The Ford Barn

ryanheacox · 05-26-2015, 07:15 PM

For the past week or so, I've noticed the motometer climbing more and more into the red. Naturally, I attributed it to the climbing summer temps and thought little of it. Around this time, I also started noticing that the water level in the radiator kept dropping, consistently taking a quart or two to bring the level up over the tubes after a good run.

Earlier today, after I got back from a drive, I opened the cap to check/add water and it blew up in my face, it was foam not scalding water though still very unpleasant

. I waited for the engine to cool and did a compression test. From front to back the readings were 58-60-45-60. I'm assuming the head gasket is leaking into the water jacket on No.3? I replaced the head gasket almost 2 years ago exactly, shouldn't they last longer than that?

Kurt in NJ · 05-26-2015, 07:32 PM

If the head and block surfaces have problems a headgasket won't last ---as to how long the gasket should last ?? I put a used gasket on my car 30 years ago, torqued it with the tool kit wrench ---perhaps the new gaskets aren't as good as the old ones with real asbestos

if you fill the radiator to the top (block off overflow temp), crank with ignition off and it bubbles over you hace a combustion chamber to coolant leak---if you take out the plugs, then put one in, change cylinders-- you can see which cylinder leaks

Tinker · 05-26-2015, 08:04 PM

If you are not going to rebuild... Which maybe My or others suggestions. Hell it maybe time. Then pull the head, do a complete clean and check of cracks. Then new head gasket, Indian head and wait a few days. Re torque then drive it. We can't all be gold chainers

ryanheacox · 05-26-2015, 08:32 PM

A friend of mine can resurface the head so I think I'm going to try that. I ordered all the gaskets I need, hopefully I can get this patched up before we're scheduled to leave for VT next Friday.

Tom Wesenberg · 05-26-2015, 09:45 PM

While the head is off be sure to make sure the coolant chamber is clean, especially by the rear 2 cylinders, where junk likes to collect. I made up a blow gun with a long thin copper pipe to get into tight places. It's soft copper so I can even bend it if I need to.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 05-26-2015, 11:10 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Trust me, Ryan,
Very shortly after doing a head gasket, be sure to backflush the cooling system, to get rid of rust flakes that end up in the top ends of the radiator tubes. AND, if you go poking around in the water jackets, backflush it AGAIN, after driving for 50 to 100 miles. Rust flakes stuck in the top of the radiator tubes are the MOST COMMON CAUSE of Model A radiator problems. Those old blocks & heads seem to "MANUFACTURE" RUST FLAKES!
Our guys that BACKFLUSH twice a year, almost never have problems!
There's always that age old question: "Did the head gasket blow & cause it to OVERHEAT, or, did it OVERHEAT & cause the head gasket to blow"???
Bought a '59 Studewhacker Lark, 6 Cyl that apparently just had a head gasket replaced, under 50 MPH, ran OK, over 50 MPH it would gradually OVERHEAT! The upper ends of the radiator tubes had CURLY Q scrapings from scraping the block & some rust flakes! Removed the thermostat so I could backflush it & after that, it would run perfect, even at 75 to 80 MPH! Yes, I put the same thermostat BACK IN!
Bill W.

ryanheacox · 05-27-2015, 08:05 AM

Thanks for the advice Tom and Bill. I haven't yet because we have had some cold nights but every year when I switch back to distilled water I back flush the system just to be safe. I was thinking about trying out that evaporust block cleaner but before a week or so ago, the car would run 50MPH for miles without even showing red on the motometer so I may just leave well enough alone. I know it's a case of chicken and the egg Bill but in this case I'm almost positive the head gasket blew because the head isn't perfectly flat. I'm assuming driving it anywhere would be a poor idea at this point?

BILL WILLIAMSON · 05-27-2015, 09:00 AM

I wouldn't drive it, Ryan,
Don't want to get more coolant in the oil!!
Quick check for water in the oil: Hold the dipstick on a 45 degree angle, with a drop of oil hangin' on the end, heat the drop with a match. If it sparkles & "pops", there's water in it. If NO water, it'll just burn yellow, with BLACK smoke!
Minervas' first indication of a gasket leak was some loss of coolant & then picked up a momentary, 2 cylinder miss, on cold start up. Gasket DIDN'T look too bad, But just below the top of #3 & #4 bore, I saw round "etched" spots, where drops of water had clung & left their "CALLING CARDS"
Bill W.

Mitch//pa · 05-27-2015, 09:11 AM

just crack the drain plug loose a hair if there is water it will come out in the first drip...
no forensic lab needed

BILL WILLIAMSON · 05-27-2015, 09:42 AM

Is a MATCH considered a "FORENSIC LAB"??
Dad W.

Mitch//pa · 05-27-2015, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Is a MATCH considered a "FORENSIC LAB"??
Dad W.

yes they use matches quite often there

sooonoout

ryanheacox · 05-27-2015, 10:00 PM

Well, took the head off and in addition to being not quite flat, there were two cracks, the locations are shown in the picture in the link.
Crack locations- http://postimg.org/image/y6o6dtg3p/

My friend had a few heads that I was going to use but we found cracks in both of them as well...

I was thinking about biting the bullet and buying a 5.5 head, I would buy one with less compression but that seems to be the lowest compression brand new head I can buy.I would have peace of mind buying a brand new head. I'm currently working on getting the studs out, I have 4 left that don't want to move, currently soaking in PB blaster. Does anyone have opinions on the HC head? I know I'll have to be more careful about the amount of advance and that I probably won't have the signature Model A idle anymore.

