Condenser

[adileo]

Hi gents

I was just reading about the guy with the pickup wanting to go electronic.

My 39 has a Bubba helmet (skip coil) converted to an 11A. Probably 3-4 years old now and about 7k miles. Car is running great.

Couple questions (stock 6 volt):
- based on Bubba suggestion (a while back) I switched from Napa ih200 to rr175. What’s typical life on condenser?
- what’s typical life of points & rotor?
- correct to assume changing point and rotor will not change my timing set by Bubba?

BTW my issue with car missing at high rpms. I pulled plugs cleaned and re-gapped. Also took both k&n air cleaners off cleaned and put back. Not sure which corrected issue but high rpm miss no longer an issue

[tubman]

I "tuned up" my '51 when I got it in 1987. I used Echlin points and condenser from NAPA. I changed the engine two years ago because it started making a funny noise. At that time, the condenser and points were still functioning perfectly. That's 30 years and over 20,000 miles. In my experience, caps and rotors seem to last forever in these cars.

[JSeery]

Remember the days when almost every tune-up included changing out the points and condenser? Just think how many quality built and still functional points/condensers ended up in the trash! I remember pulling many points sets that looked like new.

[adileo]

Tubman
Jerry

Thanks. Now I understand why Bubba guarantees his distributors for life.

Still curious with these helmets timing is not affected removing and re-installing? If I recall there was an timing adjustment (degrees) on side as long as that not mucked with all good?

[A bones]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Remember the days when almost every tune-up included changing out the points and condenser? Just think how many quality built and still functional points/condensers ended up in the trash! I remember pulling many points sets that looked like new.

Amen...

[4dFord/SC]

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Originally Posted by adileo

Still curious with these helmets timing is not affected removing and re-installing? If I recall there was an timing adjustment (degrees) on side as long as that not mucked with all good?

The ends of the distributor shaft and the camshaft are machined with an offset so that there is only one correct way to install the distributor.

[deuce_roadster]

The problem with condensers is that the ones made today are nowhere near the quality of the ones like in 1987 when tubman got his 51. Some still seem to have some QC but the FA 49 you may have to buy 10 of them to get 1 or 2 within specs.

[tubman]

OR.. You could go with one of my Big Brass Condensers that mount externally. I have had a bunch of these in the field for the last three years with no failures. Plus, they add an old time "Hot Rod" ignition look.

[woodiewagon46]

There is a very in-depth article in the Sept./Oct. issue of the V-8 Times on condensers. It's way to technical for me, using coil testers, high voltage probes on vacuum tube voltmeters and other equipment. It goes on to say that any time stock coils are replaced with modern coils, condenser value is "hit or miss". Nowhere on a modern replacement coil will you find the inductance value. The same goes for condensers. The formula for the value of a condenser is very complicated and impossible without exact values of all the electronics in an ignition. Add to this is that most of the condensers that we get from foreign countries are junk and true values can be all over the map.

[flatheadmurre]

If the value of the condensor is off a bit just makes the metal migrate between the points faster and wear out a bit sooner...so that´s not the real problem with the modern no name surprise parts.
The thing is that they are so poorly made they either go open or arc over and short out...which is instant failure...
With the mileage most put on the vehicles i would worry less about value and more about quality...
Tubmans condensors is the quality you look for...made in USA by someone that actually cares !

[34fordy]

[QUOTE=woodiewagon46;1777888]There is a very in-depth article in the Sept./Oct. issue of the V-8 Times on condensers.

What year would that be? Thank you

[tubman]

Originally Posted by woodiewagon46

There is a very in-depth article in the Sept./Oct. issue of the V-8 Times on condensers. It's way to technical for me, using coil testers, high voltage probes on vacuum tube voltmeters and other equipment. It goes on to say that any time stock coils are replaced with modern coils, condenser value is "hit or miss". Nowhere on a modern replacement coil will you find the inductance value. The same goes for condensers. The formula for the value of a condenser is very complicated and impossible without exact values of all the electronics in an ignition. Add to this is that most of the condensers that we get from foreign countries are junk and true values can be all over the map.

I agree with all of the above. However, when you get down to brass tacks, just about all modern condensers are in the low .2xx micro-farad range. I have to believe that this is the value that works with most contemporary coils. Therefore, I build my condensers with .22 micro-farad severe duty film capacitors that are compatible with currently available coils.

I have been working on a .33 micro-farad unit, because it seems that might be required with dual point systems (twice as much point material to protect so more capacitance is needed). However, after a two year, 3000 mile test on the Mallory dual-point in my '51, the .33 micro-farad unit experienced buildup on the points that indicated an over-capacitance condition. For now, it seems that a .22 micro-farad condenser is the ticket for current point ignition systems. If you have the test equipment to determine different, go with it. Otherwise, read the points after several thousand miles, and perhaps I can come up with something special for you.

[woodiewagon46]

Sorry 34, the Issue is from 2014.

[deuce_roadster]

Tubman, I like your condensers, can you make ones that work with the 32-41 distributors that look stock? I have 1 concourse car where that would matter.
I do have a Harmon Collins distributor but already have good condensers.
Great that you are manufacturing these, thanks.

[tubman]

"deuce" - The big problem is that a capacitor robust enough to handle everything that we can throw at it tends to be quite large. They have to withstand voltage spikes, high temperatures, and have a high dv/dt rating. (That is the ability to be able to withstand many changes in voltage over a relatively short period of time.) We have found a .22 micro-farad unit that fulfills our requirements, but are still looking for a .33 unit. If you have a stock 32-41 condenser that is no good, we may be able to put one of our capacitors inside it. Could you provide me with a picture of one and some basic dimensions? We may be able to do something. (As you probably know, I'm an "8BA guy".)

[deuce_roadster]

The earlier condensers look to be much smaller in diameter (about 1/2" guess without measuring) with various mounting ways then yours. Probably too small to meet specs with good modern materials like you use. PM me your email address and I will send you some pictures Wednesday with good measurements.

[tubman]

"deuce" - PM sent.

[Bob NH]

How would a person go about testing a suspect condenser ?

[tubman]

There are condenser testers on the market, but they are kinda expensive. Even if you had one, you would have to heat cycle the condenser several times over a fairly long period to get any real reading on what is actually going on.