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Old 10-15-2019, 03:22 PM   #1
john charlton
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Default USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

A friend has sent me pictures of a 3" small bore head gasket .This fits the English AF car . The puzzle is that it is marked" VICTOR 725 Made in USA" This engine was not available in USA seems odd that it is of USA manufacture . Mainly the AF was sold in UK, France and Japan .

John in same weather Suffolk County England .
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

Why would the AF be sold in France and Japan? I thought it was to get around British tax laws, like America disagreed with, to stop everyone in Britain driving blower Bentleys and creating climate change?
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:45 AM   #3
Tudortomnz
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

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Originally Posted by john charlton View Post
A friend has sent me pictures of a 3" small bore head gasket .This fits the English AF car . The puzzle is that it is marked" VICTOR 725 Made in USA" This engine was not available in USA seems odd that it is of USA manufacture . Mainly the AF was sold in UK, France and Japan .

John in same weather Suffolk County England .
John, here in New Zealand in '60's & '70's [maybe earlier] std. A head gaskets were marked CG 'Made in England' & one I have has a Ford script.
These were the normal 'big bore' which surely had a very limited market in UK? I also have old unopened wheel bearings & seals, made in Britain & Argentina for Model A's. Lots of A's still on the road every day then.
Cheers.
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Old 10-16-2019, 05:23 AM   #4
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

During the twenties and before the UK was being flooded with cheap high quality American cars . The Ford model T dominated the home market with 50% of all car sales . The home manufacturers were hurting so lobbied the government to take protectionist action . The "horse power tax" was introduced which put swingeing road taxes on engines over 15 HP .Ford countered this by introducing the 14.9 HP AF engine ,just under the limit . The car was not a success so Ford brought out the 8 HP model "Y" car which was a total success and shot Morris and Austin etc etc etc in the foot .Commercial vehicles were exempt from the tax so many 24 HP engines were in use hence English made 24 HP gaskets . France and other countries had similar tax laws .

John in autumnal weather Suffolk County England .

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Old 10-23-2019, 03:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

My McCord Gasket Guide (Detroit Mich) lists the Export Model AF 1928-31 head gasket
AF-6051.

Manuel in Oz
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Old 10-23-2019, 12:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

Thanks Manuel looks like American gasket makers were on the ball regarding export sales !!!

John in West Drayton London England .
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Old 10-23-2019, 04:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

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Originally Posted by Tudortomnz View Post
John, here in New Zealand in '60's & '70's [maybe earlier] std. A head gaskets were marked CG 'Made in England' & one I have has a Ford script.
These were the normal 'big bore' which surely had a very limited market in UK? I also have old unopened wheel bearings & seals, made in Britain & Argentina for Model A's. Lots of A's still on the road every day then.
Cheers.
A few years ago, I bought a gear box which I'm sure hadn't been tampered with since new. it had been through a bush fire. The gears, shafts etc were as soft as cheese. I had them all rehardened and ressembled it with new bearings. I noticed that all of the old bearings were Italian. Did Henry source bearings from Italy?
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Old 10-23-2019, 10:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

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A few years ago, I bought a gear box which I'm sure hadn't been tampered with since new. it had been through a bush fire. The gears, shafts etc were as soft as cheese. I had them all rehardened and ressembled it with new bearings. I noticed that all of the old bearings were Italian. Did Henry source bearings from Italy?
Syncro, no Henry did not have off shore suppliers. He screwed down local suppliers to get lowest price. Some 'foreign' [eg. Australian] assembled Model A's did contain a certain amount of local sourced items, but this only complied local govt content requirements. Basically, no one could guarantee lowest supply costs than that directly procured by Ford US or Canada.
The parts ex Argentina & Britain I mentioned were after market items & were often made in places that still had many Model A's on the road or the industry to make & supply demand . Here in NZ, old stock A parts were still to be found in Ford Dealers up to early '60's but often dumped or sold off cheaply then or earlier. After this, the foreign made parts started to appear. Cheers
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Old 10-24-2019, 02:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

In the mid 70's you could buy a whole boot load of new parts from Argentina for $100.

PS. In 1975
1 $A = $US 1.34
today
1 $A = $US 0.68

however
1975 1 $A = GBP 0.58
today 1 $A = GBP 0.53
So it looks like we are sinking with Brexit.