05-26-2015, 07:15 PM	#1
ryanheacox Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Northwest CT Posts: 1,092	Leaking Head Gasket? For the past week or so, I've noticed the motometer climbing more and more into the red. Naturally, I attributed it to the climbing summer temps and thought little of it. Around this time, I also started noticing that the water level in the radiator kept dropping, consistently taking a quart or two to bring the level up over the tubes after a good run. Earlier today, after I got back from a drive, I opened the cap to check/add water and it blew up in my face, it was foam not scalding water though still very unpleasant . I waited for the engine to cool and did a compression test. From front to back the readings were 58-60-45-60. I'm assuming the head gasket is leaking into the water jacket on No.3? I replaced the head gasket almost 2 years ago exactly, shouldn't they last longer than that?

05-26-2015, 07:32 PM	#2
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: Leaking Head Gasket? If the head and block surfaces have problems a headgasket won't last ---as to how long the gasket should last ?? I put a used gasket on my car 30 years ago, torqued it with the tool kit wrench ---perhaps the new gaskets aren't as good as the old ones with real asbestos if you fill the radiator to the top (block off overflow temp), crank with ignition off and it bubbles over you hace a combustion chamber to coolant leak---if you take out the plugs, then put one in, change cylinders-- you can see which cylinder leaks

05-26-2015, 09:45 PM	#5
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Leaking Head Gasket? While the head is off be sure to make sure the coolant chamber is clean, especially by the rear 2 cylinders, where junk likes to collect. I made up a blow gun with a long thin copper pipe to get into tight places. It's soft copper so I can even bend it if I need to.

05-26-2015, 11:10 PM	#6
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Leaking Head Gasket? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Trust me, Ryan, Very shortly after doing a head gasket, be sure to backflush the cooling system, to get rid of rust flakes that end up in the top ends of the radiator tubes. AND, if you go poking around in the water jackets, backflush it AGAIN, after driving for 50 to 100 miles. Rust flakes stuck in the top of the radiator tubes are the MOST COMMON CAUSE of Model A radiator problems. Those old blocks & heads seem to "MANUFACTURE" RUST FLAKES! Our guys that BACKFLUSH twice a year, almost never have problems! There's always that age old question: "Did the head gasket blow & cause it to OVERHEAT, or, did it OVERHEAT & cause the head gasket to blow"??? Bought a '59 Studewhacker Lark, 6 Cyl that apparently just had a head gasket replaced, under 50 MPH, ran OK, over 50 MPH it would gradually OVERHEAT! The upper ends of the radiator tubes had CURLY Q scrapings from scraping the block & some rust flakes! Removed the thermostat so I could backflush it & after that, it would run perfect, even at 75 to 80 MPH! Yes, I put the same thermostat BACK IN! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

05-27-2015, 08:05 AM	#7
ryanheacox Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Northwest CT Posts: 1,092	Re: Leaking Head Gasket? Thanks for the advice Tom and Bill. I haven't yet because we have had some cold nights but every year when I switch back to distilled water I back flush the system just to be safe. I was thinking about trying out that evaporust block cleaner but before a week or so ago, the car would run 50MPH for miles without even showing red on the motometer so I may just leave well enough alone. I know it's a case of chicken and the egg Bill but in this case I'm almost positive the head gasket blew because the head isn't perfectly flat. I'm assuming driving it anywhere would be a poor idea at this point?

05-26-2015, 08:04 PM	#3
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Leaking Head Gasket? If you are not going to rebuild... Which maybe My or others suggestions. Hell it maybe time. Then pull the head, do a complete clean and check of cracks. Then new head gasket, Indian head and wait a few days. Re torque then drive it. We can't all be gold chainers

05-26-2015, 08:32 PM	#4
ryanheacox Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Northwest CT Posts: 1,092	Re: Leaking Head Gasket? A friend of mine can resurface the head so I think I'm going to try that. I ordered all the gaskets I need, hopefully I can get this patched up before we're scheduled to leave for VT next Friday.

05-27-2015, 09:00 AM	#8
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Leaking Head Gasket? I wouldn't drive it, Ryan, Don't want to get more coolant in the oil!! Quick check for water in the oil: Hold the dipstick on a 45 degree angle, with a drop of oil hangin' on the end, heat the drop with a match. If it sparkles & "pops", there's water in it. If NO water, it'll just burn yellow, with BLACK smoke! Minervas' first indication of a gasket leak was some loss of coolant & then picked up a momentary, 2 cylinder miss, on cold start up. Gasket DIDN'T look too bad, But just below the top of #3 & #4 bore, I saw round "etched" spots, where drops of water had clung & left their "CALLING CARDS" Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF" Last edited by BILL WILLIAMSON; 05-27-2015 at 09:18 AM.

05-27-2015, 09:11 AM	#9
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Leaking Head Gasket? just crack the drain plug loose a hair if there is water it will come out in the first drip... no forensic lab needed

05-27-2015, 09:42 AM	#10
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Leaking Head Gasket? Is a MATCH considered a "FORENSIC LAB"?? Dad W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

05-27-2015, 10:00 PM	#12
ryanheacox Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Northwest CT Posts: 1,092	Re: Leaking Head Gasket? Well, took the head off and in addition to being not quite flat, there were two cracks, the locations are shown in the picture in the link. Crack locations- http://postimg.org/image/y6o6dtg3p/ My friend had a few heads that I was going to use but we found cracks in both of them as well... I was thinking about biting the bullet and buying a 5.5 head, I would buy one with less compression but that seems to be the lowest compression brand new head I can buy.I would have peace of mind buying a brand new head. I'm currently working on getting the studs out, I have 4 left that don't want to move, currently soaking in PB blaster. Does anyone have opinions on the HC head? I know I'll have to be more careful about the amount of advance and that I probably won't have the signature Model A idle anymore.