know what they find. Since they stand behind their work on the transmission, follow their advice on the fluid, adjustments, etc. If it burns up they will be liable. The remaining decision for you will be how much you are willing to let that ride... (no pun intended). The good thing: these 50s Ford automatics were bullet proof and made with the heaviest parts ol' Henry could find.

We feel for you my friend - hope it turns out ok.
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:50 AM   #32
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Post Re: Just rebuilt transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by delco1946 View Post

(took it apart piece by piece due due the X cross-member underneath).

The alternative was pulling the engine out to the tranny out in one piece.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 54vicky View Post

the cross member is bolted in this allows removal of trans.not sure how they thought they had to remove piece by piece
Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post

The OP has a BIRD. No removable cross-member. Usually, the engine/trans is pulled as an assembly. It can be done in chassis, but requires breaking the trans down and removing it in sections. If he got the TC out, they should have been able to put the main case on the bench.
Quote:
Originally Posted by delco1946 View Post

I have a crown victoria, actually. They inspected and said they options were to pull the engine or pull it out in parts from underneath.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post

Convertible?
Where did I get BIRD? Regardless, the FL CONV also has an X-FRAME which is not removable unless using a hot wrench.

The reason a FOM feels sluggish @ take-off is it has a second gear start (similar to a 2nd gear start with a manual trans - you have to slide the clutch). The convertor slips until engine torque will spin the TC fast enough to fully grab. If it bothers you, pull the gear selector into L and then shift to D when you feel it is moving fast enough. This will eliminate WOT start in first gear.

A clutch pack consists of steel plates and friction discs. They re-used the plates but used new discs.

Also, I wouldn't worry about the fluid as no one has any idea of what was used. Once you discover the fluid used should you make that decision.

IMO only ...
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File Type: jpg Frame - 1955-56 X-Frame.jpg (49.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Capture.jpg (53.1 KB, 1 views)
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...


Last edited by KULTULZ; 09-27-2019 at 11:19 AM. Reason: ADD INFO
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:57 AM   #33
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Question Re: Just rebuilt transmission

... wait a minute ...

1955 CROWN VICTORIA?

Not a convertible?




OK... I'm totally confused ...
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 09-27-2019, 09:52 AM   #34
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Default Re: Just rebuilt transmission

Not a convertible, just a good old fashioned crown. I’m in a slightly better mood now thanks to the passing of time, but you all make a great point to have the shop do everything for warranty purposes. I almost thought about replacing the fluid myself but generally speaking I don’t want to learn about repairs on this car that could really screw it up lol - also I know enough that the torque converter holds fluid too, and would require several fluid replacements or a flushing. Neither which sound fun for me to do!

I was planning the have the same shop detail my engine this winter and pull it, allowing me to ship the power steering unit off for a rebuild. They’ve been very friendly so I need to remember that and try not to come off as an a$#.

I’ll keep you all posted, and thanks!
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Old 09-27-2019, 10:56 AM   #35
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Question Re: Just rebuilt transmission

Quote:
Originally Posted by delco1946 View Post

Not a convertible, just a good old fashioned crown.
... hmmph .

A HDTP with a CONV frame ...
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File Type: jpg FRAME - Sedan - Conv Frames Compared.jpg (46.1 KB, 10 views)
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...


Last edited by KULTULZ; 09-27-2019 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:29 PM   #36
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Default Re: Just rebuilt transmission

When it states used on Sunliner and Victoria frames only, it does make a person scratch their head. It doesn't state Crown Victoria but the Crown Victoria has a heavier built top than the Victoria models. The Victoria was a true open style 2-door hardtop with less roof support. I love those cars. I like them as much as the Crown Victoria. Ford must have felt that they too needed the extra rigidity of the X type frame.
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Old 09-27-2019, 04:09 PM   #37
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Post Re: Just rebuilt transmission

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Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post

When it states used on Sunliner and Victoria frames only, it does make a person scratch their head. It doesn't state Crown Victoria but the Crown Victoria has a heavier built top than the Victoria models. The Victoria was a true open style 2-door hardtop with less roof support. I love those cars. I like them as much as the Crown Victoria. Ford must have felt that they too needed the extra rigidity of the X type frame.
The X-Frame was used on the SUNLINER. SEDANS (incl CROWN) and HDTPS used the same Box-Type frame.

I think what may be happening here is mistaking the SEDAN triangulated Box-type frame for the CONV X-Frame. If the CROWN has the Box-Type frame, I don't see the need to dis-assemble the trans before pulling it.

But, am only causing more anxiety for the OP.
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File Type: jpg FRAME ASSY- 5005 - 1949-56.jpg (62.7 KB, 2 views)
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 09-28-2019, 09:12 AM   #38
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Default Re: Just rebuilt transmission

It's hard to see what the illustration is referring to in the post #35. It must be referring to fittings on the frame in the notes there with the asterisk. Plus it's referring to Sunliner in the boxed frame portion of the illustration. That is where my confusion was coming from.

It was mostly only the convertibles that received the X type frames historically. Earlier 49 to 51 Mercs had X-frames with K-members on all the cars but Fords were different so there are exceptions. Only the Ford convertible had them among Fords in those years.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 09-28-2019 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 09-28-2019, 10:40 AM   #39
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Post Re: Just rebuilt transmission

Below is a better ILL -
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-04-2019, 10:33 AM   #40
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Default Re: Just rebuilt transmission

Just an update. I called to schedule an appt to do the adjustments. Mentioned the biggest issues of delayed shifting and feeling like it was slipping from a stand still ( engine rpms was no longer directly related to the vehicles speed- gassing it and the vehicle would just barely accelerate). I also asked to change from tractor oil to dexron 3. First they said they used dexron 3 after all which is not what they said originally. It was red so at least it was some sort of tranny fluid instead of oil so that was good. My friend was with me originally and also confirmed that they said tractor oil so Iíll chalk that up to misspeaking on their part. Could of saved me the heart attack but oh well.

They did the adjustments and it is working much better now. They also took the converter out and completely dissembled it to to make sure no damage was done from slipping which was unexpected but nice. Whatever they did, itís much quieter now and shifts usually in the 27 to 37 range depending on how much I gas it. Put 200 miles on it this weekend and all seems well . Very happy with the result. And Hopefully Iíll be able to scrub the grease stains out of the carpet
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