Last edited by updraught; 10-24-2019 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 10-24-2019, 03:10 AM   #10
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

I have read (though never seen the primary source) that the 3" small bore engine was listed on early Canadian Parts Lists.- Can any one confirm??
Perhaps early on McCord thought there might be a market in Canada?
And, whilst we're at it , where did the small bore engines for Japan come from ??? Were they shipped out of Cork unmachined? or ready machined from Trafford Park?, or somewhere else ?? I assume that small bore was developed in the USA and the patterns shipped across the Atlantic to the Cork foundry and Trafford Park
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Old 10-24-2019, 03:40 AM   #11
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

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Originally Posted by johnbuckley View Post
I have read (though never seen the primary source) that the 3" small bore engine was listed on early Canadian Parts Lists.- Can any one confirm??
Perhaps early on McCord thought there might be a market in Canada?
And, whilst we're at it , where did the small bore engines for Japan come from ??? Were they shipped out of Cork unmachined? or ready machined from Trafford Park?, or somewhere else ?? I assume that small bore was developed in the USA and the patterns shipped across the Atlantic to the Cork foundry and Trafford Park
An interesting topic, John.
Yes, Ford Canada did offer small bore engines for export but we can only speculate where they [engine blocks] originated.
Among Ford Canada Export records are listed shipments to Singapore of the small bore in cars, also maybe to the odd E. Africa country. The std bore cars also went to Singapore, but they probably had some hp. tax like Europe. There was a working connection between Ford Canada & Britain so maybe that is where the engines were coming from . Ford Japan was supplied by the US, so could it be that Ford US was producing the small bore also for export?? Yokohama factory was a new full assembly facility [ a youtube video exists ] & they would have been capable of engine machining . My hunch is that the small bores came from Cork. Cheers.
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

I just checked the September 1930 parts book from Yokohama. There are no AF parts listed anywhere in the parts book. Here is the listing for cylinder head gasket, for example (highlighted by blue arrow) with only the A engine gasket listed:


However, looking at the Ford "Export Dealer" parts price list from the Ford Motor Company of Canada from September 1930, it clearly lists AF parts, including AF head gaskets (see the blue arrow again). This catalog was for Nepal (between India and China for the geographically challenged):



The March 1931 Ford parts book from Czechoslovakia also lists AF parts including the AF head gasket. Model A's, AF's and their parts for Czechoslovakia were supplied from Germany:




Brad in Maryland
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Last edited by Brad in Germany; 10-24-2019 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

Talk about obscure Ford literature....I like it!
Other than on this post, I had never read that Japan got the small bore. There are a couple of Jap assembled Model A's here in NZ but have never seen of them.
Model A's in Nepal? In that era, there was NO road or rail link from India to Kathmandu. Everything ended up being carried up through the Himalayas to the Kathmandu valley. What few cars got there were partly disassembled & carried by Sherpa's. There is a 1932 V8 Phaeton here in NZ now that was taken into Nepal from India by this method. Only the Royal family & those well connected there would have had a car. Those parts books must be priceless. Cheers.
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Old 10-25-2019, 03:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

Yes here's pic a taken in Katmandu in the early 70s. There was also another Model A frame and a Delage in the garage too . Some transport challenge to get them there. As you say, no airlift, no roads, no rail -Sherpas only.
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

Great shot of the garage scene. Wish I had known in mid '78 when I dragged myself to Nepal via India [the old hippy trail!] but the only old vehicles I saw were the charming 'Swiss Buses ' going to Pokhara. Virtually no private cars there then.
The '32 V8 that I have seen from there was restored in Kathmandu by local mechanics & looks as you would expect a new one to be ; not over done or laden with any accessories as we usually see. Still has Nepalese number plate. Cheers.
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Old 10-25-2019, 06:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: USA Victor AF small bore gasket .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tudortomnz View Post
An interesting topic, John.
Yes, Ford Canada did offer small bore engines for export but we can only speculate where they [engine blocks] originated.
Among Ford Canada Export records are listed shipments to Singapore of the small bore in cars, also maybe to the odd E. Africa country. The std bore cars also went to Singapore, but they probably had some hp. tax like Europe. There was a working connection between Ford Canada & Britain so maybe that is where the engines were coming from . Ford Japan was supplied by the US, so could it be that Ford US was producing the small bore also for export?? Yokohama factory was a new full assembly facility [ a youtube video exists ] & they would have been capable of engine machining . My hunch is that the small bores came from Cork. Cheers.
If that is so, it might explain the Japanese made carburettor I have. It looks just like the zenith but has a plate rivetted to the front and appears to have been painted a deep burgundy colour. Or is it a Japanese made copy sold by vendors years ago?
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